What if a proposal to downsize Detroit happens?

[BrushStart]

So, what do you exurbers want? You know what us city-dwellers want- to focus energy and resources building up the city center because we think that doing so will stimulate growth and be smart for the future.

Is it your position that we should keep what we have and do nothing in the city center?

Do you think we should not address issues in the city and spend more money building up the exurbs?

Do you think everything is good right now?

I'm just confused...

[Vox]

So, what do you exurbers want? You know what us city-dwellers want- to focus energy and resources building up the city center because we think that doing so will stimulate growth and be smart for the future.

Is it your position that we should keep what we have and do nothing in the city center?

Do you think we should not address issues in the city and spend more money building up the exurbs?

Do you think everything is good right now?

I'm just confused...

Pouring resources and energy into a bottomless pit is fruitless. Until there is a realistic plan to fix the systemic deficiencies in Detroit, and elsewhere in Metro Detroit as well, there will be no possibility of any sort of growth anywhere in the region.

First and foremost, removing resources from exurban areas is never going to happen, so basically that's out as a solution. Their property taxes are paid by them for them, not you.

Secondly, if Detroit really wanted to grow, they will have to get their tax structure in line with reality. City taxes for property, as well as income, are really restricting growth. I suppose that that would call for the City Council and Mayor to use the laws passed by the Legislature, flawed as they are, to amend the expenditures that the city currently is on the hook for.

Third, shrinking the city, though unpopular, will have to happen, and soon.

And fixing the police and fire department as well is a must have. You have to be able to serve residents to have a viable city.

[Danny]

What if the EFM runs Detroit like a iron fist. Here's what he proposing under the Detroit's bankruptcy:

1. Cut up to 10 to 20% of the pay for all city workers. This would save the city over 10 to 20 million dollars a year.

2. Disassemble the city unions, end collective bargaining!

3. Resassemble police, fire and EMS. provide random surprise inspection for their services.

4. Make sure that most neighborhoods are closed for redevelopment, hunt down deliquent Detroit taxpayers and homeowners and give them 90 day notices for eviction.

5. Reassemble high, middle, and low income standards and credit point ratings for future home and businesses owners. Set up areas for Section 8 [[under Detroit Housing Comminsion) The area plans as it follows:

1a. The areas for Section 8 HUD [[ ADC, SSI, SSDI approved homes) will start at lower SW Detroit area near the River Rouge-Ecorse border futher northward behind the Dearborn border to Detroit's West Side east of the abandoned conrail tracks from the borders of Dearborn to further NW to the borders of Highland Park. The area includes Brightmoor Area in Detroit's Northwest Side.

2b. The areas for Section 8 HUD [[ ADC, SSI, SSDI approved homes) will in extended in Detroit parts of Northeast side at the Conant Gardens area south the conrail tracks futher southward [[ just east from Hamtranck Border) to further eastward to Conner Rd then futher southward to the Detroit River.


3b. These Section 8 HUD [[ ADC, SSI, SSDI approved homes) will be ramdomly inspected 4 times a year from the day the renter purchase a Detroit home or apartment. The owner or tenent MUST be present for inspection. If the owner ot tenent is not home without notification, it will be notified by a letter of case action and appointment rescheduling. Any such violations will result of fines or first offense and eviction for 2nd offense. If eviction is issued the tenent or owner has 90 days to vacate the building. Once the building is vacated. It must be ramdomly checked. Silent alarms must be in place in vacant buildings in case of theft. Those who are a sex-offender list will puchase a home or apt 500 yards away from public or private school building.


4c. The homes, businesses and apts at the NW Detroit Ares the border Section 8 HUD [[ ADC, SSI, SSDI approved homes) to the suburban borders will be reseved for middle income families with a starting job and excellent credit rating. The will receive Neighborhood Empowerment Zone's 60% tax deduction for 15 years. The homes will not be rented out to those who had Section 8 HUD [[ ADC, SSI, SSDI approved homes) only to family members or person with a job or good credit rating. Those who had poor credit score, criminal record or on the sex-offender list history of accidental or [[on purpose) house or apt. fire [[more than once) are not eligible to buy or rent a Detroit home. Real Estate agents and landlords who violate these city codes will face heavy fines or 5 to 10 year imprisonment.


WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

Now that's a great ideal for bettet Detroit are Neda's sake.

[Detroitnerd]

Yes, we have to shrink the city because ... oh, but wait: We wouldn't have to shrink the city if were competitive enough to grow. So, on the one hand, we must shrink the city because it is a failure, but then if Detroit were competitive, we would want to see it grow. This is a psychotic point of view that makes no sense. Follow the trajectory of how a region swirls down the bowl.

Take regional resources and pour them into building outside the city.

Affluent residents and businesses leave the city, flooding over into the suburbs.

The city increasingly becomes a place with poor people, poor leadership and poor infrastructure.

The suburban areas, not having to pay for social programs, poor people, etc., enjoy a tremendous boon from the way the city is a dumping ground for poor people.

As more and more people of means leave the city, the city gets increasingly bankrupt, dysfunctional and ghettoized.

Well-fed, pink suburbanites now lambaste their traditional city center, heaping more invective and bad PR on it than any out-of-stater.

This worsens the business climate for the whole region, but to people who live in "Commerce" or "Bingham Farms" they feel unaffected.

As cities across the country begin to reinvest in their cities, suburban Detroiters come up with plans to erase the central city, thereby helping the region lose 10 years of prosperity and development.

Finally, after 70 years of heaping angry rhetoric on their central city, suburbanites complain that they're associated with a city that most people view negatively.

After 70 years of poaching residents and businesses from Detroit, profiting while Detroit's tax base erodes and its government gets more corrupt, angry suburbanites say shame on Detroit for its high taxes, corrupt leadership and utter poverty.

After 70 years of hammering their central city, siphoning off its businesses, its people of means, its civic assets -- being passive benificiaries of the city's destruction -- suburbanites finally say that they'll change their mind about Detroit; but it has to "pull itself up by its bootstraps" first, and nobody will help.

Frankly, some of the people on this forum are happy to talk in circles on and on, but they will never admit the truth. They are afraid of minorities. They are afraid of poor people. They regard any effort at regionalism as communism. They just want to live in 1962 forever and ever, and will never acknowledge any of the basic simple facts that keep this region in the shitter. Frankly, for all their complaining about Detroit, they are absolutely satisfied to live next to a place they call a shithole, not to mention some of the choicer words they use when there are no melaninistic folks around ...

There's no changing your minds, for all your attempts at appearing open-minded. What a shame all wisdom must die with you...

[j to the jeremy]

I'll avoid all the off-topic bickering, but Danny, did you just pull all these addresses and HUGE swaths of land out of your ass? Is this just a hypothetical idea of what you think Bing wants to close?

To keep the real purpose of the thread going, here's in interesting graphic from the New York Times which shows the 3000 houses slated for abatement this year are skewed into a few areas

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...IT.html?ref=us

[Vox]

There's no changing your minds, for all your attempts at appearing open-minded. Just fuckin' die already.

Yessir, quite the nice racist rant. How do you explain the mass exodus of the melanistic type people that are leaving the city?

[Novine]

"First and foremost, removing resources from exurban areas is never going to happen, so basically that's out as a solution. Their property taxes are paid by them for them, not you. "

Exurbanites believe this to be true but it's not. Exurban living is subsidized to a degree that few exurbanites will acknowledge. Many who live out there couldn't afford the true cost of their lifestyle if they had to pay the full freight of their choice. But we pretend otherwise and call everyone else a freeloader when the truth isn't so clear-cut. The irony is that you complain about Detroit being a drain on regional growth but exurban growth is equally harmful to the success of the region, maybe more so. Trying to recreate the suburbs further and further away from the city is tremendously wasteful and tremendously expensive.

