Lower Wooward Concept Retail Plans

[royce]

Gthomas, you and your 24 friends and others that live downtown have to pitch the argument to the businesses that you mentioned that you all deserve to be served in downtown. If you all write to these companies and say that you will support these businesses in Downtown Detroit, they might listen. As it stands right now, those of you that live downtown go somewhere to get toiletries, clothing, food, and other household items. The job of you and other downtown residents is to convince them to set up shop downtown.

Personally, I would love to see a Target store on the Hudson's site, with apartments built above. I can get 90% of all my basic needs at Target and so for me a Target store downtown would be ideal, since I work and play nearby. Without any serious competition in the area, it could actually do quite well, especially if apartment dwellers lived above the store. I believe this concept is currently being tried in Downtown Minneapolis. If it's doing well, then a pitch might be made to do it here. Well, I guess we all need to start writing.

[fryar]

I agree with others' comments about chain stores and the like, but Gthomas's overall vision of some kind of a grand boulevard running up Woodward is one I basically agree with. Which is not to say that I expect that to happen in the immediate future.

[ghettopalmetto]

ASk any Newyorker or Chicagians "Why they like Downtown shopping" see what answer you get...

And I guarantee you that without exception, the answer will not involve "Express" or "P.F. Changs".

New Yorkers, in particular, are a little notorious for their disdain of national chains.

[iheartthed]

And I guarantee you that without exception, the answer will not involve "Express" or "P.F. Changs".

New Yorkers, in particular, are a little notorious for their disdain of national chains.

Yeah, the only reason those chains survive in NYC is because of tourists. It's no mistake that every single TGI Fridays in Manhattan is located between 30th and 59th Street, with the majority being clustered around Times Square or Penn Station.

[401don]

We could start slowly with a Footlocker, Salad Creations, Borders, maybe a couple of restaurants and an upscale fashion boutique.

[EL Jimbo]

If you look at Downtown Shopping Districts in cities like Chicago and New York, typically, they offer stores, restaurants and experiences you won't find in a suburban mall. You mentioned the Magnificent Mile in Chicago as an example. There might be a few of the stores you mentioned on the Mile, but what draws the flocks of suburban and tourist shoppers [[like my wife) to the Mile are the boutiques and high end shops and department stores that even if you don't buy anything in them, they are fun to walk in and look. Stores like Tiffany & Co., Cartier, Saks 5th Avenue, Louis Vuitton, Coach, etc.

If Detroit could somehow attract stores like that to downtown, then they would be the true anchors of a popular shopping district that might also have some of the stores you mentioned. However, I think it would be better to have that type of shopping located just outside of the downtown area along one of the "spokes"

However, if I could wave my magic wand and bring retail downtown, I would create an "anchor" by bringing a Macy's Department Store to the site of the old Hudson's building and fill as much as i could of Woodward between Campus Martius and GCP and Washington between GCP and Michigan with either high end, boutique, or some other unique retail.

The final thing I would do is make the buildings around GCP the "Food Court" of what is essentially a high end outdoor mall. On the ground floor of the buildings facing GCP, I would try to develop more unique dining options both corporate [[yes, even a Cheesecake Factory) and local places too [[Slows Downtown perhaps?).

The bottom line of all of this is that You can't just try and throw the same things you would find at any mall in the surburbs in downtown Detroit and expect it to thrive. You have to create an experience and a destination that people are willing to fight traffic, pay for parking, and endure the elements [[wind, rain, snow, etc) to enjoy that is unique to what they can get out on 102 mile rd.

[Gsgeorge]

So you don't like malls, but you like outdoor malls with nice architecture? Somehow if the stores are the same I don't see the difference. They still suck as far as chain retailers go.

[ghettopalmetto]

The bottom line of all of this is that You can't just try and throw the same things you would find at any mall in the surburbs in downtown Detroit and expect it to thrive. You have to create an experience and a destination that people are willing to fight traffic, pay for parking, and endure the elements [[wind, rain, snow, etc) to enjoy that is unique to what they can get out on 102 mile rd.

"Experience." "Destination". = Marketing hoo-ha. Yawn.

How about this--build a fucking CITY!

[bartock]

Gthomas, I like your enthusiasm, and I think you should ignore the criticism. It beats the self-gratification disguised as social conciousness bullshit any day. At least your ideas are sans pretention.

