Recent crime wave downtown and near downtown

[lilpup]

The leaders can't accomplish much if the people don't support them and follow their lead once they're elected to office.

The NIMBY attitude is high in Detroit - clean it up but don't touch MY backyard.

[DJ Tom T]

Actually, no we don't, because those of us who want to be part of the revitalization but happen to LOOK like some of those being complained about do NOT want to end up like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abner_Louima
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amadou_Diallo_shooting

There are other ways to remake the city besides in the image of Giuliani-era New York. Let's try to work and find them. He isn't the only person who's ever turned a city around, you know.

Actually I think downtown can benefit from SOME of the Giuliani style. Obviously not all of it, but there's enough history now to know what the good parts of that approach were. Take those & apply them. Manhattan is COMPLETELY different today than it was back then - in a good way. Detroit can use some of that.

**Disclaimer before everyone questions my "cred" - I've been living downtown for over 13 years now.**

[JohnnyFreddy]

The only thing I have to report is a few weeks back some kids got held up at gunpoint for their cash, phones, and weed at Forest and 3rd st in midtown. Also, a bunch of tires got slashed on my block last week

Oh yes..the infamous 'Third Ave. Party Store' ...also known as 'The Smash'n'Grab'.
That Party store has been known for decades as THE place to get robbed.
Always be cautious there, as the proprietors like to hide behind their bullet proof
glass and let the outside world, and their customers take care of it/themselves.
And yes I agree...the warmer months definitely bring out the idiots whom choose
to make their living robbing, and just generally stealing, what doesn't belong to them.
I've often said in the past, "These people's Mamma's didn't raise them right!!"
Look around you before you get out of your car. Have your keys ready/ your
mace ready. Attach your 'Club' to your steering wheel. Lock your doors at night,
and turn on your porch light. Remind your visitors to be cautious when visiting.
Isn't it just great, that we have to take so many precautions to be safe.
Isn't it hard enough just living day to day, and trying to be happy as well.
Why does this perpetuity of ignorance, have to be handed down generation to
generation, rather than a learning curve at some point, allowing people to smile,
and love, and enjoy...and NOT at the expense of OUR expense.
Stinking, laughing Hyenas the lot of them...and if you're friends with one or more..
..knowingly, than you're just as rotten as they are, and should be deeply ashamed
to call yourself human and decent.
Amen.

[JohnnyFreddy]

While homicides are up in the city, the claim that all violent crime is up citywide is simply false. The following is a quote from a recent detnews article:

"For the first quarter, violent crimes — including rape, robbery and aggravated assault — dropped 13.4 percent, while property crimes including auto theft fell 12.6 percent.
Through April 17, there were 1,147 fewer assaults, 874 fewer burglaries, 32 fewer rapes and 306 fewer robberies compared to the same time in 2010, according to the figures compiled beyond the first quarter.
That appears to follow a trend reported by FBI crime statistics on Detroit released in December, which showed a 7.9 percent decrease in violent crime in the first half of 2010 compared to 2009.


From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110427/...#ixzz1Lu7TDaa7


Overall, If you dont go looking for crime it rarely finds you. While I do feel bad for the woman in corktown that is not the norm, usually criminal incidents happen to those out late at night or who are at places like gas stations, liquor stores, etc. during the dark. This is true for Detroit and the burbs. Crime does hit the innocent, but the majority of incidents happen to those either looking for it or going somewhere late at night.

Bulls@#t!! We, as free American citizens, should be able to go WHERE we want, WHEN we want,
and not be relegated to times or dates, OR locations. We should not allow ourselves to be
pigeon holed to ANY format presented by the criminals of this society..this city.
If the police can't police, and the leaders of this city can't lead...then we most certainly should
take matters into our own hands, and rebel against those whom choose to become our enemy
by deciding to take rather than give, to steal rather than buy, to be worthless rather than worthy.
An armed rebellion may be in order. Sound desperate...crazy? You damned right it is.

