The Brodhead Armory is being looted as we speak

[English]

English, the current city government rec'd an offer from the commander if Selfridge Air Base to secure and preserve the Armoury. I saw an email he later sent to interested parties in which he said that he had no reply from the Mayor at all. This transpired in 2011.
So it is not true that the "funders" abandoned the City on this and it is certainly not true that the City does "not have the money" because the City only needs to board it up, secure it and keep it a scout car priority. But there is no will. You have to ask yourself why. I conclude that the Armoury is a white legacy and so dispensable.

Look, I am not, nor have I ever been, white. I care about preservation. Unfortunately, not every black person in Detroit has any access to the working of the city government. Stop with the race-baiting and put the blame where it belongs -- NOT on an entire group of people.

[English]

Sorry not meaning to pick on you and meaning no disrespect ,but quit allowing the property owners [[not all are) to run the city is it by the people for the people or is it by the people for the select few.

Well, this is a capitalist nation. People in Detroit are poor. I'm likely in the upper socioeconomic decile in the city, and most of you reading this could buy and sell me several times over. My point is that this dog [[of blaming the Detroit masses) just doesn't hunt.

If I could secure every abandoned historic building, I WOULD. But I don't have the funds. Neither does anyone else here.

And I love how Detroiters -- all of us -- always get blamed for corrupt leadership. Over the 8 years I've posted here, I've occasionally been implicated for voting in the CAY administration, and yet, I was maybe 15 or 16 when he stepped down. I do take my full share of blame for voting in KMK in 2001. I thought I'd done my research and he was the clear choice above Gil Hill. I've felt terrible for years about that ONE vote. But I have voted in other elections for other leaders who were/are fair, ethical, and responsible. So have other Detroiters.

I'd daresay that ALL of us can say that we have regretted some of our choices in the voting booth. Some of you are saying this right now about Snyder! In fact, I'd argue that this state AND this nation has had leadership that's just as ethically bankrupt as that of Detroit -- money papers over a multitude of sins. No one seems to wish to blame all Americans for the state of our county and our priorities, least of all themselves.

[Richard]

I suppose that the key word here is citizens. Obviously the citizens of Detroit have enough to worry about just surviving these days, let alone get involved in historic preservation.

Those that can help, external to the city, have been excused from the picture by the Council. "Stealing our jewels" is the rallying cry, and let the past glories of Detroit go bye-bye.

Its a discussion but yes and no,we eat today but we also need to look at eating tomorrow,concentrate on making it at level playing field to outside investors and the historic aspect will fall into place,it is to hard to fight little battles all over town and it spreads everybody to thin to make a difference but concentrate on where it matters the most,city hall,it does not cost a dime these days with emails,back in the day it was going door to door.

Last week I toured a vacant small arms manufacturing facility that has been dormant for many years sure it had some busted out windows from kids with rocks but it was still intact in the inside and not stripped to death,the city was actually bigger then Detroit. But the city also makes it clear that it will not tolerate scrappers.

[SWMAP]

I told the facts and my interpretation. I do not apologize.

[English]

I suppose that the key word here is citizens. Obviously the citizens of Detroit have enough to worry about just surviving these days, let alone get involved in historic preservation.

Thank you. This was the point I was trying to make. Yet I began the thread feeling badly about the scrapping, and wanting to talk about that. By the time I finished reading and made my post, was furious that it had descended into another indictment of Detroiters.

Those that can help, external to the city, have been excused from the picture by the Council. "Stealing our jewels" is the rallying cry, and let the past glories of Detroit go bye-bye.

The rhetoric on all sides needs to be toned down. Bing is a pragmatist. Like it or lump it, look for future leadership to follow that mold.

[English]

I told the facts and my interpretation. I do not apologize.

The facts as you see them, right? Why would you apologize for your interpretation -- your opinion?

Broad statements about blacks and whites shouldn't enter into the discussion, though. There are ardent black preservationists who are carefully tending to and restoring that so-called "white legacy" in Indian Village and Palmer Woods, and white scrappers who don't care much about it beyond what they can sell. Just as there are white jazz theorists and aficionados, and blacks who couldn't give a sweet d*mn about it. It's the 21st century -- why get into tired binaries?

[Richard]

Well, this is a capitalist nation. People in Detroit are poor. I'm likely in the upper socioeconomic decile in the city, and most of you could buy and sell me several times over. My point is that this dog [[of blaming the Detroit masses) just doesn't count.

