Light rail produces a burst of development, but not everywhere

[mwilbert]

Woodward bus shouldn't take an hour from Seven Mile to downtown, not to say it never happens. And if you're going to Midtown, it should be less than a half-hour, and then you probably don't want to wait unless you dislike buses. Of course most of the time you won't be waiting 15 minutes.

I'm just hoping that whatever schedule they run on, they are able to keep reasonably close to it. That will make the whole thing much more attractive.

[EL Jimbo]

The only way I could see to serve someplace as far out as Farmington is by commuter rail. Frankly, I-96 is never clogged, always super-speedy, has its own express lanes. If we have a real, growing center downtown, then there's a likely argument for commuter rail to link Farm/Novi with downtown, at speeds and comfort levels comparable to I-96, without the parking.

Also, Farmington is not well set up to benefit from light rail in the first place; sure, it has a few nodes of density, but it's very car-oriented. Better to have a park-and-ride station there.

The problem with Commuter Rail through Novi/Farmington area are two fold.

1. There isn't an existing rail line that runs anywhere near Farmington.

2. The line running through Novi runs North/South and doesn't turn east until you get to Plymouth. Even then, that line isn't a straight shot. That rail line goes due east until it gets to about Evergreen and the Jeffries then heads southeast to John Kronk and Wyoming, then follows Kronk until you either ends up at MCS or the track heading northeast up to the Amtrak station in New Center.

For that matter, any train coming from Lansing, Howell, and South Lyon would also have to go through the junction at Plymouth in order to get to Detroit as well.

[Detroitnerd]

The problem with Commuter Rail through Novi/Farmington area are two fold.

1. There isn't an existing rail line that runs anywhere near Farmington.

2. The line running through Novi runs North/South and doesn't turn east until you get to Plymouth. Even then, that line isn't a straight shot. That rail line goes due east until it gets to about Evergreen and the Jeffries then heads southeast to John Kronk and Wyoming, then follows Kronk until you either ends up at MCS or the track heading northeast up to the Amtrak station in New Center.

For that matter, any train coming from Lansing, Howell, and South Lyon would also have to go through the junction at Plymouth in order to get to Detroit as well.

Welp, that just about sums it up. Places like Farmington did well for so long because there was "nothing in the way," or nothing to stand in the way of ultimate car-culture development. So, these are now the lowest priorities for establishing rail links. They're ill-suited for it, the type of person who lives there likely won't use it, so I'm not going to be too concerned about it, other than to say that we shouldn't extend light rail out that far if it's going to cripple its effectiveness in city limits.

[EL Jimbo]

Welp, that just about sums it up. Places like Farmington did well for so long because there was "nothing in the way," or nothing to stand in the way of ultimate car-culture development. So, these are now the lowest priorities for establishing rail links. They're ill-suited for it, the type of person who lives there likely won't use it, so I'm not going to be too concerned about it, other than to say that we shouldn't extend light rail out that far if it's going to cripple its effectiveness in city limits.

I agree. I still think I light rail line on Grand River as far as Telegraph would work.

[Hermod]

That's a streetcar there, buddy. Not quite light rail.

What do you think that "light rail" operated on the street right-of-way is? It is a street car.

Light rail on private right-of-way either at grade, elevated, or sunken would be something different than a streetcar.

[ghettopalmetto]

What do you think that "light rail" operated on the street right-of-way is? It is a street car.

Light rail on private right-of-way either at grade, elevated, or sunken would be something different than a streetcar.

You might want to explain that to Portland Tri-Met, Sound Transit [[Seattle) and the Toronto Transit Commission, which both operate light rail AND streetcar. The difference is more than whether-or-not the vehicle runs in the street.

The only such thing as a "private right-of-way" in the United States is a freight railroad or a driveway intended exclusively for providing access from a public roadway to private property. I'm not sure what you mean by this term.

[Hermod]

You might want to explain that to Portland Tri-Met, Sound Transit [[Seattle) and the Toronto Transit Commission, which both operate light rail AND streetcar. The difference is more than whether-or-not the vehicle runs in the street.

The only such thing as a "private right-of-way" in the United States is a freight railroad or a driveway intended exclusively for providing access from a public roadway to private property. I'm not sure what you mean by this term.

