Recent crime wave downtown and near downtown

[ferntruth]

Crime in Detroit won't be a problem to Bham until he has some of that crime spill over into Bham.

That's not very likely to happen. Bham has a FUNCTIONING police department and citizens who actually care about where they live - 2 things that Detroit is seriously lacking.

[stasu1213]

Above, I pointed out how improving amenities will lower crime. You have to get the stuff out of areas that are redeveloping that attract a criminal and drug-using element. Instead, put in the stuff that attracts the population you want. That kills two birds with one stone [[pardon the metaphor).

Agree,. The city planners shoulld concentrate on allowing more family oriented businesses , more shops, and entertainment for all ages instead of allowing a club or liquor store to open on almost every other corner. Those businesses do attract crime

[Richard]

Is not denial a river in Egypt ?

You cannot really place blame on suburbs that shifted because of WF years ago,it happened right or wrong it is not going to change,every other major city has overcome and managed to get over those hurtles without trying to relocate the suburbs into the core to solve the problems.

In the past it was easy to rape and pillage a city you just had to keep them broke and fed on the dole and you had a captive audience ,and ready labor force for the auto manufactures, but things change and sooner or later the ratio of good verses bad takes over,but like everybody likes saying "Detroit is different" nice justification. How is that working?

But it would be wrong to place all citizens in that category of its their fault per-say you see articles every day of ones that are going above and beyond civic duties and responsibilities and doing their best to try and make it a better city for all but you really need to dig to find those positive articles.

Want jobs and companies to move there?
It is all about perception every day the rest of the county sees the bad side and thinks if the citizens do not care and want to stand up and take back their city how can they be respected? Go ahead and say screw those outsiders we do not need them we can eat them up in a week and spit them out without another thought thats working real well to hugh? We can just throw some immigrants in there and everything is solved.

2 options

Keep on the same path maybe 30 years down the road maybe things will change.

Or everybody no matter where they live in the city or suburbs stands up for one afternoon and supports the minority that are already standing up because they do need your help,city or suburb its all in the same boat ,its your fellow Americans ,suburbs cannot say its not their problem because it does not take a rocket scientist to see that it is all related in trickle down,everybody benefits positively .

Do a serious march of we have had enough and we are taking back this city, its one afternoon, show your city leaders and state Gov that it is time, enough is enough show them that there is a combined effort and they will take notice even more so if even to keep their job. If the wheel does not squeak why grease it?

Thugs and politicians do not care if you are a Dem, Rep or a Tea party they are all the same looking out for their best interest not yours ,until forced to.Most of this country is of the compassionate sort ,there is no shame of asking for a hand up it is understandable but the way things are it is asking for a hand out and that is a big difference in perception.If you do not notice most of the city is rapidly becoming a privately owned corporation,Is that what you want?

Or not.

[lilpup]

That's not very likely to happen. Bham has a FUNCTIONING police department and citizens who actually care about where they live - 2 things that Detroit is seriously lacking.

Ypsi and Ann Arbor thought that, too, but recent trends are proving otherwise

[mlmdetroit]

These violence-oriented clubs have been downtown for decades. So, while you may personally be worried, they aren't anything new, and are to be expected given past history. It's basically part of the bargain when you live downtown.

Same goes with carjackings. Obviously it's unacceptable and horrible behavior, but it's been going on for decades. It isn't particularly newsworthy when it's more of the same for a half-century.

My mother was carjacked [[not near downtown, though, near State Fair), so I know it's personally extremely distressing, but it's also reality in Detroit. This is why most folks who love Detroit choose to not live in Detroit.

I personally would consider Detroit, because I love the architecture, character and history. There's nothing like it where I live. But safety trumps everything else, so I'm in the burbs.

I have lived in the city for 12 years now. Before that I lived in Royal Oak. One night 16 cars had their windows shot out. Were we supposed to just accept it and say "well that is what we get for living in Royal Oak"? What about the optometrist that was carjacked/murdered in Birmingham a number of years back? Should people have moved out of Birmingham? Oh, that is right. It was just a random incident.

[Zacha341]

What's the failed "9 on 3rd development"?

The areas where you're going to get robbed are down Third, across from the failed 9 on 3rd development. That's where I've known people to get mugged.

