Detroit myths and urban legends

[DetroitTeacher]

I used to work there as well and also agree that his is very unlikely. Nonetheless, places like Hawthorne Glade and Oxbow Island - the back end where nobody ever goes - is basically empty fields and forest.

They dug up the back 40 to build the barn and pasture. I've been out in the back, where no one goes. There is a greenhouse [[many, in fact) and they've dug up out there plenty. We used to spread horse manure out there when we cleaned the barn [[still do, to my knowledge). Oxbow has too many trees and such and floods too often to bury anything there. Seems to me that the press would have gotten hold of that story [[I doubt it would easy to sneak a Nazi tank into the US without someone noticing).

[Meddle]

[[I doubt it would easy to sneak a Nazi tank into the US without someone noticing).

I don't. Not in the 40s or 50s. With all the shipping traffic in and out of Ford, they could have brought one in by freighter and right up the Rouge River, offloaded onto an enclosed rail car or truck.

The only way to know for sure would be a sub-surface sonar or ultrasound scan of the property and that won't happen since it's all private property.

[Meddle]

A full size Panzer IV tank measured 20' x 10' or so. I'm sure they moved bigger items than that in and out of Rouge. At 25 tons, the weight would be more of a problem though. Panzer IIs were smaller and lighter and would have been easier to move.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_IV

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_II

The part that doesn't make any sense though is that it would be buried and not on display somewhere.

[Meddle]

Doing a little reading on this and found an interesting article:

"General Motors was far more important to the Nazi war machine than Switzerland," said Bradford Snell, who has spent two decades researching a history of the world's largest automaker. "Switzerland was just a repository of looted funds. GM was an integral part of the German war effort. The Nazis could have invaded Poland and Russia without Switzerland. They could not have done so without GM."

In July 1938, four months after the German annexation of Austria, he [[Ford) accepted the highest medal that Nazi Germany could bestow on a foreigner, the Grand Cross of the German Eagle. The following month, a senior executive for General Motors, James Mooney, received a similar medal for his "distinguished service to the Reich."

The importance of the American automakers went beyond making trucks for the German army. The Schneider report, now available to researchers at the National Archives, states that American Ford agreed to a complicated barter deal that gave the Reich increased access to large quantities of strategic raw materials, notably rubber. Author Snell says that Nazi armaments chief Albert Speer told him in 1977 that Hitler "would never have considered invading Poland" without synthetic fuel technology provided by General Motors.

Much more here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...nazicars30.htm

[Pickford-Bentler]

During the 1920s, the Dearborn Independent ran series of articles under the title - The International Jew: The World's Foremost Problem - that were credited to Henry Ford. The Nazis were avid readers and I believe that a copy with Ford's picture is on the coffee table in the shot of Ford getting an award from Goering.

[mallory]

When I was working at the Penobscot [[91-94) there was a rumor that a lady opened the window near the elevator and took a dive. That's why the windows have chains which allow you to only open the window an inch or two. Never could authenticate the story.

[bailey]

...and the latest one.

If Detroit's population falls under 800,000 its casinos will have to shut down.

Or on the flip side of that one... . Detroit's population didn't fall to under 800,000-- a couple of hundred thousand people just didn't participate because: [[insert conspiracy theory of one's choice here).

ooo that's a good one. I have heard that Hitler had a photo of Henry Ford in his office. Myth, Legend or fact?

Fact-- Just in the 20s.. before Hitler was arrested and jailed for the Bavarian rebellion.

On December 20, 1922 the New York Times reported that automobile manufacturer Henry Ford was financing Adolph Hitler's nationalist and anti-Semitic movements in Munich. It was reported that Hitler's foreign backers had furnished a "spacious headquarters" with a "host of highly paid lieutenants and officials." Henry Ford's portrait was prominently displayed on the walls of Hitler's personal office:

The wall behind his desk in Hitler's private office is decorated with a large picture of Henry Ford. In the antechamber there is a large table covered with books, nearly all of which are a translation of a book written and published by Henry Ford.

