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Progress on the M1 Light Rail in Downtown Detroit proceeds along both sides of Woodward Avenue. When completed he curbside electric rail will run from Campus Martius to Grand Boulevard.

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  1. #1
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    Apr 2009
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    109

    Default More D-DOT Service Cuts Proposed for June 2011

    DDOT bus service to be cut again!
    Come June 25, 2011, better get the car in working order, cause the bus might not be coming for a long while.....especially on weekends.



    More "proposed" cuts in DDOT service are scheduled to take effect on June 25, 2011. The highlights (low-lights) include:
    • Elimination of 24-hour service
    • Elimination of two bus routes and the merging of another
    • Downtown service eliminated on two routes --- #38 Plymouth/#47 Tireman
    • Evening service wait-times increased to 60-minutes
    • A number of lines will cease weekend operation
    • Secondary routes increased to 60-minute service all day on Saturdays
    • "ALL" routes (i.e., those left operating) increased to 60-minute service all day on Sundays
    Public hearings will be held May 10 thru 13, 2011. For more info see:
    http://www.detroitmi.gov/portals/0/docs/deptoftransportation/PDFs/2011/SERVICE_CHANGE_BOOKLET_FOR_JUNE_2011.PDF

  2. #2
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    Apr 2009
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    Default

    I'll have more comments on this later, but here at the top of the thread, this is the information about the public comment meetings and other ways to make your voice heard about these cuts. Unlike in past DDOT service changes, where cuts were made, but some services were improved, there are no improvements in service on any routes this time around. Make your voice heard if you use or support the only public transit option in the city!!

    DDOT encourages the public to attend any one of seven (7) public hearings that have been scheduled for customer awareness and input. Morning and/or evening hearings will be held at each of the locations listed below.

    Tuesday, May 10, 2011 (two hearings)

    Considine Little Rock Family Life Center
    8904 Woodward Ave, Detroit
    Morning Hearing: 11 a.m. 1 p.m.
    Evening Hearing: 5:30 p.m. 7:30 p.m.

    Wednesday, May 11, 2011 (two hearings)

    Wayne County Community College District - Conner at I-94
    5901 Conner St., Detroit
    Morning Hearing: 11 a.m. 1 p.m.
    Evening Hearing: 6 p.m. 8 p.m.

    Thursday, May 12, 2011 (one hearing)

    Roberta Clemente Recreation Center
    2631 Bagley, Detroit
    Evening Hearing: 5:30 p.m. 7:30 p.m.

    Friday, May 13, 2011 (two hearings)

    Northwest Activity Center
    18100 Meyers Rd., Detroit
    Morning Hearing: 11 a.m. 1 p.m.
    Evening Hearing: 6 p.m. 8 p.m.

    Public comments will also be accepted in writing, by mail and electronically beginning Wednesday, April 27, 2011 through Wednesday, May 18, 2011.


    All public comments (verbal and written) are properly analyzed and taken into

    consideration, as final decisions are made on the changes.

    A follow-up meeting has been scheduled to present the June 25, 2011 service changes identified for implementation.


    Thursday, May 26, 2011 (one meeting)

    Considine Little Rock Family Life Center
    8904 Woodward Ave, Detroit
    Evening Meeting: 5:30 p.m. 7:30 p.m.

    DDOT looks forward to hearing from our customers. Comments may be mailed to:


    Detroit Department of Transportation

    Attention: Strategic Planning/Scheduling Division
    1301 E. Warren
    Detroit, MI 48207

    Comments may be emailed to:
    ddotcomments@detroitmi.gov

  3. #3
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    Mar 2011
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    Default

    While this certainly sucks, I don't understand why D-DOT doesn't consider raising fares before slashing even further.

    Most transit agencies nowadays charge somewhere in the $2-$3 range for one-way fares. D-DOT is charging half that.

    Yes, it would impact those who have no other choice, but slashing service to the bone isn't exactly doing them any favors.

  4. #4
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    Apr 2009
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    Default

    Bham hit it right on the head. Why on earth is DDOT not making a serious push to raise fares to $2.00 for a standard one way ride? SMART has been at the $2 level for some time now. Most other systems are as well. It seems logical that both the city and suburban systems would try to standardize as much as possible for the ease of the traveling public. Wait, which one has a 50 cent transfer from one line to the other instead of 25 cents? Why not make it $2 for a ride on each and a standard 50 cent transfer between coaches of the same line or interline, and leave it at that. Regional passes are $49, I believe. I know they wanted to up it to something like $70, which in my opinion is a little much. Why not $55? That shouldn't break the bank like a $20 jump would, but would still increase revenues.

    In the past, service cuts have been made, trimming hours, extending headways, eliminating some weekend service. At the same time, DDOT's busier routes have been some service improvements, so in actuality it was a realignment of services, rather than a cut. This proposed set of June changes is a large scale cut. This wholesale change to 60 minute headways on basically all routes for the weekend is kind of ridiculous. Even some fairly busy weekday routes will switch to 60 minute weekday headways. They also want to eliminate 24 hour service on all routes.

