Recent crime wave downtown and near downtown

[softailrider]

When has anyone made a serious attempt at dealing with crime in Detroit?

It was back in the 60's, Gribbs was Mayor. They had a program called STRESS - I'm sure you've heard about it.

[Bham1982]

It was back in the 60's, Gribbs was Mayor. They had a program called STRESS - I'm sure you've heard about it.

This is the conundrum in Detroit.

Folks, for the most part, don't think crime fighting is a top priority. At the very least, they aren't willing to accept arguably heavy-handed policing in exchange for reductions in crime.

When Young was elected, he disbanded STRESS and declared racism and sexism to be the primary issues with the DPD. The emphasis was on racial and gender diversity. Aggressive crime-fighting was discouraged.

Detroit is, of course, a heavily African American city, and police have had poor relations with African Americans throughout U.S. history. It isn't surprising that African Americans are reluctant to loosen the reins on the police.

I'm not African American, and don't want to get into the issue of whether or not such reluctance is justified. But the reluctance exists, and IMO is the primary reason the police are so ineffectual in Detroit.

[English]

This is the conundrum in Detroit.

Folks, for the most part, don't think crime fighting is a top priority. At the very least, they aren't willing to accept arguably heavy-handed policing in exchange for reductions in crime.

When Young was elected, he disbanded STRESS and declared racism and sexism to be the primary issues with the DPD. The emphasis was on racial and gender diversity. Aggressive crime-fighting was discouraged.

Detroit is, of course, a heavily African American city, and police have had poor relations with African Americans throughout U.S. history. It isn't surprising that African Americans are reluctant to loosen the reins on the police.

I'm not African American, and don't want to get into the issue of whether or not such reluctance is justified. But the reluctance exists, and IMO is the primary reason the police are so ineffectual in Detroit.

You've almost got your finger on it. It's not an either-or, Bham1982, in the African American community. Most Black Detroiters DO want more done about crime in Detroit neighborhoods... who do you guys think were the majority of the 250,000 people who left the city over the past 10 years? But most of us don't want a return to the days of STRESS. Who wants to live in a police state or an occupied territory?

I know that many people on DYes fantasize about a return to the Detroit and the United States of the 1960s and before. For black people, that time was a nightmare.

My folks told me about STRESS. White people remember it fondly. Black people despise it. Yet another aspect of this region where we're racially polarized.

Look, let me be honest. I understand everything that has been said on this post. I get it. I don't want to be a victim of crime. However, I'll be d*mned if I have to dress up, put on makeup, and have other "markers" of my class on me on a Saturday morning if I want to go and run an errand in certain neighborhoods. I don't want a police force that when I run to the corner store in my sweats thinks I'm a prostitute or a thief just because I'm black -- you WOULD have another Gates incident on your hands, and like Gates, anyone who thought I was an uppity Negro KNOWS where they can go. Yet that's what Giuliani's NYC became in the 1990s and early 00s. AND if you weren't a person of color, unless you had friends or family who revealed what was going on in policing, this would be completely invisible to you.

So black folks who get sick of the crime move out of the city and out of the state. Those without options, who don't care, and a small number of those who think they can make a difference have stayed. That's all.

[Vox]

You've almost got your finger on it. It's not an either-or, Bham1982, in the African American community. Most Black Detroiters DO want more done about crime in Detroit neighborhoods... who do you guys think were the majority of the 250,000 people who left the city over the past 10 years? But most of us don't want a return to the days of STRESS. Who wants to live in a police state or an occupied territory?

I know that many people on DYes fantasize about a return to the Detroit and the United States of the 1960s and before. For black people, that time was a nightmare.

My folks told me about STRESS. White people remember it fondly. Black people despise it. Yet another aspect of this region where we're racially polarized.

Look, let me be honest. I understand everything that has been said on this post. I get it. I don't want to be a victim of crime. However, I'll be d*mned if I have to dress up, put on makeup, and have other "markers" of my class on me on a Saturday morning if I want to go and run an errand in certain neighborhoods. I don't want a police force that when I run to the corner store in my sweats thinks I'm a prostitute or a thief just because I'm black -- you WOULD have another Gates incident on your hands, and like Gates, anyone who thought I was an uppity Negro KNOWS where they can go. Yet that's what Giuliani's NYC became in the 1990s and early 00s. AND if you weren't a person of color, unless you had friends or family who revealed what was going on in policing, this would be completely invisible to you.

So black folks who get sick of the crime move out of the city and out of the state. Those without options, who don't care, and a small number of those who think they can make a difference have stayed. That's all.

So what you are saying is that the black community would rather move out of Detroit, and into other communities that use STRESS - like tactics in their policing? The DPD's only flaw in the STRESS unit was that the majority of DPD were white, thus bringing the obvious racist argument to the fore.

Now, not so much. You have the DPD, but still handcuffed to the "hands off" policy instituted by Coleman Young when he came into office. Now, with a 63% black police force, there should not be a reason in the world that this can't be done, CORRECTLY. A modified STRESS program would not hurt.

[English]

So what you are saying is that the black community would rather move out of Detroit, and into other communities that use STRESS - like tactics in their policing? The DPD's only flaw in the STRESS unit was that the majority of DPD were white, thus bringing the obvious racist argument to the fore.

