Letter from Europe

**gazhekwe** · April-11-11, 08:52 AM

Remembering the French religious incursions into the New World, it is hard to imagine how they could have come so far as to outlaw religious expression in public. The Anishinaabe name for the French people is Wemtigozhii, referring to the cross they carried. Their entire mission was to convert to Catholicism. In this latest wave of secularism, it seems the pendulum has just about reached its outer limits on the other side, similar to the Soviet Union.

**Barbara Nadel** · April-12-11, 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

Remembering the French religious incursions into the New World, it is hard to imagine how they could have come so far as to outlaw religious expression in public. The Anishinaabe name for the French people is Wemtigozhii, referring to the cross they carried. Their entire mission was to convert to Catholicism. In this latest wave of secularism, it seems the pendulum has just about reached its outer limits on the other side, similar to the Soviet Union.

I agree, I'm not comfortable with it either. But I live in a country that is nominally religious. We do have a state religion here, while France does not. The turning point for them was their revolution of course which we didn't have here. I am one of those people who believes that government should be secular but I don't like things like this latest French move, I do think it is limiting people's freedom.

**ronaldj** · April-17-11, 02:22 PM

Barbara:
It was a pleasure to host you at our house. I am sure Django and Gannon showed you some great and curious places of the town. When I was a regular traveller to London, I walked like a madman all over town. Day and night. The trick to crossing the street was to look in the right direction. I am lucky to have arrived home after a couple of mishaps.

I am glad you were able to visit Georgia Street Community Gardens and Neighborhood Center. Mark is doing a wonderful thing and Sumas and I think very highly of him and the people he has pulled together.

I am glad you had a good visit and look forward to reading your letters and the hard copy/electronic version of your views.

The letter idea is great. Maybe we can eventually beat out the the posts on the Garwood Mansion.

Living in Detroit gives us access to CBC Radio2. Good music. Substantial news.

Looking forward to your next visit.

Keep following the forum. Whitehouse has some interesting and insightful posts.
Best Regards,
Ronaldj

GUSHI · April-17-11, 07:39 PM

They can always leave France and go back to were they came from. My neighbor is turkisk and she doen"t wear on, I have been to two European countries with heavy muslim populations, and I didn't really see any females wearing them. Ifyou have to cover up in some middle eastern countries to obey there law, you must obey French law.

Originally Posted by Pam

I think that is going too far in limiting personal freedom. People should be able to wear what they want.
I do support the idea of a secular government though. I think they can have one without going that far.

**Pam** · April-17-11, 08:18 PM

They can always leave France and go back to were they came from

Why assume anyone religious who would be affected by this is from somewhere else? I am sure many are French citizens.

GUSHI · April-17-11, 08:32 PM

They still have to obey the law, regardless, or get in trouble for not following the law. If someone doesn't like the law of the country that they are living in, the person has the option to leave the country or start a revolt.

**Barbara Nadel** · April-18-11, 04:34 AM

Originally Posted by GUSHI

They still have to obey the law, regardless, or get in trouble for not following the law. If someone doesn't like the law of the country that they are living in, the person has the option to leave the country or start a revolt.

I take your point. But I still think that it's not good that a western nation is limiting freedom of expression and as Pam says a lot of these ladies may very well be French and therefore have nowhere else to go. Also there is, of course, a political dimension which is that 2012 is General Election year in France and Nicholas Sarkozy wants to maximise his chances of re-election by appealing to the Right. Like our own PM he has been suffering from poor ratings and so anything he can do to boost them he will do. That's why I think that he and David Cameron are so keen to get stuck in in Libya. There's nothing like a little war to boost those numbers! Cynical I know, but I can remember how the Falklands War revived the ghastly Margaret Thatcher's ailing career back in the 80s.

**Barbara Nadel** · April-18-11, 04:41 AM

Lovely to hear from everyone, especially Ron. I loved visiting Sumas and Ron at their home and really enjoyed their warmth and hospitality. It's warm and sunny here today and the moors look amazing, but city creature that I am, all I can think about was Detroit. Before I visited I heard people say that the place gets under your skin but I didn't really 'get it' until I visited. Maybe it's because I'm an east Londoner with all that history of the long gone docks, engineering works and factories behind me. I don't know. All I can tell you is that it's really got to me in a way that no other city [[apart from my home town and Istanbul) ever has. It's a lot down to people, of course, but also to spirit of place too. In spite of the relative quiet downtown, Detroit is alive and I felt alive when I was in it. Just thought I'd share that on a Monday morning. Here? Royal wedding, royal wedding, royal wedding. Think I may REALLY be royal wedding-ed out by the time it actually comes!

**Pam** · April-18-11, 05:44 AM

Originally Posted by GUSHI

They still have to obey the law, regardless, or get in trouble for not following the law. If someone doesn't like the law of the country that they are living in, the person has the option to leave the country or start a revolt.

Or try to get the law repealed.

**sumas** · April-19-11, 07:14 AM

We need to exchange weather. It snowed yesterday and is raining today. Can't work in weather like this. My vocation is gardening and landscape. My partner is 5 years older than me. We kind of thought we need to change our company name to Dirty Old Ladies.