A subway is "private right-of-way". Washington metro [[part subway and part above ground is "private right-of-way".

An elevated light rail is private right-of-way.

You have several light rail systems with private rights of way.

Private right-of-way means that the tracks are not shared with automobiles. It could still have grade crossings, but no parallel conflicts with autos [[right turners for curb running and left turners for middle of street running). The interurban systems that lasted the longest in the US did have their own rights of way.

[ghettopalmetto]

A subway is "private right-of-way". Washington metro [[part subway and part above ground is "private right-of-way".

An elevated light rail is private right-of-way.

You have several light rail systems with private rights of way.

Private right-of-way means that the tracks are not shared with automobiles. It could still have grade crossings, but no parallel conflicts with autos [[right turners for curb running and left turners for middle of street running). The interurban systems that lasted the longest in the US did have their own rights of way.

I think you mean "dedicated" right-of-way. The term "private" has connotations with ownership and access. To use your example, the right-of-way of the Washington Metro is owned by a public agency.

[DetroitPlanner]

The problem with Commuter Rail through Novi/Farmington area are two fold.

1. There isn't an existing rail line that runs anywhere near Farmington.

2. The line running through Novi runs North/South and doesn't turn east until you get to Plymouth. Even then, that line isn't a straight shot. That rail line goes due east until it gets to about Evergreen and the Jeffries then heads southeast to John Kronk and Wyoming, then follows Kronk until you either ends up at MCS or the track heading northeast up to the Amtrak station in New Center.

For that matter, any train coming from Lansing, Howell, and South Lyon would also have to go through the junction at Plymouth in order to get to Detroit as well.

Add to this there is no public support for transit in Novi as evidenced by thier opt out of SMART. It is doubtful that if they do not support the regional bus system regional rail would fare any better.

[EL Jimbo]

Add to this there is no public support for transit in Novi as evidenced by thier opt out of SMART. It is doubtful that if they do not support the regional bus system regional rail would fare any better.

That's fine. There doesn't have to be a stop. In all honesty, South Lyon would be a better choice for a stop anyway because the tracks run within walking distance of "downtown" South Lyon. Whether Novi wants a stop or not, is up to them, but if a commuter line ever connected Lansing and Detroit, the train would pass through Novi. I could care less if they wanted the stop. I was never much of a fan of Novi even when I lived in South Lyon.

[Russix]

I agree. I still think I light rail line on Grand River as far as Telegraph would work.

Just checked the old 2007 corridor evaluation: http://www.detroittransit.org/UserFi...ing%202007.pdf Looks like 8 mile would be the terminus for Grand River. Although Grand River is #4 on the list of corridor priorities. Michigan Ave is #2 and that goes to Telegraph.

[ghettopalmetto]

Just checked the old 2007 corridor evaluation: http://www.detroittransit.org/UserFi...ing%202007.pdf Looks like 8 mile would be the terminus for Grand River. Although Grand River is #4 on the list of corridor priorities. Michigan Ave is #2 and that goes to Telegraph.

Makes sense. Grand River from Campus Martius to 8 Mile is about 16 miles--which is approaching the limit of efficiency for a light rail line.

[esp1986]

New blurb from Bill Shea:
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ean-end-of-the

What did the parade do back in the 20s, 30s and 40s before the rails were picked up then? I know there were overhead wires and a median running system.

Also good news that it will be built in one fell swoop rather than two separate projects... all or nothing, so not another people mover...

[Vox]

New blurb from Bill Shea:
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ean-end-of-the

What did the parade do back in the 20s, 30s and 40s before the rails were picked up then? I know there were overhead wires and a median running system.

Also good news that it will be built in one fell swoop rather than two separate projects... all or nothing, so not another people mover...

What they did was not have balloons. And much smaller floats.

[mwilbert]

There is no shortage of streets, but It would be a golden opportunity to figure out something festive other than balloons.

[SpartanTom]

New blurb from Bill Shea:
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ean-end-of-the

What did the parade do back in the 20s, 30s and 40s before the rails were picked up then? I know there were overhead wires and a median running system.

Also good news that it will be built in one fell swoop rather than two separate projects... all or nothing, so not another people mover...

I'm glad the project seems to be on the fast track, and really glad it's being built out to 8-mile from the start. I think Ferndale and Royal Oak will want their own rail stops soon after.