[Vox]

"First and foremost, removing resources from exurban areas is never going to happen, so basically that's out as a solution. Their property taxes are paid by them for them, not you. "

Exurbanites believe this to be true but it's not. Exurban living is subsidized to a degree that few exurbanites will acknowledge. Many who live out there couldn't afford the true cost of their lifestyle if they had to pay the full freight of their choice. But we pretend otherwise and call everyone else a freeloader when the truth isn't so clear-cut. The irony is that you complain about Detroit being a drain on regional growth but exurban growth is equally harmful to the success of the region, maybe more so. Trying to recreate the suburbs further and further away from the city is tremendously wasteful and tremendously expensive.

Detroit IS a drain on reegional growth in it's current form and function. Other places are needing to subsidize their own inefficiencies, as well. Why should Detroit be any more priveleged than any other place in the state? It's already got casinos, tax structure, and every other little thing tilted in it's favor, and STILL manages to fuck that up.

[lincoln8740]

Frankly, some of the people on this forum are happy to talk in circles on and on, but they will never admit the truth. They are afraid of minorities. They are afraid of poor people. They regard any effort at regionalism as communism. They just want to live in 1962 forever and ever, and will never acknowledge any of the basic simple facts that keep this region in the shitter. Frankly, for all their complaining about Detroit, they are absolutely satisfied to live next to a place they call a shithole, not to mention some of the choicer words they use when there are no melaninistic folks around ....

How dare they want to live in a safe neighborhood with good schools!! Racists!!!

There's no changing your minds, for all your attempts at appearing open-minded. Just fuckin' die already.[/QUOTE]

Nice!!!

[Detroitnerd]

No worries. I know you post here about "good schools" and "property values" and "excellent services." But I know the type. And I know what you guys talk about when it's whites-only, and it sounds like 1943. That's why I'm just going to have to write you off as far as trying to convince you of anything. Why you keep showing up here with your code words and "what, me, racist?" tomfoolery is beyond me. You are completely happy to have whole parts of the region drowning in debt, corruption and poverty, so long as you have yours and you're miles away from the pain. And, of course, as long as you have your generously subsidized Suburbia, while you complain about the "drain" of the city that you ensure day to day will never see a penny of your investment as long as you live.

Must we all collectively wait for you to die before we can build a better region? I'm beginning to think so.

[lincoln8740]

No worries. I know you post here about "good schools" and "property values" and "excellent services.".

Aren't the above three terms a great thing to have associated with the place that you live?

But I know the type. And I know what you guys talk about when it's whites-only, and it sounds like 1943. That's why I'm just going to have to write you off as far as trying to convince you of anything. Why you keep showing up here with your code words and "what, me, racist?" tomfoolery is beyond me.

Do you have to present the " I am a good white liberal" card in every conversation?

.

You are completely happy to have whole parts of the region drowning in debt, corruption and poverty, so long as you have yours and you're miles away from the pain. And, of course, as long as you have your generously subsidized Suburbia, while you complain about the "drain" of the city that you ensure day to day will never see a penny of your investment as long as you live..

Uh dude I own and operate a business in the City so me thinks that I may be paying a little more in tax dollars to City of Detroit then you.

Must we all collectively wait for you to die before we can build a better region? I'm beginning to think so.

Not really, all you have to do is find a steady supply of Hippster Doffus people and whamo! you can all open up independently run stores that charge triple the price!!!

[Detroitnerd]

Aren't the above three terms a great thing to have associated with the place that you live?

Yes, and that is why white racists use those code words instead of saying that there aren't any ni&&ers there. Sounds much more sophisticated.

Do you have to present the " I am a good white liberal" card in every conversation?

To the best of my knowledge, whites only play "race cards" when they point out the white racism they see. In white code-speak, it's called playing the good, white, liberal card. In private, during that smoke break out in the garage, they use the old, 1940s term, ni&&er-lover. I think that's the rough translation, anyway.

Uh dude I own and operate a business in the City so me thinks that I may be paying a little more in tax dollars to City of Detroit then you.

Uh, "dude," I live and work in Detroit, but as a citizen of Detroit, I have just as much democratic say as ... as anybody who lives here. Does that gall you? I kinda hope it does ... "dude."

[313WX]

Uh dude I own and operate a business in the City so me thinks that I may be paying a little more in tax dollars to City of Detroit then you.