If I could secure every abandoned historic building, I WOULD. But I don't have the funds. Neither does anyone else here.

And I love how Detroiters -- all of us -- always get blamed for corrupt leadership. Over the 8 years I've posted here, I've occasionally been implicated for voting in the CAY administration, and yet, I was maybe 15 or 16 when he stepped down. I do take full blame for voting in KMK in 2001. I thought I'd done my research and he was the clear choice above Gil Hill. I've felt terrible for years about that vote. But I have voted in other elections for other leaders who were/are fair, ethical, and responsible.

I'd daresay that ALL of us can say that. Yet I'd argue that this state AND this nation has had leadership that's just as ethically bankrupt as that of Detroit -- money papers over a multitude of sins. No one seems to wish to blame all Americans for the state of our county and our priorities, least of all themselves.

Okay you opened the door : ) What is Detroit ? Dirt with buildings and dirt and buildings does not make a city the citizens do.

What has happened in the past in Detroit has happened, either look back and learn and move forward or stay in place and sink only the citizens can make that decision and not the rest of the country.

There are a lot of caring people in Detroit and a lot are doing what they can and making an improvement in their part of the world I doubt that they are extremely well off so being poor as it may is already proven as a non valid excuse they still have a voice and can make it be heard and it does not cost anything.

[detroiturbex]

Ok. Let's try this again.

This post is about a single door that has been broken open. This post is not about preservation strategies. It's not about city planning, or the free market role in property governance, or white colonialism, or racial legacy, or urban explorers ruining the city, or how the door got opened, or who opened the door, or why the damn door was built in the first place, or speculation on if the door leads to Narnia and if so what zoning bylaws apply.

This post is asking for ONE thing: how do we secure one door that is swinging wide open, allowing scrappers easy access to a building full of WORKS OF ART that reflect the culture and heritage of Detroit.

I don't have the means to do it myself. I'm asking for your help.

[Richard]

I am not there but if Django sees this and wants to assist I would not have a problem sending Western Union funds tomorrow. if it keeps it safe that much longer its worth a shot.

alr2llc@yahoo.com my email

[majohnson]

" the current city government rec'd an offer from the commander if Selfridge Air Base to secure and preserve the Armoury. I saw an email he later sent to interested parties in which he said that he had no reply from the Mayor at all. This transpired in 2011."

So what!?
What if I send a letter to Bing offering to prevent all crime at the Packard Plant?
The commander at Selfridge has no legal authority to stop crime at the Armory, if he did he would not need Bing's approval. The arm force's chain of command does not involve city mayors. Such a letter from the National Guard or even the State Police would be much more noteworthy.

Here is the best ownership information I could find:
KONICA BUSINESS TECHNOLOGIES INCU S MARINESP O BOX 54650 DEPT 23125LEXINGTON, KY 40555-4650

Why Konica? I have no idea.
Previous owners include the fire department, Sprinte Nextel, and Spectrasite Communications.

I am willing to contact Konica USA and get them to secure the building.
Anybody in?
I can't help until May 10 though.

[Richard]

form what you copy and past reads is that they were seeking permission to secure the building and not ordering them.

Legally you cannot just go to a property and throw some boards up you would need to contact the property owner and sign a release form so if you get hurt you cannot sue them for it.

But having said that I have thrown up many a complementary board on regen neighborhood houses that posed a quality of life issue but after taking a picture first .

[manualshift]

Publicly take over these works of art and put them to productive use. I am sure that would prompt a response.

[English]

Okay you opened the door : ) What is Detroit ? Dirt with buildings and dirt and buildings does not make a city the citizens do.

What has happened in the past in Detroit has happened, either look back and learn and move forward or stay in place and sink only the citizens can make that decision and not the rest of the country.

There are a lot of caring people in Detroit and a lot are doing what they can and making an improvement in their part of the world I doubt that they are extremely well off so being poor as it may is already proven as a non valid excuse they still have a voice and can make it be heard and it does not cost anything.

Yes. Exactly. This is what makes it so hard, Richard.

There are so many people who are trying with everything in them to make Detroit a better place. Everything. Sometimes, they succeed. But Detroit is a very big place with a lot of issues. And most people -- with some notable exceptions -- can't be good for the city until they are good to themselves. Having shelter, some modicum of food security, a steady job, knowing that your kids will be OK, and that your home will be reasonably safe if you leave it for many are prerequisites for volunteering and activism.