Do people who live in Chicago really shop downtown? Not being snarky, but isn't Michigan Ave. basically tourists, and aren't a good number of those shops chain stores [[EDIT: OK I just read Jimbo's post...those high end shops are still chain stores, right? I think what the Mag Mile has is aesthetic, and chain stores with their own uniqueness like the NIKE store, etc.)

I agree with the suggestions of a Target and an Old Navy. Chain stores, yes, but one place affordable but not cheap clothing retail and, as mentioned, a place that can meet 90% of some consumers' needs is, in my opinion, the start of what downtown needs in order to keep the dollars there.

[ghettopalmetto]

Retailers look at "income density" when choosing where to locate. That is to say, a certain number of persons within a particular range of income located within a given physical radius of the store. For any sort of high-end retailer, Detroit just doesn't have the income density. Before you can think about any kind of retail, you need to have people.

What I've witnessed, in several cities, is that the establishment of bars and restaurants usually precedes any type of retail resurgence. The reason for this is that bars, in particular, have higher profit margins. If you can charge $4 for a bottle of beer that costs you $1 to procure, that's a hell of a lot better than the couple percent profit that a clothing retailer might net.

I like gthomas's enthusiasm, but to address the problem, it needs to be tempered with a healthy dose of reality. Otherwise, you're just throwing a bunch of shit at the wall to see what will stick, and Detroit has done that for way too long as it is.

Start with *people*. If you want Chicago's Michigan Avenue, then you had better have a couple hundred thousand well-off folks living within a 2 mile radius.

[iheartthed]

If you look at Downtown Shopping Districts in cities like Chicago and New York, typically, they offer stores, restaurants and experiences you won't find in a suburban mall. You mentioned the Magnificent Mile in Chicago as an example. There might be a few of the stores you mentioned on the Mile, but what draws the flocks of suburban and tourist shoppers [[like my wife) to the Mile are the boutiques and high end shops and department stores that even if you don't buy anything in them, they are fun to walk in and look. Stores like Tiffany & Co., Cartier, Saks 5th Avenue, Louis Vuitton, Coach, etc.

If Detroit could somehow attract stores like that to downtown, then they would be the true anchors of a popular shopping district that might also have some of the stores you mentioned. However, I think it would be better to have that type of shopping located just outside of the downtown area along one of the "spokes"

However, if I could wave my magic wand and bring retail downtown, I would create an "anchor" by bringing a Macy's Department Store to the site of the old Hudson's building and fill as much as i could of Woodward between Campus Martius and GCP and Washington between GCP and Michigan with either high end, boutique, or some other unique retail.

The final thing I would do is make the buildings around GCP the "Food Court" of what is essentially a high end outdoor mall. On the ground floor of the buildings facing GCP, I would try to develop more unique dining options both corporate [[yes, even a Cheesecake Factory) and local places too [[Slows Downtown perhaps?).

The bottom line of all of this is that You can't just try and throw the same things you would find at any mall in the surburbs in downtown Detroit and expect it to thrive. You have to create an experience and a destination that people are willing to fight traffic, pay for parking, and endure the elements [[wind, rain, snow, etc) to enjoy that is unique to what they can get out on 102 mile rd.

I don't think a Detroit shopping district needs an anchor. But it does need a large concentration of stores in a specific geographic area. Instead of tearing down every building they get their hands on maybe the city could turn them over to someone who will renovate and lease out retail space to local designers.

Soho in NYC was built by specialty retail shops. It wasn't until the notoriety and then tourists came that it started to attract the chains. And even today the only department store down there is a mini Bloomingdales that opened about 5 years ago. But 30 years ago it was only artists and dedicated designers working in spaces in old deserted factories that were practically free.

If I were playing God I would start such a project in the empty spaces along Woodward near the Grand Boulevard.

[ghettopalmetto]

Soho in NYC was built by specialty retail shops. It wasn't until the notoriety and then tourists came that it started to attract the chains. And even today the only department store down there is a mini Bloomingdales that opened about 5 years ago. But 30 years ago it was only artists and dedicated designers working in spaces in old deserted factories that were practically free.

Let's bear in mind that SoHo was only able to "occur" due to the availability of cheap real estate. You know--the same kind of real estate that DEGC pays millions to bulldoze.