And that said, if you hate the city so much then why do you operate a business in it?

[lincoln8740]

Yes, and that is why white racists use those code words instead of saying that there aren't any ni&&ers there. Sounds much more sophisticated.."

"good schools" " good property values" and "excellent services." are now terms that are coded racist speak?

Did someone just take a urban studies course at WCCC? How cute!

Uh, "dude," I live and work in Detroit, but as a citizen of Detroit, I have just as much democratic say as ... as anybody who lives here. Does that gall you? I kinda hope it does ... "dude."

Let me re-quote what you are referencing


"You are completely happy to have whole parts of the region drowning in debt, corruption and poverty, so long as you have yours and you're miles away from the pain. And, of course, as long as you have your generously subsidized Suburbia, while you complain about the "drain" of the city that you ensure day to day will never see a penny of your investment as long as you live..

So let me say it very simply--I run a business in Detroit so the claim that I do not "Invest" in the City is quite a large piece of horse shit.

[Detroitnerd]

"good schools" " good property values" and "excellent services." are now terms that are coded racist speak?

Did someone just take a urban studies course at WCCC? How cute!

No, somebody grew up in lily-white Dearborn and knows a whiff of racist horseshit when he smells it.

Let me re-quote what you are referencing

"You are completely happy to have whole parts of the region drowning in debt, corruption and poverty, so long as you have yours and you're miles away from the pain. And, of course, as long as you have your generously subsidized Suburbia, while you complain about the "drain" of the city that you ensure day to day will never see a penny of your investment as long as you live..

So let me say it very simply--I run a business in Detroit so the claim that I do not "Invest" in the City is quite a large piece of horse shit.

Oh, that wasn't necessarily directed at you. What I'm talking about is taking any regional TAX money and putting it into investing in the central city. This is where you hear plenty of cries of "dumping money down a hole" or "communism" or "financial drain" or "paying for them uppity ni&&ers." Not your business; taking regional funds and directing them into making a better Detroit. This causes a great hue and cry.

But the truth is that the exurban areas probably get more subsidies, region-wide, than Detroit does. And any effort to examine that leads to chest-thumping suburbanites mewling cute little one-liners about sociology courses and such.

Like I said, man, I know the type. Why you wanna ramble on and fill out the profile is beyond me.

[lincoln8740]

And that said, if you hate the city so much then why do you operate a business in it?

Real Estate. The property value is so low down there its the operation of the business that makes money not the building/land value. Believe me, if dip shit out of town bankers were giving away million dollar mortgages on property that is actually worth 200k like they were in 2005--yes I would be gone in an instant.

[lincoln8740]

Like I said, man, I know the type. Why you wanna ramble on and fill out the profile is beyond me.

Hippster dooffus says what?

[Detroitnerd]

Hippster dooffus says what?

Chicken-butt.

[NorthEndere]

And, here I get suspended for a few days for drawing light to Danny's crazy ramblings.

This discussion - among many others on this board - show exactly why Metro Detroit [[the whole damned thing) is a hopeless pit of misery. I'm just glad I've finally been able to get over fooling myself into believing there is still hope, there, and any significant amount.

If I'm to be completely honest, I only continue to come back here because of the car-wreck aspect of both the forum and the metro area, particularly to watch the delusions of those who live in the suburbs who still believe they've dodged a bullet, when anyone outside of the region with any vision can see that the whole place is something of a failed state.

[Novine]

"Detroit IS a drain on reegional growth in it's current form and function. Other places are needing to subsidize their own inefficiencies, as well. Why should Detroit be any more priveleged than any other place in the state? It's already got casinos, tax structure, and every other little thing tilted in it's favor, and STILL manages to fuck that up."

First off, none of this has anything to do with the false claims that Detroit is the only drain on the region. Most exurban development is subsidized in the same way that you claim Detroit is subsidized. As for the claim that everything is tilted in Detroit's favor, you have a very distorted view of privilege. Is Detroit privileged over the exurbs in having to provide for the vast majority of the region's poor while those in the exurbs run away from that burden?