.
Also there is this...

These Ford funds were used by Hitler to foment the Bavarian rebellion. The rebellion failed, and Hitler was captured and subsequently brought to trial. In February 1923 at the trial, vice president Auer of the Bavarian Diet testified:

The Bavarian Diet has long had the information that the Hitler movement was partly financed by an American anti-Semitic chief, who is Henry Ford. Mr. Ford's interest in the Bavarian anti-Semitic movement began a year ago when one of Mr. Ford's agents, seeking to sell tractors, came in contact with Diedrich Eichart, the notorious Pan-German. Shortly after, Herr Eichart asked Mr. Ford's agent for financial aid. The agent returned to America and immediately Mr. Ford's money began coming to Munich.
Herr Hitler openly boasts of Mr. Ford's support and praises Mr. Ford as a great individualist and a great anti-Semite. A photograph of Mr. Ford hangs in Herr Hitler's quarters, which is the center of monarchist movement.

Jonathan Leonard, The Tragedy of Henry Ford, [[New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1932), p. 208. Also see U.S. State Department Decimal File, National Archives Microcopy M 336, Roll 80, Document 862.00S/6, "Money sources of Hitler," a report from the U.S. Embassy in Berlin.

[Detroitnerd]

Some more...

"The true number of deaths in the 1967 riots was deliberately suppressed in spite of the 'fact' that the morgue was actually overflowing with bodies." Widely held.

Same with 1943

[Detroitnerd]

I worked at GFV for many years. Considering that they just tore up and moved many buildings to revamp it and found nothing, tells me that this is a legend. The village was also finished in 1929, long before Nazi tanks were made. I think Ford would have displayed it proudly if he had one.

There did used to be a tunnel between the chapel and the watermill.

[blackmath]

http://www.walkervilletimes.com/curse-peche-island.html

One of my personal favorites: The Curse of Peche Island.

[mr_onion]

In a surprise move, the Abc Network has decided to renewed the troubled Detroit based show and gave it a 22 episode order!

[DetroitTeacher]

There did used to be a tunnel between the chapel and the watermill.

Which watermill? They had many mills but I don't recall a watermill. Are you speaking of Loranger Grist Mill? If so, that is FALSE since the mill was moved and I never saw any remnants of a tunnel leading to the mill. If it's another mill, I'd be interested to know which one. There is a tiny house that sits behind Taste of History that used to be used as a Honeymoon cottage for a lucky couple married in the chapel. Hasn't been used as such in MANY years, though. Could it be that house?

[Detroitnerd]

Which watermill? They had many mills but I don't recall a watermill. Are you speaking of Loranger Grist Mill? If so, that is FALSE since the mill was moved and I never saw any remnants of a tunnel leading to the mill. If it's another mill, I'd be interested to know which one. There is a tiny house that sits behind Taste of History that used to be used as a Honeymoon cottage for a lucky couple married in the chapel. Hasn't been used as such in MANY years, though. Could it be that house?

When I was about 11 or 12, which would be around 1981 or 1982, we took pottery classes inside a mill building with a waterwheel. You took a few steps up into the building, as I remember. But if you went down the stairs, there was a long, narrow underground passage that led to the Martha Mary Chapel. I remember our pottery teacher showing it to us; it was illuminated with light bulbs and she said it extended to behind the pulpit in the chapel. I thought it was amazing.

[Magnatomicflux]

A full size Panzer IV tank measured 20' x 10' or so. I'm sure they moved bigger items than that in and out of Rouge. At 25 tons, the weight would be more of a problem though. Panzer IIs were smaller and lighter and would have been easier to move.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_IV

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_II

The part that doesn't make any sense though is that it would be buried and not on display somewhere.

I agree, it would definitly be on display. I can't really see what the big deal would be anyways to preserve any war machine. It's a peice of history, and the machine itself wasn't a fascist pig. I guess it's different because it's Ford, I get that, but there are plenty of tank collectors out there and they don't care what flag it flew, only it's history. If I had the oppertunity to restore URussian planes, or an He-111 bomber, or a Messerschmitt Me-109 fighter plane, I would do it in a heart beat. Just like I helped restore Lancaster FM 212 here in Windsor.