[Zacha341]

Yeah, the self-justification is not exclusive to the mentally ill... I use a suburban 3rd party mail system [[not a USPS PO box) for items I mail order etc. After having a couple of my packages were 'intercepted' and a few crucial mail items come up missing I just gave up on using my Detroit address for all of my mail years ago. Crazy, but it is what it is and USPS is fairly nonchalant.

The *exact* same thing happened to me. An insane neighbor threatened to bash my head in with a stick and even admitted to stealing my mail. I actually had to move because her threats and nonsense were getting way out of control and I was scared to go outside because she was allllways sitting on the porch. Anyway, I tried reporting her to the police for stealing my mail [[and the postal police) and nothing ever happened even though she stole a check from the mail. The police also told me that they wouldn't do anything because of her mental illness [[she lived in some sort of group home setting next door.) It really is ridiculous that these types of people are allowed to force people out of their homes.

[Fnemecek]

That's not very likely to happen. Bham has a FUNCTIONING police department and citizens who actually care about where they live - 2 things that Detroit is seriously lacking.

Detroit definitely has citizen who care about where they live. The only reason the city still exists is because of those who work their butts off every day, picking up trash, watching abandoned buildings, and so on.

As for the police department, well, unfortunately, we have to a couple more years for the next election.

[softailrider]

When has anyone made a serious attempt at dealing with crime in Detroit?

It was back in the 60's, Gribbs was Mayor. They had a program called STRESS - I'm sure you've heard about it.

[Fnemecek]

That's both funny and sad at the same time.

[Alley]

That's the way it works. I don't live in Toledo, would you expect me to "life a finger to change things" there? I live in Ferndale, so thats where I put my energy.
If I lived in Detroit, I would be putting it there.

It's up to Detroit residents to fix their city instead of waiting for someone to come along and do it for them.

That is NOT the way it works, at least not the way it should. Why would you want to lift a finger to change things in Detroit when you live in Ferndale??? Wait until trouble wanders ALLLLLL the way across 8 Mile, to Ferndale, to find your happy home and then ask yourself that question. If you think you can live in a [[close) suburb of the city, without being concerned with what goes on in that city, you are sadly mistaken.

[Bham1982]

It was back in the 60's, Gribbs was Mayor. They had a program called STRESS - I'm sure you've heard about it.

This is the conundrum in Detroit.

Folks, for the most part, don't think crime fighting is a top priority. At the very least, they aren't willing to accept arguably heavy-handed policing in exchange for reductions in crime.

When Young was elected, he disbanded STRESS and declared racism and sexism to be the primary issues with the DPD. The emphasis was on racial and gender diversity. Aggressive crime-fighting was discouraged.

Detroit is, of course, a heavily African American city, and police have had poor relations with African Americans throughout U.S. history. It isn't surprising that African Americans are reluctant to loosen the reins on the police.

I'm not African American, and don't want to get into the issue of whether or not such reluctance is justified. But the reluctance exists, and IMO is the primary reason the police are so ineffectual in Detroit.

[Vox]

That is NOT the way it works, at least not the way it should. Why would you want to lift a finger to change things in Detroit when you live in Ferndale??? Wait until trouble wanders ALLLLLL the way across 8 Mile, to Ferndale, to find your happy home and then ask yourself that question. If you think you can live in a [[close) suburb of the city, without being concerned with what goes on in that city, you are sadly mistaken.

The trouble has been here a while, if you haven't noticed. Difference is, when you call the police and fire, they actually show up. And deal effectively with your trouble.

Property crimes are a different matter, but a deterrent is having neighbors that watch out for your shit, versus having neighbors that victimize you. Big difference...

[maxx]

RE; the OP

Detroit needs more police . What did Corey Booker and Rudy Giuliani do first thing after they were elected? They hired more police. Republicans continue to deny funds to states for police and other programs that reduce crime.I can still recall the Republican snickers over the issue of midnight basketball. It appears that they want to reduce our cities to utter chaos, the better to take them over with corporate thug power.

What rich thug said that he could always hire half the poor to kill the other half?

[English]

This is the conundrum in Detroit.

Folks, for the most part, don't think crime fighting is a top priority. At the very least, they aren't willing to accept arguably heavy-handed policing in exchange for reductions in crime.