Django still won't tell me where he took you on tour.

Detroiters are the best. For a city called a Murder Capital it is so damn friendly. Too bad we can't dump our politicians. They still haven't discovered the eastside. Ken Cockrel might be an exeption.

My husband has traveled the world but I never go anywhere. Juarez Mexico was my big tripwhen I lived in New Mexico. Of course have been all over Canada. Great country and serious good people too. Haven't been there though in a while. I am disturbed that I need a passport now to go to a "friendly" adjacent country.

**Barbara Nadel** · April-19-11, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by sumas

We need to exchange weather. It snowed yesterday and is raining today. Can't work in weather like this. My vocation is gardening and landscape. My partner is 5 years older than me. We kind of thought we need to change our company name to Dirty Old Ladies.

Django still won't tell me where he took you on tour.

Detroiters are the best. For a city called a Murder Capital it is so damn friendly. Too bad we can't dump our politicians. They still haven't discovered the eastside. Ken Cockrel might be an exeption.

My husband has traveled the world but I never go anywhere. Juarez Mexico was my big tripwhen I lived in New Mexico. Of course have been all over Canada. Great country and serious good people too. Haven't been there though in a while. I am disturbed that I need a passport now to go to a "friendly" adjacent country.

The passport thing is weird. People sometimes think that in Europe we don't need passports to pass from one country to the other, but we do. I think that years ago when the EU was formed the idea was to have no passports, but that never actually happened. Although I must say that we don't get what you'd call any sort of aggravation in places like France and Spain. Sorry about your weather! Honestly Spring, you just can't tell. I can recall Easter's over here where it's snowed for days! Thank goodness this is not going to be one of them. I'll have a word with Django!

**gazhekwe** · April-19-11, 10:52 AM

Well, I think, in the world according to Gushi, everyone over here should be wearing natural clothing made from the gifts of the Mother Earth instead of all this artificial stuff, and speaking the native language, Anishinaabemowin in this neck of the woods. The news would travel by mkiznin instead of phone and internet and airwaves. The thing is, the Anishinaabe did not make laws restricting others' behavior. I guess that's why we are in the pass we are today.

**Barbara Nadel** · April-21-11, 09:27 AM

Happy Easter to everyone that applies to and happy Spring and whatever to everyone else. We've just had the lambing up here in the middle of nowhere and our fields are brimming with crazy skittery things that go baa. A lovely time of year. That said it is my aim to eat and lot of chocolate and read a book about arsenic poisoning. Such is the life of the crime writer.

**sumas** · April-26-11, 05:13 AM

When my boys were young I would send them and my husband for hair cuts before Easter, always called that the spring shearing.

Went into a party store Monday in a inner ring suburb. A nice looking well dressed older gent was buying a 1/2 galleon of expensive bourbon and two chocolate Snicker candy bars. I lifted an eye brow and asked, Dinner? He chuckled and said yes that he had forgotten to eat candy on Easter.

Django got your package but he is out of town, will be back today. He was pleased you remembered.

Just a slice of city life. Junked the Taurus for $357, bought a Cougar for $300 but it is worth $450 just to junk. Selling it $600, buying a big F 350 in mint shape for a fantastic price, Even with the $$$ increase [[hugh) in gas there are still businesses that need those work horses. Plan to sell that at a decent profit Putting that profit into inventory for a weekend open air stall I run at a local Farmer's market. Expect to net maybe $4000 to Five K by the end

What will I do with this profit? Pay a portion of my ridiculous city property taxes. I love my house obviously.

Life in the city.

**Barbara Nadel** · April-26-11, 06:39 AM

Originally Posted by sumas

When my boys were young I would send them and my husband for hair cuts before Easter, always called that the spring shearing.

Went into a party store Monday in a inner ring suburb. A nice looking well dressed older gent was buying a 1/2 galleon of expensive bourbon and two chocolate Snicker candy bars. I lifted an eye brow and asked, Dinner? He chuckled and said yes that he had forgotten to eat candy on Easter.

Django got your package but he is out of town, will be back today. He was pleased you remembered.

Just a slice of city life. Junked the Taurus for $357, bought a Cougar for $300 but it is worth $450 just to junk. Selling it $600, buying a big F 350 in mint shape for a fantastic price, Even with the $$$ increase [[hugh) in gas there are still businesses that need those work horses. Plan to sell that at a decent profit Putting that profit into inventory for a weekend open air stall I run at a local Farmer's market. Expect to net maybe $4000 to Five K by the end

What will I do with this profit? Pay a portion of my ridiculous city property taxes. I love my house obviously.

Life in the city.

Honestly, cars! What can you do? I'm still running with the oldest Subaru Impreza in the world which I love dearly. But it's a thirsty old boy and so I have to be sparing with it. With petrol [[gas) at I think probably the equivalent of $7 per gallon you can imagine how careful we have to be. But we did take the plunge and go out over Easter. We went to a St George and the Dragon olde England St George's display at at local castle in a place called Clitheroe. Fantastic day and well worth the petrol. But property taxes? Mmm. I too don't know so much about them!