[Kell31]

Crime in Detroit won't be a problem to Bham until he has some of that crime spill over into Bham.

[SWMAP]

I agree that the stats are down and some of the results are just due to the bureaucracy effect. Go to the precinct. wait. Give report. Leave and never hear back.

My car was broken into last week. I never even thought of making a report. But I was assaulted by an insane neighbor on Good Friday who attacked me on my porch and spit at me. She has a history of arrest for assault and battery. I did make a police report about that and never heard anything else. I followed up last week and was told that no investigation would occur because assailant is mentally ill [[who decided that?). So, I guess it didn't happen because of mental illness.

[Det_ard]

I mean, what do people propose we do with the criminal [[or criminal prone) element that wouldn't interfere with their basic human rights, free will, and freedom of movement? Should we lock them up before they commit violent crimes? We tried doing that for a couple of decades, and Detroit still has a crime problem. Did mandatory sentencing work?

One of the most unhelpful things that people say in conversations like these is "oh, it's the parents" or "it's the schools." Yes, it's parents, schools, a lack of jobs, and a culture of corruption. Sure thing, bingo, and now you're captain of the obvious. But what the hell do people propose we do with thousands, perhaps even tens of thousands of people who don't WANT to go back to school, no matter what incentives there are? Or hold down a 9-to-5? I could list a few dozen people I know, again, some in my extended family, who will NEVER hold down a regular job because they refuse to get up in the mornings.

We don't want to have to force people to do anything, and you can't lock up people pre-emptively -- this is not the [[B-) movie Minority Report. So what on earth do you DO?

My dear, this is not complacency -- it's called "despair" and "helplessness."

If someone wants to veg out on the couch for the rest of their life, fine by me. It's their life, their choice. Where it becomes an issue for me is when their choice to be a layabout requires my subsidization through any of the numerous government assistance programs. Now their choice to be lazy is costing the working person. If they have some way to slack off for the rest of their life and they're not relying on the public to enable them, have at it.

Now, if they should decide to acquire the means to be a perma-slug by some criminal activity, prison with hard labor is in order.

[Fnemecek]

The leaders can't accomplish much if the people don't support them and follow their lead once they're elected to office.

When has anyone made a serious attempt at dealing with crime in Detroit?

[SWMAP]

As with the public schools - day-to-day operations at 1300 Beaubien must be all about manipulating bad news statistics to look like good news to the Feds.
Lately i have thought about writing to the President and saying that its a lot worse in Detroit than he knows or is being told. It is a lot worse here now and all the indicators are that its going to get worse than this. Four thousand more Wayne County homes went into foreclosure this spring for unpaid taxes. Most of those are in Detroit. Going down faster and faster.

[iheartthed]

There are other ways to remake the city besides in the image of Giuliani-era New York. Let's try to work and find them. He isn't the only person who's ever turned a city around, you know.

I think people really attribute too much to Giuliani. He certainly paid attention to crime in NYC -- and rightly so, though some of his mistakes were unforgivable -- but the city began to "turnaround" well before the crime rates came down.

In the 1980s, "gentrification" was a term that was already in common use by the media regarding NYC neighborhoods, and NYC's population began to rebound a full decade before the murder rate hit its high water mark in the early 1990s. Giuliani's task of bringing down crime rates would have been magnitudes harder -- a la Detroit -- if he didn't have those things working in his favor already.

I think the current mayor is much more accurate in assessing what "saved" New York. He attributes NYC's rebound to refocusing on urban amenities that had been left to decline such as transit and public spaces, as well as keeping a handle on crime.