When Young was elected, he disbanded STRESS and declared racism and sexism to be the primary issues with the DPD. The emphasis was on racial and gender diversity. Aggressive crime-fighting was discouraged.

Detroit is, of course, a heavily African American city, and police have had poor relations with African Americans throughout U.S. history. It isn't surprising that African Americans are reluctant to loosen the reins on the police.

I'm not African American, and don't want to get into the issue of whether or not such reluctance is justified. But the reluctance exists, and IMO is the primary reason the police are so ineffectual in Detroit.

You've almost got your finger on it. It's not an either-or, Bham1982, in the African American community. Most Black Detroiters DO want more done about crime in Detroit neighborhoods... who do you guys think were the majority of the 250,000 people who left the city over the past 10 years? But most of us don't want a return to the days of STRESS. Who wants to live in a police state or an occupied territory?

I know that many people on DYes fantasize about a return to the Detroit and the United States of the 1960s and before. For black people, that time was a nightmare.

My folks told me about STRESS. White people remember it fondly. Black people despise it. Yet another aspect of this region where we're racially polarized.

Look, let me be honest. I understand everything that has been said on this post. I get it. I don't want to be a victim of crime. However, I'll be d*mned if I have to dress up, put on makeup, and have other "markers" of my class on me on a Saturday morning if I want to go and run an errand in certain neighborhoods. I don't want a police force that when I run to the corner store in my sweats thinks I'm a prostitute or a thief just because I'm black -- you WOULD have another Gates incident on your hands, and like Gates, anyone who thought I was an uppity Negro KNOWS where they can go. Yet that's what Giuliani's NYC became in the 1990s and early 00s. AND if you weren't a person of color, unless you had friends or family who revealed what was going on in policing, this would be completely invisible to you.

So black folks who get sick of the crime move out of the city and out of the state. Those without options, who don't care, and a small number of those who think they can make a difference have stayed. That's all.

[Vox]

You've almost got your finger on it. It's not an either-or, Bham1982, in the African American community. Most Black Detroiters DO want more done about crime in Detroit neighborhoods... who do you guys think were the majority of the 250,000 people who left the city over the past 10 years? But most of us don't want a return to the days of STRESS. Who wants to live in a police state or an occupied territory?

I know that many people on DYes fantasize about a return to the Detroit and the United States of the 1960s and before. For black people, that time was a nightmare.

My folks told me about STRESS. White people remember it fondly. Black people despise it. Yet another aspect of this region where we're racially polarized.

Look, let me be honest. I understand everything that has been said on this post. I get it. I don't want to be a victim of crime. However, I'll be d*mned if I have to dress up, put on makeup, and have other "markers" of my class on me on a Saturday morning if I want to go and run an errand in certain neighborhoods. I don't want a police force that when I run to the corner store in my sweats thinks I'm a prostitute or a thief just because I'm black -- you WOULD have another Gates incident on your hands, and like Gates, anyone who thought I was an uppity Negro KNOWS where they can go. Yet that's what Giuliani's NYC became in the 1990s and early 00s. AND if you weren't a person of color, unless you had friends or family who revealed what was going on in policing, this would be completely invisible to you.

So black folks who get sick of the crime move out of the city and out of the state. Those without options, who don't care, and a small number of those who think they can make a difference have stayed. That's all.

So what you are saying is that the black community would rather move out of Detroit, and into other communities that use STRESS - like tactics in their policing? The DPD's only flaw in the STRESS unit was that the majority of DPD were white, thus bringing the obvious racist argument to the fore.

Now, not so much. You have the DPD, but still handcuffed to the "hands off" policy instituted by Coleman Young when he came into office. Now, with a 63% black police force, there should not be a reason in the world that this can't be done, CORRECTLY. A modified STRESS program would not hurt.

[Fnemecek]

This is the conundrum in Detroit.

Folks, for the most part, don't think crime fighting is a top priority. At the very least, they aren't willing to accept arguably heavy-handed policing in exchange for reductions in crime.

You're presenting a false choice between heavy handed policing vs. rampant crime. It's entirely possible to respond effectively to crime while still respecting the rights of the accused. NYPD and LAPD have each famously undergone major restructuring efforts that have yielded major crime reductions, while still protecting the civil liberties of the accused.