Now, not so much. You have the DPD, but still handcuffed to the "hands off" policy instituted by Coleman Young when he came into office. Now, with a 63% black police force, there should not be a reason in the world that this can't be done, CORRECTLY. A modified STRESS program would not hurt.

Okay, Vox. When I get arrested and make the national news on some bad hair day, and this neo-STRESS unit refuses to believe "I live here" or "I teach at WSU" or even "Do you know WTF I am???" please come back to DYes to take a collection for my bail...

[Vox]

Okay, Vox. When I get arrested and make the national news on some bad hair day, and this neo-STRESS unit refuses to believe "I live here" or "I teach at WSU" or even "Do you know WTF I am???" please come back to DYes to take a collection for my bail...

Really? You are so funny, really. First off... why would you be arrested? Usually that would mean that you are doing something illegal, wouldn't it?

And believe me, I was stopped and searched by STRESS/ Big 4 too. It's not just you.

[English]

Really? You are so funny, really. First off... why would you be arrested? Usually that would mean that you are doing something illegal, wouldn't it?

Um, what was Henry Louis Gates doing when he got in trouble? The very existential state of being black is a crime in the eyes of some. People act like I am an imposter when I'm in regular situations at work -- I have to show ID and prove that I'm actually faculty if I'm away from my floor, and even some in my department mistake me for a student. I also am followed around in nicer stores, and have been ever since I reached puberty.

Given more than three decades' worth of life experience in America and Detroit, I can't predict what might happen. But I'll fight the return of STRESS or the advocacy of 1990s NYC styled policing with everything that's in me, and if Detroit chooses that route, they very well may lose a resident. There are alternatives to living in a police state or living in anarchy.

And believe me, I was stopped and searched by STRESS/ Big 4 too. It's not just you.

Oh, I wasn't even born when STRESS was disbanded. I just know my history.

[fryar]

You've almost got your finger on it. It's not an either-or, Bham1982, in the African American community. Most Black Detroiters DO want more done about crime in Detroit neighborhoods... who do you guys think were the majority of the 250,000 people who left the city over the past 10 years? But most of us don't want a return to the days of STRESS. Who wants to live in a police state or an occupied territory?

I know that many people on DYes fantasize about a return to the Detroit and the United States of the 1960s and before. For black people, that time was a nightmare.

My folks told me about STRESS. White people remember it fondly. Black people despise it. Yet another aspect of this region where we're racially polarized.

Look, let me be honest. I understand everything that has been said on this post. I get it. I don't want to be a victim of crime. However, I'll be d*mned if I have to dress up, put on makeup, and have other "markers" of my class on me on a Saturday morning if I want to go and run an errand in certain neighborhoods. I don't want a police force that when I run to the corner store in my sweats thinks I'm a prostitute or a thief just because I'm black -- you WOULD have another Gates incident on your hands, and like Gates, anyone who thought I was an uppity Negro KNOWS where they can go. Yet that's what Giuliani's NYC became in the 1990s and early 00s. AND if you weren't a person of color, unless you had friends or family who revealed what was going on in policing, this would be completely invisible to you.

So black folks who get sick of the crime move out of the city and out of the state. Those without options, who don't care, and a small number of those who think they can make a difference have stayed. That's all.

I don't know if so many people here really want a return to that time.

But am I being New York-centric to think we had a national conversation about racial profiling with the NJ State Troopers some time ago, that a lot has happened in that area? I should think nowadays there are standard best practices for policies and procedures designed to address this issue, applied by police depts across the country.

[Fnemecek]

This is the conundrum in Detroit.

Folks, for the most part, don't think crime fighting is a top priority. At the very least, they aren't willing to accept arguably heavy-handed policing in exchange for reductions in crime.

You're presenting a false choice between heavy handed policing vs. rampant crime. It's entirely possible to respond effectively to crime while still respecting the rights of the accused. NYPD and LAPD have each famously undergone major restructuring efforts that have yielded major crime reductions, while still protecting the civil liberties of the accused.

[Bham1982]

You're presenting a false choice between heavy handed policing vs. rampant crime. It's entirely possible to respond effectively to crime while still respecting the rights of the accused. NYPD and LAPD have each famously undergone major restructuring efforts that have yielded major crime reductions, while still protecting the civil liberties of the accused.

It's true that both NYC and LA have had major crime reduction, but in both cities the black community generally did not support the initiatives that most agree led to the crime reduction.

In NYC, Giuliani is generally credited with the massive crime reduction, but he never had any support in the black community, not even in the black Carribean community, which is very prominent in NYC and tends to vote more conservative than African Americans.

Bloomberg, his successor, and another crime fighter, has been somewhat more successful in the black community, but never received anything close to majority support.

And in LA, the appointment of William Bratton as police commissioner [[the NYC police commissioner under Giuliani) was bitterly opposed by African Americans, and may have cost Mayor Hahn his job, as he wasn't reelected [[despite huge African American support for his first term; the support evaoprated for his second term bid).

So the difference [[IMO) is that blacks form the dominant bulk of the electorate, so much that AA political sentiment is a proxy for Detroit political sentiment. In NYC and LA, blacks are a relatively small part of the overall electorate, and there are many other constituencies.