[j to the jeremy]

Oh yes..the infamous 'Third Ave. Party Store' ...also known as 'The Smash'n'Grab'.
That Party store has been known for decades as THE place to get robbed.
Always be cautious there, as the proprietors like to hide behind their bullet proof
glass and let the outside world, and their customers take care of it/themselves.
And yes I agree...the warmer months definitely bring out the idiots whom choose
to make their living robbing, and just generally stealing, what doesn't belong to them.
I've often said in the past, "These people's Mamma's didn't raise them right!!"
Look around you before you get out of your car. Have your keys ready/ your
mace ready. Attach your 'Club' to your steering wheel. Lock your doors at night,
and turn on your porch light. Remind your visitors to be cautious when visiting.
Isn't it just great, that we have to take so many precautions to be safe.
Isn't it hard enough just living day to day, and trying to be happy as well.
Why does this perpetuity of ignorance, have to be handed down generation to
generation, rather than a learning curve at some point, allowing people to smile,
and love, and enjoy...and NOT at the expense of OUR expense.
Stinking, laughing Hyenas the lot of them...and if you're friends with one or more..
..knowingly, than you're just as rotten as they are, and should be deeply ashamed
to call yourself human and decent.
Amen.

Well, the store isn't as bad as it has been. I've lived over there for a few years and they still have a lot of sketchy people there, but it's by and large a friendly experience. I know for a fact that the owner is good friends with the WSU PD and the block has been helped by the late night foot traffic at the Little Asia Mart, 3rd St. Bar, and the year-round student population.

The areas where you're going to get robbed are down Third, across from the failed 9 on 3rd development. That's where I've known people to get mugged.

[pffft]

If someone wants to veg out on the couch for the rest of their life, fine by me. It's their life, their choice. Where it becomes an issue for me is when their choice to be a layabout requires my subsidization through any of the numerous government assistance programs. Now their choice to be lazy is costing the working person. If they have some way to slack off for the rest of their life and they're not relying on the public to enable them, have at it.

Now, if they should decide to acquire the means to be a perma-slug by some criminal activity, prison with hard labor is in order.

I have to agree. Since when did any of us get to choose NOT to get up in the morning to go to a job?

[epiphany]

I agree that the stats are down and some of the results are just due to the bureaucracy effect. Go to the precinct. wait. Give report. Leave and never hear back.

My car was broken into last week. I never even thought of making a report. But I was assaulted by an insane neighbor on Good Friday who attacked me on my porch and spit at me. She has a history of arrest for assault and battery. I did make a police report about that and never heard anything else. I followed up last week and was told that no investigation would occur because assailant is mentally ill [[who decided that?). So, I guess it didn't happen because of mental illness.

The *exact* same thing happened to me. An insane neighbor threatened to bash my head in with a stick and even admitted to stealing my mail. I actually had to move because her threats and nonsense were getting way out of control and I was scared to go outside because she was allllways sitting on the porch. Anyway, I tried reporting her to the police for stealing my mail [[and the postal police) and nothing ever happened even though she stole a check from the mail. The police also told me that they wouldn't do anything because of her mental illness [[she lived in some sort of group home setting next door.) It really is ridiculous that these types of people are allowed to force people out of their homes.

[j to the jeremy]

It's reflective of our national attitude towards mental illness. Ignore it until it becomes an issue, then ignore it harder.

[SWMAP]

I was scared to go outside because she was allllways sitting on the porch

not to distract this thread - but me, too. except my lady is living in her own home.

[rjk]

It's reflective of our national attitude towards mental illness. Ignore it until it becomes an issue, then ignore it harder.

If the person is living in a group home it's the staff that is ignoring her.
I'm all in favor of the mentally ill living in communites by way of group homes, but the staffs often times can be very lax in keeping an eye on the group home members.

[JBMcB]

He attributes NYC's rebound to refocusing on urban amenities that had been left to decline such as transit and public spaces, as well as keeping a handle on crime.

Improving amenities comes *after* getting crime under control. The desire to use nice public spaces and transportation is usually trumped by the desire not to be mugged or assaulted.

