Drink in hand on the streets of Detroit

[Gistok]

another shitty remark. he really is a good guy. this is all new to him

Maof... anybody that still uses that old stale "jump off a cliff" remark is.... well not exactly a sage of wisdom....

[Kevgoblue]

I'm surprised that this apparently educated, med school student is getting so much support. Seems pretty simple to me. He broke the law. He got caught. Pay the ticket.
What relavance is the excuse "other people were doing it"? When you get pulled over for speeding other people were doing that too. You just got caught.

I also agree with several of the earlier posters noting the "but I was in Detroit" excuse. I don't recall ever seeing people walking around with open drinks or slipping behind a building to relieve themselves when attending activies in places such as Dearborn or Birmingham. But somehow because he's in Detroit, this otherwise unacceptable behavior becomes OK.

Tell your son to pay his fine.

[GPCharles]

This activity is also a violation of state liquor laws by the licensed establishment. They can lose their license [[or less) for allowing a patron to walk outside [[meaning outside beyond their business limits, ie. not including a fenced-in area) with a poured drink.

[Maof]

. I'm curious to know was he ticketed for public intoxication or just having an open intoxicant?

open intoxicant. apparently, the officer nailed him the second he stepped out the door when others had already been standing out there.

[East Detroit]

Doesn't matter what others were doing.

Best course of action with the judge is to admit fault with no excuses, express remorse for the illegal activity, and ask for an opportunity to prove good intentions by offering to do community service or attend classes in exchange for an expunged record in 1 yr of no problems.

[Gistok]

Doesn't matter what others were doing.

Best course of action with the judge is to admit fault with no excuses, express remorse for the illegal activity, and ask for an opportunity to prove good intentions by offering to do community service or attend classes in exchange for an expunged record in 1 yr of no problems.

Not a bad idea.....

[majohnson]

Maof,

Your nephew is a criminal despite the fact that he has not broken every law on the books.
My point in mentioning that he was not acting to save a choking person was to say there was no extenuating circumstance that would justify an exception to a meaningful law.
Good exceptions to laws exist; your nephew on the other hand only has the excuse that he is not a hardened criminal.

I am sure your nephew would have gone back into the establishment upon a warning by the police. Perhaps unfortunately, that is not how our laws work. People most often face a consequence when caught by the police whether they are a hardened criminal or not.
Laws prohibiting drinking in public are not enforced simply to catch otherwise elusive criminals. The particular law is enforceable because although some neighborhoods are tolerant of a nearby drinking establishment they are not tolerant of people drinking in public view.
Drinking is not bad, drinking on the bar's patio/personal backyard is acceptable, drinking in front of the bar/in your frontyard is frowned upon.

In summary, you don't have to break laws b c and d to be guilty of breaking law a. Drinking in public is frowned upon by our society.
Perhaps a fine of $10 would be better suited and more expensive fees for a second offense.

[Planner3357]

Maof... anybody that still uses that old stale "jump off a cliff" remark is.... well not exactly a sage of wisdom....

First thing that came to my mind....guess I'm not as wise as I thought...

[Russix]

This is all covered under 38-5-1. The maximum penalty seems to be $400.
Don’t get a private attorney, they have a public one there for you who probably is way more familiar with these kind of cases. You can try “I thought it was garbage and picked it up to throw it away”. Your odds of getting this dismissed are probably a lot better then winning at the Casino.

[Maof]

This is all covered under 38-5-1. The maximum penalty seems to be $400.
Don’t get a private attorney, they have a public one there for you who probably is way more familiar with these kind of cases. You can try “I thought it was garbage and picked it up to throw it away”. Your odds of getting this dismissed are probably a lot better then winning at the Casino.

thanks russix...i'll let him know about the attorney..i'm quite sure he will be truthful. live and learn

[Russix]

thanks russix...i'll let him know.

Any chance you can post a follow up? Information regarding fines and penalities was not readily available. I pulled the $400 amount from the CAID SWAT fiassco.

[wolverine]

1. Have I ever had an open container on a public sidewalk? Yes
2. Did I think it was a good idea? No, it's breaking the law.
3. Get caught? Fortunately, no I was very lucky.
4. If caught, pay the fine? If caught I would have, because the law is the law and should be obeyed.
5. Does banning open containers reduce crime and eliminate nuisances? Of course it does it's been proven... That why the law exists in almost everywhere in America....yes you can still be ticketed with it concealed. It's up to the officer. Better hope they are in a good mood.

It was a dumb idiotic move back in college, and it could have set me back hundreds of dollars. At least I can admit fault like a decent citizen and promise to keep the can of beer inside, instead of trying to put up a fight

[Augustiner]

5. Does banning open containers reduce crime and eliminate nuisances? Of course it does it's been proven... That why the law exists in almost everywhere in America

I'm sorry, I'm going to need a bit more evidence that this is a good law besides "of course it's a good law, otherwise it wouldn't be a law!" There are a lot of dumb laws that exist "almost everywhere in America."