    I don't know how many people take the bus between 2 and 5am. I think, in light of plunging funding, it would be fair for DDOT to either a) trim back evening service on some less popular routes but leave 24 hour service intact or b) eliminate 24 hour service on some or all routes but preserve more frequent headways during the weekend and on some routes during the weekdays. If a few multiple bus route DDOT trips were convenient, this will kill them. "Great, I just waited 45 minutes for my Vernor coach to get me from SW to downtown, now I have to wait another 40 minutes for a Jefferson bus to take me to Belle Isle."

    I don't even live in Michigan at the moment, and yet I plan to make my voice heard on this. Several years ago I took SMART and, when needed, DDOT on a somewhat regular basis. If I came back to Detroit/the metro, I would look into taking the bus to work or for other events. I'd want a bus to exist at all.

  5. #5
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    Mar 2009
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    Default

    Yes it's going to happen. More D-DOT cuts as the gas prices are high and Detroit lives in doom and gloom MAD MAX SYNDROME every year with no solutions!

    Here's what I'm proposing to save D-DOT:

    1. Eliminate certian bus routes that has lower ridership.

    2. Raise bus fares from $1.50 to $2.00, transfers from $0.25 to $0.50. student fares from $1.00 to $1.25. Students will have to pay for transfers shown. D-DOT bus passes will be raised. Bi-weekly to $16.00, Weekly to $20.00 and Monthly to $70.00.
    Senior and disable fares will be raised from $0.50 to $0.60. Child fare will be raised from $0.50 to $0.60. Any child is under 44ft in height ( with accompany by adult will have to pay) $0.10.

    3. Lay-off up from 20 to 40 bus drivers.

    4. Eliminate ALL SUNDAY BUS SERVICES COMPLETELY!

    5. Reduce all weeknight bus services from Monday to Saturday starting at 10.00pm. Busses will resume services at 6.00am.

    5. Reduce bus scheldules to 45 minutes to 1 hour.

    6. Propose to privatize D-DOT. Have the EFM, Mayor and City Council oversee bus services and have a representative voice to build political and social relationship between Detroiters, city government and private companies to improve better and safer transit rides.

    7. CUT THEIR PAY!!!


    WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET!

    Good-bye mass transit, especially light rail. If DARTA IS DEAD! so will our busses.

    Neda, I miss you so.
    Last edited by Danny; April-29-11 at 06:36 AM.

  6. #6
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    Jun 2009
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    6,239

    Default

    Goodness these changes are drastic indeed! A fare increase would be better. I feel for those who rely on the busses to get to work. I've been in that position... which is why I am holding on to my car for dear life. I don't want to be back on any form of bus at this point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bham1982 View Post
    While this certainly sucks, I don't understand why D-DOT doesn't consider raising fares before slashing even further.

    Most transit agencies nowadays charge somewhere in the $2-$3 range for one-way fares. D-DOT is charging half that.

    Yes, it would impact those who have no other choice, but slashing service to the bone isn't exactly doing them any favors.

  7. #7
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    Apr 2009
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    Very drastic cuts indeed. My fellow transit advocates were able to convince City Council not to allow any sort of fare increase a couple of months ago, and now that is coming home to roost.

    The fact of the matter is the City is broke. It is a shame that cuts of this magnitude are necessary, but the City is broke, and if it can't get more money into the bus system by raising fares, you get what you see here.

    You can't have it both ways. Either fares have to go up, or service has to be cut, or, quite frankly, both. Detroit should raise its fare, privatize collections (to reduce theft among other things), and make more modest service adjustments. But it won't.

  8. #8

    Default

    Unfortunately, I would have to agree that the fares would have to be raised.

    I was opposed to having the Regional Pass be increased to $70. However, after getting this news about more cuts, which include 24 hour service as well as weekend service, the fares are going to have to go up.

    No one wants to see DUIs go up in the city because, there aren't any buses available for those who get drunk at clubs and have no designated drivers, let alone enough money for a cab home.

    With the population going down, the city can't run DDOT efficiently in its current state.

  9. #9
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    Apr 2009
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    830

    Default

    The system must change, there is no doubt about it. But in the interim, the fares should increase to avoid the drastic level of cuts proposed here. I would recommend a graduated increase in the base fare to increase from $1.50 to $1.75, and after 6 months, then $2.00. In my mind, two dollar bills are much easier to carry around than quarters for an exact fare. Fares should also increase slightly for students, seniors, the disabled, and other groups which receive discounts. Interline transfers should be standardized. Presently, either between DDOT and SMART or SMART and DDOT, a transfer is 50 cents instead of 25. I think all transfers should be standardized at one rate or the other, whether to the same line or interline.

    Likewise, I would advocate for a moderate increase in the DDOT monthly pass and the DDOT/SMART Regional pass. Currently, the DDOT monthly pass is $47, and the Regional pass $49.50. The month-long pass for the Boston T for unlimited rides for all subway and streetcar lines is currently $59. I would advocate that the DDOT monthly pass increase to $55, and the Regional pass increase to $59. This is not near the $70 proposed rate and could increase in graduated increments, as well. Yes, it's a $10 increase for the Regional Pass. But if that means DDOT won't scale back to the effect they are proposing, then I'd pay the extra amount. A 5-day pass is $14 and a week-long pass is $14.40. I would leave the 5-day pass where it is, and increase the week-long pass to $16. I would also create a 24-hour unlimited rides pass for something like $5-8 or so.