[fryar]

Actually, no we don't, because those of us who want to be part of the revitalization but happen to LOOK like some of those being complained about do NOT want to end up like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abner_Louima
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amadou_Diallo_shooting

There are other ways to remake the city besides in the image of Giuliani-era New York. Let's try to work and find them. He isn't the only person who's ever turned a city around, you know.

I didn't say he was an angel of mercy. He also was said to have shipped homeless folks out of New York, even supposedly paying their bus fare, he had the police ticket jaywalkers, and he went after the Hot Dog vendors. He was not above censorship if he took offense at an artwork. I'm not, generally, a fan.

But I can't fail to notice that these clubs are said on here to have been around forever. Clearly, the government is not acting. Giuliani had a lot of flaws, but he was fierce, and acted with urgency. "Undesirable" elements did not pull dumbass shit with negative spillover effects in his city. In Detroit, this sort of behavior is tolerated - not just anywhere, but over yonder where they're hoping to draw conventioneers, and cruise guests. What's the point of even trying if you're not going to take a page out of Giuliani's book and close down clubs that regularly have shootings?

[SWMAP]

"Violence-prone clubs" have not been downtown forever. it is a new phenomenon. The poster who said that makes assertions on topics that he has no first-hand knowledge about and they are taken then as gospel.

These clubs used to eb on 8 mile and the east side. Only recently have they been welcome downtown.

[j to the jeremy]

What's the failed "9 on 3rd development"?

http://www.modeldmedia.com/developme...neonthird.aspx

[j to the jeremy]

That's not very likely to happen. Bham has a FUNCTIONING police department and citizens who actually care about where they live - 2 things that Detroit is seriously lacking.

You never know, Troy has been laying off Police for a while because the people living there don't want to pay more taxes than they already do. Which is hilarious because the city has very low taxes already. The answer they've found so far is just to put cameras on every intersection in the city and pass a law allowing almost anyone to be pulled over for "distracted driving" or being young-looking after 10.

[fryar]

If someone wants to veg out on the couch for the rest of their life, fine by me. It's their life, their choice. Where it becomes an issue for me is when their choice to be a layabout requires my subsidization through any of the numerous government assistance programs. Now their choice to be lazy is costing the working person. If they have some way to slack off for the rest of their life and they're not relying on the public to enable them, have at it.

Now, if they should decide to acquire the means to be a perma-slug by some criminal activity, prison with hard labor is in order.

These are questions of another order altogether.

You simply cannot regularly have gunfights in downtown Detroit. There is no point in trying anything else down there if you're not going to close down these places.

I don't mind the panhandlers so much, personally, but they are also part of that equation.

[Swimmaven]

Crime wave ? ? ?

Hasn't Detroit been like that for the past 45 years ?

[Bham1982]

You're presenting a false choice between heavy handed policing vs. rampant crime. It's entirely possible to respond effectively to crime while still respecting the rights of the accused. NYPD and LAPD have each famously undergone major restructuring efforts that have yielded major crime reductions, while still protecting the civil liberties of the accused.

It's true that both NYC and LA have had major crime reduction, but in both cities the black community generally did not support the initiatives that most agree led to the crime reduction.

In NYC, Giuliani is generally credited with the massive crime reduction, but he never had any support in the black community, not even in the black Carribean community, which is very prominent in NYC and tends to vote more conservative than African Americans.

Bloomberg, his successor, and another crime fighter, has been somewhat more successful in the black community, but never received anything close to majority support.

And in LA, the appointment of William Bratton as police commissioner [[the NYC police commissioner under Giuliani) was bitterly opposed by African Americans, and may have cost Mayor Hahn his job, as he wasn't reelected [[despite huge African American support for his first term; the support evaoprated for his second term bid).

So the difference [[IMO) is that blacks form the dominant bulk of the electorate, so much that AA political sentiment is a proxy for Detroit political sentiment. In NYC and LA, blacks are a relatively small part of the overall electorate, and there are many other constituencies.

[Bham1982]

You never know, Troy has been laying off Police for a while because the people living there don't want to pay more taxes than they already do.

Even assuming Troy has [[or will have) piss-poor policing, I doubt they will have serious crime problems. They don't have the socioeconomic mix that would lead to common Detroit conditions.

It's much more than just policing.