[Django]

Most of her postings are - you get used to it after awhile.

Word^

Gnome took the keys right from my fingertips, I think he should fight it, ask for a jury trial. Prosecutor will bump it down to practically nothing if it even gets that far. The cop might not even show up for court which means its thrown out. Use the court appointed attorney and tell him you want to go to trial. Its every Americans duty to fight laws which are obsolete, thats what our country is practically founded on, challenging the system, at least thats what it used to be.

No doubt he was profiled for his apparent ability to pay the fine with no questions asked. This could be a whole other thread, cash profiling.

[Thames]

My question is does he really need to get an attorney? Any thoughts?

Never, ever, enter a courtroom without proper representation. EVER! No matter what!

[softailrider]

Never, ever, enter a courtroom without proper representation. EVER! No matter what!

I'm sorry, I don't agree.That's way too much of a blanket statement, the " ever no matter what" just isn't true. Unless you're facing ANY type of a serious charge, then of course the above is true.

For a simple traffic ticket or something similar, often times an attorney is a waste of money.

[HomerStreet]

My nephew was recently ticketed for stepping outside of a bar in Detroit with a drink. Now, he wasn't the only one. Apparently, there was a group of them [[23ish) doing the same thing and he and a few others were ticketed when another handful were not. He is going to court next week and he wants to hire an attorney. I feel bad for him as he just graduated from nursing school and testing for med. school and quite frankly can't afford to pay an attorney.

My question is does he really need to get an attorney? In my opinion, I think the men in blue have more important things to do in the city then hand out tickets for something like this....maybe a "you can't have that out here" type warning. Any thoughts?

Ah, too bad we don't have the "To Go" Cup like New Orleans . . .

[Richard]

Lots of other cities have sidewalk cafe's or restaurants where drinking is allowed in the front ,nothing like enjoying a meal with a drink and cool evening breeze.

There is another section that was a run down neighborhood where some monied younger generation opened up a small club where the patrons stand out front behind a small border fence enjoying the evening and now it has become a destination with another 8 or so similar clubs opening up its become a cool place to hang out and have sort of a pub crawl of sorts without driving all over town.

It can be an enjoyable experience without adding the marti gras aspect.

[Mikeg]

I'm sorry, I don't agree.That's way too much of a blanket statement, the " ever no matter what" just isn't true. Unless you're facing ANY type of a serious charge, then of course the above is true.

For a simple traffic ticket or something similar, often times an attorney is a waste of money.

I have to agree with Thames in this situation. If it was my son, I wouldn't take the chance on the officer not showing or getting a court-appointed attorney or getting leniency. The kid is about to start a career in a licensed profession and the potential negative impact on his future employment warrants the expense of hiring an attorney before the court date and then following their advice.

[thnk2mch]

He should pay the fine.

Teach him to obey the laws, not how to get around them.

[Searay215]

I say just pay the ticket and move on....while its true the police should have better things to do, this is the law in most cities. As my father used to say....don't make a mountain out of a mole hill.

[Maof]

The kid is about to start a career in a licensed profession and the potential negative impact on his future employment warrants the expense of hiring an attorney before the court date and then following their advice.

and this is why i think he wants to do this it's really hanging over his head and he just wants to move on with his carrer plans.

[Roadmaster49]

Back on topic.

I think the word "fight it" is extreme. There is nothing wrong with "contesting it" Semantics maybe but relevant in a bigger picture.

OK. Contest it because it's a life experience and he will be better prepared the next time he needs to go to a court [[whether it's for payment of fines, as a jury member, witness, or other boring reasons)

2. Just state your case. You will probably lose but my case would be that there were others in the group that did not get ticketed and the law should have been enforced in it's entirety or not at all [[warning). I would request a trial and put the officer up there and ask him/her if he /she remembers others being present at the sidewalk that DID NOT get a ticket and ask why? If the officer is honest, maybe there is wiggle room or a reduced sentence.

3. Contest it because our society is becoming uber big brotherish. I was declined for a passprt last year because I have a child support Judgment. Now, I pay child support and have for years and it's seemlessly garnished BUT my point here is that 10 years ago I would have been able to get a passport. Now, every law enforcement agency - every governmental agency and credit report EVERYONE - knows your history.

So, he goes to get a nice fellowship after medical school and they run a report on him that shows an open container violation 5-6 years ago and now he is sitting in front of a review board having to explain it.

Might as well try and "contest" it.

[English]

Never, ever, enter a courtroom without proper representation. EVER! No matter what!

Thames is right.

[Mikeg]

and this is why i think he wants to do this it's really hanging over his head and he just wants to move on with his carrer plans.

Then encourage him to do it - even if he has to temporarily cut back somewhere on his budget to afford it! I think he's got better instincts than most on here and he instinctively knows that this could become one of those "pay me now or pay me later" situations.