[Hermod]

Neither do ones that are always talking.

Yes Gthomas, you said all that before. It sounds great. An entrepreneur is someone who has ideas AND is acting on them; a person willing to start a new venture and take full responsibility of the outcome. Simply having great ideas is hardly a step. Most of us have seen Chicago or New York, and understand their appeal.

In short, money talks and bullshit walks.

[bartock]

I
If I were playing God I would start such a project in the empty spaces along Woodward near the Grand Boulevard.

Fine, forget the anchor. If I were playing God I'd start by putting an affordable-but-not-cheap "urban" clothing retailer right here. I pass by it every day and want to scream at the Archdiocese to make use of half of this awesome space, with the hopes that the rest of the space would soon follow.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...0.62,,0,-18.56

Note: it isn't 1234 Washington Boulevard. It is further south and on the west side of the street, corner of Michigan Avenue.

May not seem like a great location at first glance, but it is right across from whatever they are calling the Holiday Inn Express these days, and kittie-corner from the Book Cadillac, down the street from the Wash Blvd. apartments [[forget what they are called). The Freep building is supposedly getting renovated, and the Fort Shelby is not far away [[neither is the bus terminal...perhaps not a good thing from the stories about that place).

EDIT: I would put a store in there if someone gave me $350,000. Pinky-promise I'd pay it back...

[EL Jimbo]

I don't think a Detroit shopping district needs an anchor. But it does need a large concentration of stores in a specific geographic area. Instead of tearing down every building they get their hands on maybe the city could turn them over to someone who will renovate and lease out retail space to local designers.

Soho in NYC was built by specialty retail shops. It wasn't until the notoriety and then tourists came that it started to attract the chains. And even today the only department store down there is a mini Bloomingdales that opened about 5 years ago. But 30 years ago it was only artists and dedicated designers working in spaces in old deserted factories that were practically free.

If I were playing God I would start such a project in the empty spaces along Woodward near the Grand Boulevard.

I'm not saying it necessarily needs an anchor either. My point was that If you want to add a department store to downtown, the perfect place to put it would be right where a department store used to be.

[DetroitPlanner]

Fine, forget the anchor. If I were playing God I'd start by putting an affordable-but-not-cheap "urban" clothing retailer right here. I pass by it every day and want to scream at the Archdiocese to make use of half of this awesome space, with the hopes that the rest of the space would soon follow.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...0.62,,0,-18.56

With the wide sidewalk is could make a great place to put a cafe.

In the past 15 years its been a Michcon office and a sporting goods store. Nothing has been there is quite sometime though.

[adamjab19]

Dense amount of unique stores is what downtown needs. Not a chain store except for maybe an urban target would be cool. The problem is, and people stated above that chain stores have a long sheet of requirements of where they put stores. I would not come downtown to shop at an old navy. I live three miles from an old navy and do not shop there. I would however and do drive downtown to get a cool T from a local shop like pure detroit etc.

Also I know people live downtown and that population has increased but really how many people are we talking about? 3-4 thousand?? Divide up the demographics and it becomes nearly impossible to justify to any established national chain to go ahead and open up a store/restaurant. It makes no sense. Even out of the kindness of their heart to "bring back a city" they would not do it. Downtown development in Detroit needs to be organic. Kind of like what's going on in the one building downtown, totally forgetting the name right now. Get 5-10 store ideas together and set up shop. Small stores with little overhead to get through the slim times. And honestly even in SoHo that's kind of how it is. A handful of chains [[ton more residents there though) with a lot of cool BOUTIQUE stores.

Edit: I see now that iheartheD made a point of SOHO before me so I agree with that post.

[Planner3357]

Fine, forget the anchor. If I were playing God I'd start by putting an affordable-but-not-cheap "urban" clothing retailer right here. I pass by it every day and want to scream at the Archdiocese to make use of half of this awesome space, with the hopes that the rest of the space would soon follow.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...0.62,,0,-18.56

Note: it isn't 1234 Washington Boulevard. It is further south and on the west side of the street, corner of Michigan Avenue.

Isn't that currently St. Al's Community Center? Really is prime location, not to dis on my church but I would rather see business in there. Plus...the second floor looks sweet with big windows, etc.