I guess I've always known that Detroit is more than this place with heroes and villains, with lazy city dwellers and smug wealthy suburbanites, with corrupt black nationalist city leaders, do-nothing teachers, or absentee landlords who don't care very much. Yes, it is all of those things. But it's so much more.

It's frustrating because, as I've always said, I was raised to not have these kinds of conversations. Nearly 13 years after his death, I can still hear my dad saying, "There is NOTHING that you can ever do, say, or be that will ever make them..."

I disagree. I think we need to have the difficult conversations, but not in an unproductive way. It's not 1975 anymore. We can talk about our disagreements, fight, get down and dirty, and then get up tomorrow and work to rebuild the city.

[old guy]

Well, this certainly has become a lively discussion. What actually is the basic problem here? The building? The beautiful artwork that's being destroyed? Are the scrappers actually saving what's being ruined so it can live on? Who's to blame? It's all pretty strange for an outsider looking in and trying to figure out what's happening inside this city. You have a unique situation.

[Gistok]

Most of the artwork in the Broadhead Naval Armory iis in the form of 3 large murals, some plaster carving and a lot of woodwork.

Here's some images of the murals....
http://www.detroitfunk.com/?p=461

[andyguard]

This post is about a single door that has been broken open. This post is not about preservation strategies. It's not about city planning, or the free market role in property governance, or white colonialism, or racial legacy, or urban explorers ruining the city, or how the door got opened, or who opened the door, or why the damn door was built in the first place, or speculation on if the door leads to Narnia and if so what zoning bylaws apply.

This is by far my favorite post of the year. In all seriousness, Your heart is in the right place, but I'm really not sure what you can do, besides trying to contact the owner. I was also wondering what your relationship is with the building? Do you live or work next to it? Drive past it on your daily commute? I'm only asking because I'm wondering if there are different angles you could play with the owners. . . "I want that door secured - it's dangerous having it open. . . " or "Hey, I really need you to fix that door - the people going in and out are scaring our customers. . . " I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud. How do you get an absentee landlord to listen?

[English]

Ok. Let's try this again.

This post is about a single door that has been broken open. This post is not about preservation strategies. It's not about city planning, or the free market role in property governance, or white colonialism, or racial legacy, or urban explorers ruining the city, or how the door got opened, or who opened the door, or why the damn door was built in the first place, or speculation on if the door leads to Narnia and if so what zoning bylaws apply.

This post is asking for ONE thing: how do we secure one door that is swinging wide open, allowing scrappers easy access to a building full of WORKS OF ART that reflect the culture and heritage of Detroit.

I don't have the means to do it myself. I'm asking for your help.

I agree that your initial post was initially about the "single door," but the thread quickly moved into other issues. Such is DYes.

If the answers were simple, detroiturbex, the city of Detroit would be a completely different place. You don't know how much I wish that they were.

[SWMAP]

Did you not read my post above? Recently, the U. S. Navy, in the person of commander Eric Isaacson at Selfridge ANG base, wrote to the mayor of Detroit with an offer to secure and preserve the armorey. He never rec'd a reply to my knowledge. You can infer that the Navy, at least, has concluded that the City controls the building.

[majohnson]

Did you not read my post above? Recently, the U. S. Navy, in the person of commander Eric Isaacson at Selfridge ANG base, wrote to the mayor of Detroit with an offer to secure and preserve the armorey. He never rec'd a reply to my knowledge. You can infer that the Navy, at least, has concluded that the City controls the building.

71

" the current city government rec'd an offer from the commander if Selfridge Air Base to secure and preserve the Armoury. I saw an email he later sent to interested parties in which he said that he had no reply from the Mayor at all. This transpired in 2011."

So what!?
What if I send a letter to Bing offering to prevent all crime at the Packard Plant?
The commander at Selfridge has no legal authority to stop crime at the Armory, if he did he would not need Bing's approval. The arm force's chain of command does not involve city mayors. Such a letter from the National Guard or even the State Police would be much more noteworthy.

