Oakland County plans downtown Pontiac campus, demolition of Phoenix Center

**Airforceguy** · May-24-23, 04:34 PM

"A plan for an Oakland County outpost would bring hundreds of employees to downtown Pontiac.

"The county is attempting to buy the two-building Ottawa Towers to turn at least one of the properties into a central business district hub as part of a $19.2 million purchase agreement, County Executive David Coulter said.

"In the end, the county would also buy the Phoenix Center parking garage and rooftop amphitheater from the city and tear it down as part of a satellite campus that would ultimately cost about $114 million, Coulter said. That includes an $85 million buy-in from the state or 74.6% of the cost.It's not known in what ways the state would participate in financing the project.

"Bill Mullan, public information office for Oakland County, said the county is "talking to legislators and the Whitmer administration about how the state could support this effort as they work on the budget over the next several weeks."

"Coulter said "without a commitment from our friends in Lansing," a financing gap would prevent the project from moving forward. He anticipates an answer on whether the state will contribute funding by early next month."

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-e...er-add-offices

**Gistok** · May-24-23, 07:52 PM

Oakland County does have one of the most ugly and spread out county government campus locations on Pontiac's edge along Telegraph Rd.

On the flip side, Macomb County has so much of its' "County Seat" offices in downtown Mt. Clemens... in a very nice layout. Sadly the M-59 sprawl corridor sucked a lot of the retail out of downtown Mt. Clemens.

**Burnsie** · May-24-23, 08:44 PM

Does the article mention anything about putting Saginaw St. back in at the parking ramp site? So stupid to have gotten rid of it but par for the course in "urban redevelopment" back then.

**Danny** · May-25-23, 05:16 AM

About time! I had walking in Downtown Pontiac and look like a ghost town. I would like to see Phoenix Center transformed into a shopping/commercial district great for venues. Not a big old parking lot and more parking garages.

**Danny** · May-25-23, 05:18 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Oakland County does have one of the most ugly and spread out county government campus locations on Pontiac's edge along Telegraph Rd.

On the flip side, Macomb County has so much of its' "County Seat" offices in downtown Mt. Clemens... in a very nice layout. Sadly the M-59 sprawl corridor sucked a lot of the retail out of downtown Mt. Clemens.

Yes, the M-59 Stroad that sucked the life out of Lakeside Mall, too.

**sirrealone** · May-25-23, 08:18 AM

Partridge Creek was what killed off Lakeside. They added a hundred new store fronts and three anchor spots two miles down the road from a mall that already had two hundred store fronts and five anchor spots. Chains weren't going to open a second store that close, so there was no possible way both malls could thrive.

**Jimaz** · May-25-23, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by sirrealone

Partridge Creek was what killed off Lakeside. They added a hundred new store fronts and three anchor spots two miles down the road from a mall that already had two hundred store fronts and five anchor spots. Chains weren't going to open a second store that close, so there was no possible way both malls could thrive.

I have always wondered about that. It's pretty obvious from just looking at a map. Surely someone must have raised an objection when that Partridge Creek location was proposed. Someone else must have offered a countering justification for the proximity. What was that justification? Has putting two malls that close together ever worked anywhere else?

Not that I care. It just stands out as one of those obvious gaffs that never gets questioned. Kind of like exploding air bags in people's faces and calling them safety devices. LOL!

**sirrealone** · May-25-23, 11:40 AM

For one, Lakeside is in Sterling Heights and Partridge Creek is in Clinton Township. Clinton Township just saw dollar signs, and probably didn't care about the effect of their neighboring community. There might be a little more regionalism nowadays following the Great Recession, but clearly not as much back then.

I think there was a fair amount of skepticism about this, even back then. But, Taubman wanted to do it, and even though the mall concept was showing signs of cracking, he was still the leader in the industry and got what he wanted. Since the Great Recession hadn't yet happened, nor had the major shift to online and big box shopping, I guess there weren't people lining up to talk him out of it.

**Johnnny5** · May-25-23, 01:08 PM

I'd like to see downtown Pontiac come back more than most, but is this really the best use of taxpayer dollars? A couple miles North of there the current county complex already exists with everything close together, and plenty of room for any expansion [[If needed). Why spend so many taxpayer dollars just to build what already exists?

**Lowell** · May-25-23, 07:17 PM

Recently from Downtown Pontiac.

Phoenix Center parking structure eyesore.

Downtown Pontiac with Phoenix Center in distance to the south.

**masterblaster** · May-26-23, 06:52 AM

One reason why the Phoenix Center failed is because they only half built it

The 1965-80 Pontiac Plan, envisioned by Pontiac resident, businessman and University of Detroit Professor C. Don Davidson, was designed to be a concentrated development of high-rise office buildings, apartment towers and hotel facilities intertwined with commercial shopping facilities, an art museum, performance theater, an 8,000 seat sports arena, restaurants and convalescent facilities for the elderly. A park plaza on the upper level of a 3-tier parking structure[[later known as the Phoenix Center was to allow for the separation of the pedestrian from the automobile with a main thoroughfare [[Orchard Lake rd.) passing through the center, lower level of the structure.

The entire Pontiac Plan was proposed to be built in three phases. Only a part of the first phase, consisting of three office buildings, a multilevel parking structure, a senior apartment high rise and a transportation center were ever built.

http://dondavidson.blogspot.com/2009...have-been.html

Maybe the parking garage could have been utilized if Pontiac had retained Arts, Beats and Eats and been able to attracts other large events. Having the top of the parking garage as an outdoor event space was a great usage of space.

**Lowell** · May-26-23, 07:32 AM

The Phoenix Center's core problem was similar to that of the Renaissance Center's when it opened. Both were built in a crime-anxiety era and displayed a fortress mentality in an attempt to say "you are safe here".

There were set apart and walled off from the rest of their downtowns--the RenCen with its now-removed berms, Phoenix with its parking lots. Neither flowed naturally into their downtowns and both the downtowns and the projects suffered. [Click image for larger view]

Those of you who have been around this forum for some time will recall this being given the humorous architectural style nickname of "Ghetto Renaissance", nearly windowless structures with barriers. The now long-gone Highland Park High School on Woodward was a classic example.