[SWMAP]

Group homes in Detroit are sometimes just people that are willing to take in handicapped people. They often don't bother to get a license or have staff other than a relative. I think they may be a modern version of the "workhouses' of Victorian days, in that they must be hellish places. I believe that a lot of the handicapped people begging downtown [[in wheelchairs and even on a stretcher) are residents of a "group home" like that. Someone from the home brings them downtown to get money. They are out in their wheelchairs in freezing storms - have to wait for a ride home.
You can imagine that no one would care if a crazy resident spent all her time on the porch.

[begingri]

Tuesday Talk replay: Public safety in Detroit

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...=2011110509050

[iheartthed]

Improving amenities comes *after* getting crime under control.

No... It doesn't. Those priorities are as important as the crime rate and Chicago's situation is a prime example. Chicago has one of the highest crime rates in the country, currently about twice the rate of New York or Los Angeles, yet it's still an overwhelming magnet for the millennial generation. The same goes for Washington, which has a crime rate similar to Chicago.

In fact, there really isn't much correlation between crime rate and the vitality of a city. Newark, NJ has a crime rate that is a third less than Chicago's or Washington's, and is even less than that of Boston. But Newark looks far more like Detroit than it does to either Boston or Chicago.

[Fnemecek]

With Detroiters saying Detroit is a lot worse than the media potrays it to be [[which is really bad to begin with). Why do you guys beat up on someone for leaving and going to the burbs because it's safer?

There is some validity to that criticism, though.

Some folks believe that, simply because they've moved a few miles away, they are immune to the problems. They then discover that mile roads mean nothing to a criminal. Once they run out of things to steal and people to shoot in one area, they expand their feeding area to include the adjacent communities.

This sets up a pattern whereby people move from Neighborhood A [[inner city) -> Neighborhood B to get away from crime. Crime shows up in Neighborhood B [[inner suburbs) - > they move to Neighborhood C [[more distant suburbs). Each move creates a demand for new or expanded roads, sewers, and other infrastructure.

The developers in each new community rarely, if ever, pay for those infrastructure upgrades themselves. The cost is ultimately past along to taxpayers, which takes away funding that could've gone towards addressing some of the underlying problems in the older neighborhoods.

I also find it a stretch to compare NYC to Detroit as far as cleaning the city up...NYC > Detroit always.

I used to live in NYC. I can assure you that there is some validity to it.

Back in the '70s and '80s, NYC had an out of control crime problem.

Businesses and residents were fleeing the city in droves. This included several high profile corporate departures for greener pastures in the suburbs or even out of state.

The city itself spent several years on the verge of bankruptcy.

Time magazine ran a cover story proclaiming the city the "Rotten Apple".

Does any of this sound just a little familiar?

No comparison of cities is ever perfect. However, there are some very distinct correlations.

[j to the jeremy]

Well said.

The burden of new road construction in the suburbs is always put on the inner city, by virtue of our tax structure and transportation funding policies.

My question is: if people move to the 'burbs to stay safe and have a "family" lifestyle, why do they cut funding to police, EMS, parks, llibraries, etc.? All that this does is accelerate the decay's spread from the core.

[English]

Above, I pointed out how improving amenities will lower crime. You have to get the stuff out of areas that are redeveloping that attract a criminal and drug-using element. Instead, put in the stuff that attracts the population you want. That kills two birds with one stone [[pardon the metaphor).

[preserve]

Just watching the local news would tell you that there's crime everywhere. I think I hear more about Clinton Twp than anywhere. I understand that the bad guys who car jacked
K. were caught. The bad guy[[s) at the Marathon Station didn't fare to well either. So, there is some crime solving going on. I too wish it were safer, but I wouldn't move out of my neighborhood.

[ferntruth]

Suburban Detroiters: Perfectly pleased to live next to a hellhole; would never lift a finger to change things.

That's the way it works. I don't live in Toledo, would you expect me to "life a finger to change things" there? I live in Ferndale, so thats where I put my energy.
If I lived in Detroit, I would be putting it there.

It's up to Detroit residents to fix their city instead of waiting for someone to come along and do it for them.