Here is the best ownership information I could find:
KONICA BUSINESS TECHNOLOGIES INCU S MARINESP O BOX 54650 DEPT 23125LEXINGTON, KY 40555-4650

Why Konica? I have no idea.
Previous owners include the fire department, Sprinte Nextel, and Spectrasite Communications.

I am willing to contact Konica USA and get them to secure the building.
Anybody in?
I can't help until May 10 though.

[SWMAP]

The guy at Selfridge wasn't offering to police the site. He was offering to secure the entries, etc much in the same way people in Detroit neighborhoods are securing vacant property from vandalism.

[SWMAP]

I don' understand why you are worried about chain of command? The Broadhead is a navel historic site. That's why the Navy is interested in assisting in it's preservation if anyone in the City goverment would also be interested. But apparently not.

[bailey]

Because Detroit has been abandoned by the people that fund such things.

There. I fixed your statement for you.

no. it was right the first time. If there were enough of those that cared, the door would be secured. If there were enough of those that cared, a police officer would respond to reports that doors were open and looting was occurring. If there were enough of those that cared, a property located on a park, on a major thoroughfare, adjacent to one of the city's most visible attractions and landmarks would not be left to rot. There may be those that care, and you are clearly one of them, however you are outnumbered massively.

[DetroitPole]

no. it was right the first time. If there were enough of those that cared, the door would be secured. If there were enough of those that cared, a police officer would respond to reports that doors were open and looting was occurring. If there were enough of those that cared, a property located on a park, on a major thoroughfare, adjacent to one of the city's most visible attractions and landmarks would not be left to rot. There may be those that care, and you are clearly one of them, however you are outnumbered massively.

You're basically wrong about everything, all the time, but you were right about something: we, like English, who care, are outnumbered massively. By people like you.

The problem is that the city has been abandoned by people who don't care; again, people like you.

You're preaching about what other people should be doing, at the same time talking about how you could really give a shit. Thanks for all your help. Obviously the world needs more people like you.

And this building is how old and you're calling it obselete? You know in Europe something 100 years old is quite modern, and they make use of quite everything, somehow. I'm assuming you don't get out much, though.

[bailey]

You're basically wrong about everything, all the time, but you were right about something: we, like English, who care, are outnumbered massively. By people like you.the problem is that the city has been abandoned by people who don't care; again, people like you

Well, first off, you're free to ignore me. Secondly, you know nothing about what I have done in and around Detroit because I'm not about to post my resume nor my residence history here, but let me just say, your self righteousness is cute. By the way, shouldn't you be writing another dear diary post about how hard it is for you to get the simplest of tasks completed at CAYMAC or other such complaint about the day to day inconveniences that plague you in your little adventures in detroit home ownership?

You're preaching about what other people should be doing, at the same time talking about how you could really give a shit. Thanks for all your help. Obviously the world needs more people like you.

I'm not preaching about anything, if anyone is preaching it's you.I'm discussing the reality facing this building on yet another thread lamenting the demise of yet another architectural and artistic gem due to institutionally sanctioned neglect. You're preaching at ME not doing anything, what are you doing beside pointing fingers? Go down and board up the building and see what happens tomorrow. After you do if few times finding your efforts destroyed, you'll quickly understand the futility because no one will ever be held accountable for the destruction. Not the city, not the owners, not the ruin pornographers, and least of all the scrappers....although we can hope they run afoul of live power or sharp edges.

And this building is how old and you're calling it obsolete[fixed that for you]? You know in Europe something 100 years old is quite modern, and they make use of quite everything, somehow. I'm assuming you don't get out much, though.

Ok are you seriously this dumb, or are you just willfully misrepresenting what I said? What I said was the building had outlived its purpose AND----sort of a key thing coming up here so you should pay attention....ready for it?....here it comes--- there is evidently no one interested in retrofitting it for any new use.

[Bham1982]

You know in Europe something 100 years old is quite modern, and they make use of quite everything, somehow. I'm assuming you don't get out much, though.

I always wonder if folks who repeat this canard have ever been to Europe.

European cities are generally modern. They generally feel more modern than Detroit city proper.

Rome's predominant style is Mussolini-era modernism. Spainish cities have been totally rebuilt. Germany's cities were a tabula rasa after WWII. British and Dutch cities are filled with boxy brutalist architecture.

The only predominately old European cities are cutesy tourist towns like Venice and Bruges.

As for Detroit, it can't save everything, and needs to prioritize. IMO, this building is not a priority.