**Barbara Nadel** · April-28-11, 04:47 AM

Well, it is the eve of the Royal Wedding and I can report that coverage of it is already pretty much blanket here. Predictably most of the people camping outside Buckingham Palace are not from the UK but then I think that most of us locals are just going to try and have a day outside in the sunshine away from the crowds. Don't get me wrong, I wish William and Kate all the best, but I'd do that if they were just an ordinary young couple.
Something you may not have heard about is the debate over what our Prime Minister David Cameron is going to wear. Apparently he is not happy about wearing a tail coat because it makes him look to posh and so he would like to wear a morning coat like 'us'. Except that will millions of pounds in the bank and being related to the Queen he is not like us in any way. That he seeks to use such a pathetic stunt to try and be 'as one with the common folk' is deeply insulting. But then he is a man without a clue. He isn't like us, couldn't be like us and wouldn't like it if he was. I may be wrong but I don't really see posh David walking to the local newspaper shop for a copy of 'The Racing Post' and a packet of cigarettes.

**Kathleen** · April-28-11, 05:03 AM

One of our UK colleagues sent the link to this T-Mobile spoof ad of the Royal Wedding....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kav0FEhtLug

**Pam** · April-28-11, 06:45 AM

Well, it is the eve of the Royal Wedding and I can report that coverage of it is already pretty much blanket here

It has been getting an insane amount of coverage over here too. I don't remember this much hype on Charles and Diana, but of course that was before the internet.

**jcole** · April-28-11, 08:57 AM

That was when France was still a monarchy; once they became a republic under Napolean, the Jesuits were out.

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

Remembering the French religious incursions into the New World, it is hard to imagine how they could have come so far as to outlaw religious expression in public. The Anishinaabe name for the French people is Wemtigozhii, referring to the cross they carried. Their entire mission was to convert to Catholicism. In this latest wave of secularism, it seems the pendulum has just about reached its outer limits on the other side, similar to the Soviet Union.

**Barbara Nadel** · May-03-11, 05:32 AM

On Sunday the newspapers over here were still full of the Royal Wedding. In fact you could have been forgiven for thinking that the most important thing in the whole world were hats or those weird 'fascinator' things that are about as fascinating as a cardboard box. That said, Prince Andrews daughters Beatrice and Eugenie wore fascinators so utterly bizarre that I was, I admit, fascinated by who on earth told them that they were a good idea. One of them, in profile, looked like a stag. Madness. That said, it was a jolly good show and proves if nothing else that we can still do this sort of thing over here. However on Sunday night the world, as we all know, changed and now Kate Middleton's image has been replaced by that of Osama bin Laden. My life, what a well kept secret that was! One can only marvel at US intelligence in this instance. It was amazing. Reaction was however muted over here in Europe, not because people disapprove, but because we are now all holding our breath for the almost inevitable reprisals. I expect you feel the same way too.

**sumas** · May-03-11, 07:06 AM

If it's any consolation they claim there was a treasure trove of documents regarding planned attacks in the compound that were seized

**Barbara Nadel** · May-04-11, 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by sumas

If it's any consolation they claim there was a treasure trove of documents regarding planned attacks in the compound that were seized

Yes, we heard that too. Also heard this morning that the President may be releasing photos of bin Laden's body. Not good and I fully understand why he didn't do that immediately. But some people, of course, believe that bin Laden is still alive and so proof will have to be given. That said, I feel that this will just run and run anyway. Bin Laden will join the ranks of others supposedly still alive like Marilyn Monroe, Elvis Presley, Hitler and Princess Diana. There's a whole world of conspiracy out there!

**gazhekwe** · May-04-11, 09:42 AM

Many of those who want proof will not accept any proof. There is a pretty good fake death picture of Osama circulating, and there is a post of it with the original body picture, not OBL, showing how it was done. Non-believers will draw their conclusions and continue to disbelieve no matter what proof is offered. The DNA match is there, the facial analysis, the visual ID by the ones on the ground, the Al Qaeda confirmation, Pakistan confirmation, whose army was involved. Do people think EVERYONE is a liar?

**Barbara Nadel** · May-05-11, 03:01 AM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

Many of those who want proof will not accept any proof. There is a pretty good fake death picture of Osama circulating, and there is a post of it with the original body picture, not OBL, showing how it was done. Non-believers will draw their conclusions and continue to disbelieve no matter what proof is offered. The DNA match is there, the facial analysis, the visual ID by the ones on the ground, the Al Qaeda confirmation, Pakistan confirmation, whose army was involved. Do people think EVERYONE is a liar?

I think they do. I think some people are just hard wired to believe conspiracy theories. There are still people over here who believe that Princess Diana is still alive! Where do they think she was last Friday? Dressed as a tree in Westminster Abbey?

**Pam** · May-05-11, 06:14 AM

There are still people over here who believe that Princess Diana is still alive! Where do they think she was last Friday? Dressed as a tree in Westminster Abbey?

I never heard this one. So who was the woman in the car that crashed? Her secret double? Or did she get better and go into hiding?