[DetroitPlanner]

Isn't that currently St. Al's Community Center? Really is prime location, not to dis on my church but I would rather see business in there. Plus...the second floor looks sweet with big windows, etc.

No thats the Gabriel Richard Building. St. Al's used to be Niki's Pizza and before that Quickee Donuts.

[gthomas]

I believe it will come, especially when Quicken Loans and its other entities build its headquarters in 2013. He also promise to include entertainment, shopping, and residential. So we will see how that works out, hopefully soon. I do agree with more Detroit theme/style retail..but we already have that downtown. We need other options, thats all Im saying. One or two anchors will not hurt to setup shop downtown.

Illitch also mention building some sort of entertainment/retail center with his new Redwings Arena? ...Potential.

[stromberg2]

I'm not saying it necessarily needs an anchor either. My point was that If you want to add a department store to downtown, the perfect place to put it would be right where a department store used to be.

Like the Himmelochs building.

Stromberg2

[HazenPingree]

Mockery aside, there is room in downtown Detroit for destination chain retail. An Apple Store or Ikea would most definitely attract suburban clientele. People will drive where ever is closest to look at the latest iPad or Swedish Modern Lamp.

Of course, one might expect stores to have diminished sales over alternative suburban sites, so it would be up to subsidy to entice such stores to land here.

The cost and benefit is up for debate, but you cannot deny that such stores would be profitable and draw considerable traffic.

[DetroitDad]

Fine, forget the anchor. If I were playing God I'd start by putting an affordable-but-not-cheap "urban" clothing retailer right here. I pass by it every day and want to scream at the Archdiocese to make use of half of this awesome space, with the hopes that the rest of the space would soon follow.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...0.62,,0,-18.56

Note: it isn't 1234 Washington Boulevard. It is further south and on the west side of the street, corner of Michigan Avenue.

May not seem like a great location at first glance, but it is right across from whatever they are calling the Holiday Inn Express these days, and kittie-corner from the Book Cadillac, down the street from the Wash Blvd. apartments [[forget what they are called). The Freep building is supposedly getting renovated, and the Fort Shelby is not far away [[neither is the bus terminal...perhaps not a good thing from the stories about that place).

EDIT: I would put a store in there if someone gave me $350,000. Pinky-promise I'd pay it back...

• You mean like the woman's jean and urban apparel boutique right across the street?
  
  
  
• It might be worth mentioning that chain stores have such requirements because that is the minimum requirements for running a profitable operation.
  
• As to anchors, we already have at least five. Comerica Park/Ford Field, MGM Grand/Motor City Casino, Cobo Hall/Joe Louis Arena, the Renaissance Center, and Campus Martius Park/Hart Plaza all anchor Downtown Detroit in some way. Despite those anchors, there is a minimum of spin-off retail. The problem isn't getting people into Downtown Detroit. The problem is keeping them here long enough to spend additional time and money.

[youngdetroiter]

gthomas, my fellow Detroiter,

Thank you for continuing to share your ideas. I regularly read the forum, and every once in a while, a thread jolts me out of my writing hiatus and posting dormancy.

I thought that Detroit had hit rock bottom in the early 2000s. I never imagined that our fair city would have spiraled to its current state. It is this present state of the city, which prompts cynicism and pessimism in this forum and from citizens, and understandably so. Nevertheless, it is these ideas, such as yours, which will contribute towards Detroit's transformation. Everything that IS was first an idea and vision.

I, too, have amassed numerous ideas and solutions for the city's revitalization, but I have been hampered by a lack of resources. I was on the Mayor's Youth Council [[under the Kilpatrick administration), and for years, I shared my ideas with politicians, journalists, and others. Now that I have completed my collegiate studies, I can effectively act on these ideas with a lack of financial resources being the main hindrance.

You mentioned that you are working with other entrepreneurs and have space available Downtown. I would like to learn more about what you're doing, right now, and how others might participate to help build the momentum.

Feel free to message [[or tweet) me @youngdetroiter

"Believe 'n the D!"
- [the slogan that I presented to the administration back in 2003. It looks oddly similar to the new "Believe in Detroit" campaign slogan. But as long as Detroit bounces back, I'll be happy...LOL.]

[gthomas]

ok cool! thank you...tweet me @ geezy_83 or gtrip313@yahoo.com . Will give you more info.