    Does DDOT currently short-turn any buses on bus lines like Woodward? Would it make sense to short turn some buses say, at McNichols (as the DSR streetcars did) so as to provide more round-trips (and therefore shorter headways) to the prime Woodward part of the corridor through Highland Park, New Center, Midtown, and downtown. I know this wouldn't work for all routes, but it would help increase service while not increasing the number of drivers or coaches in service. Just another thought.

    I spent this past weekend in Boston riding the T and its a fantastic system. Can't say enough good things about my experiences on it. I can only hope that one day, Detroit transit will be something remotely similar to it.

  10. #10
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    Apr 2009
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocko View Post
    I spent this past weekend in Boston riding the T and its a fantastic system. Can't say enough good things about my experiences on it. I can only hope that one day, Detroit transit will be something remotely similar to it.
    I enjoy Boston myself. The people of metropolitan Boston spend three times as much per person in local support of their transit system than do we in metropolitan Detroit. That is why their transit system works, and ours fundamentally never will.

    Until and unless we are willing to pay for public transit, we will never have a working system that people can actually use; and until we provide that basic urban service which every other big city provides, we will never be successful as a region.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    143

    Default

    I am going to print out your suggestions, Rocko, and present them at one of the public meetings. These bus cuts are drastic. Too drastic. Weekend service is already abysmal. When I lived in Warrendale, I often took the "Tireman" bus to downtown to go to work. I think that raising fares is the best way to go, and a gradual increase is a great idea.

  12. #12
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    Apr 2009
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    830

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    Masterblaster and others:

    If you think my ideas are good, please do go and present them, send letters, emails, etc. I live in Connecticut now. I'm going to write a letter or two of my own, and by coincidence, I'll be in the Detroit area when the public input meetings are taking place. But I'm not sure I can go to one of the meetings. Naturally, in my opinion my ideas are good. I've been to enough other large cities to see how good transit can work. There's no reason our fares should be less than other cities, and consequentially, we need to CUT service in this time of serious economic hardship. Gradual increases take some of the "bite" out of the increase and help people be able to budget better. Detroit NEEDS transit, but cutting bus service is not the way to get us there. Or anywhere. Especially on a Sunday.

    Please get the word out!

  13. #13
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    Mar 2009
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    Default

    The city should change the charter so that money profitted by DDOT will go back into DDOT just like DPL operates. DDOT ridership is high in Detroit meaning the revenue generated is high. Instead of the money profited by DDOT going into the city's general fund let the money go back into the system which would take care of repairs, wages for the drivers, mechanics, and supervisors. Wait time could decrease and more busses could be put on the routes instead of cutting busses of routes. Encourage riding DDOT for an increase in ridership. Money through ridership could also fund security for the busses. On routes that is not heavily ridden or at night time the mini busses could be used instead of discontinuing busses all together at night. A 24hr bus pass could be introduce also for $7.00 or so. Riders could jump on and off the bus as many times needed withing the 24hr period. This will work doing this gas and financial crisis the city is facing. Many residents had given up driving their cars due to high insurance, gas prices and being employement or cut back in wages on their jobs

  14. #14
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    Feb 2011
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    63

    Default

    The DDOT bus service continues to erode with fewer resources and delayed buses how are we going to get a light rail? Seriously, how is the proposed light rail going to be funded over the years? Is it going to further take away from the quality of bus service? Are we ever going to get a regional transit authority to collect new taxes, and if so will this have to be approved by voters? Detroit needs good transit and light rail would help but the region needs to figure out how to maintain the current bus system with higher fees, taxes... I think woodward ave. already has the best bus service in the city, so when we get light rail, are the bus resources going to be shifted to other routes that will need it, i.e. Grand River? The People Mover is running out of money too and apparently doesn't have enough funds to stay functioning past the new year?. Serious funding issues need to be figured out before we have no transit at all!

    http://www.freep.com/article/2011091...yssey=nav|head

  15. #15
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    Jun 2009
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    Welcome to a 'braver' new world! Few jobs, and harder to get them! Detroier's not driving cut off from options outside of the city...

    Up until 3 years ago, by necessity, I worked almost exclusively in Oakland County relying on having a good car especially when I was driving to the Auburn Hills area. A few times I had to do the 'DDOT to Smart' connection when car was out. Now what? There's gonna be people driving without license or insurance. Forget the car notes (and high rate full coverage therein), you almost have to drive a very modest used car to afford to keep-it-all-legal all the time which I as a responsible driver do.
    Last edited by Zacha341; September-15-11 at 04:45 AM.

  16. #16
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    Feb 2011
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    63

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    If we could only get one of the Big 3 to start making buses and trains then maybe Detroit could have the best bus and train system in the world to go along with our amazing freeways and super wide streets and parking lots...

  17. #17
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    Mar 2011
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    231

    Default

    The City of Detroit should get out of the Bus Transit Business.

    Leave it to private enterprise.

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