There's German war machines all over the US and Canada.

In the 1950's you didn't need to sneak this stuff into the country. If Ford had one he would've made no attempts at hiding it. Like U-505 seen here:

[Detroitej72]

There was a little girl who was run over and killed by a car on a street somewhere near Mackenzie High. I can't remember which street. If you drive over that spot she will knock on the bottom of your car.

I had always heard it was on Strasbourg, on the east side, between 7 and 8 Mile Road.

[Rochelle St.]

I know a little girl WAS run over and killed on Hayes in front of Guardian Angels school in the late 60's.
Anyone else remember?

[DetroitTeacher]

When I was about 11 or 12, which would be around 1981 or 1982, we took pottery classes inside a mill building with a waterwheel. You took a few steps up into the building, as I remember. But if you went down the stairs, there was a long, narrow underground passage that led to the Martha Mary Chapel. I remember our pottery teacher showing it to us; it was illuminated with light bulbs and she said it extended to behind the pulpit in the chapel. I thought it was amazing.

There is no basement nor a passage going from the pottery building to anywhere nor is there a staircase going down to anywhere. Might have been a different building that you took the pottery class in. The only building with a waterwheel was the Loranger Grist Mill and then another mill [[I think the old apple mill has one but it isn't near any water). The house behind Taste of History, near the chapel, has a waterwheel, I think. That could be the building. I've been in the chapel for a wedding [[in the wedding party) and was up close and personal with the area behind the pulpit and none of the doors open to a tunnel. We were shown the entire chapel prior to the wedding [[it helped that both myself and the bride worked there). IF there is a tunnel, it's a neat piece of info that I didn't know. I know all of the neat ghost stories behind the museum and village, though. We wanted to write a book about them but the powers that be nixed our idea [[it was going to be a culmination of employee and past employee accounts of encounters with spirits). I know Dagget farm is haunted, having witnessed some pretty weird happenings there after hours, in the fall. It only happened in the fall. Firestone farm is also pretty haunted by a ghost named Sally. She is a little girl who likes to pull practical jokes that aren't so funny when the recipient of her humor is yourself, trust me.

[Lowell]

"Hamtramck was built on a swamp; so many houses were built upon pole foundations. The area came to be known as 'Poletown'."

[dookie joe]

First the urban legend:

About 10-15 years ago, there was a rumor circulating that gangs were driving around with their headlights out, and, as part of their initiation rites, they'd kill the first person who flashed their lights at them.


Now the myth:

Coleman Young curbed police brutality by getting rid of STRESS. No, he didn't. He merely transferred the STRESS cops to the Big Four, where they continued doing what they'd been doing: i.e., the good cops kept being good, and the bad ones still went around kicking people's asses.

[missn]

Great find Izzy! There goes my morning ...

[G-DDT]

First the urban legend:

About 10-15 years ago, there was a rumor circulating that gangs were driving around with their headlights out, and, as part of their initiation rites, they'd kill the first person who flashed their lights at them.

Yeah. according to that one. you could identify them by their "crown air fresheners" in the back window. They actually circulated memos about it to everyone at my phone sales job out in Southfield back in '93.

[G-DDT]

My own contribution is more of a hoax. One of the guys who worked at the Record Collector in Livonia [[and one of the few guys from that Time Stereo scene to be kind and civil to me, along with Frank from Laughing Gas and Troy and Matt from the Witches) was in a band called Mog Stunt Team [[got a lot of promotion in Orbit). They claimed to have the secrets to "anti-gravity". They also had a movement called N.A.T.A.S. [[get it?-if not, get a mirror.), that claimed John Tesh [[along with a dozen or more celebrities) were aliens in disguise taking over the world, and that Tesh's music had hideous mind control waves hidden in it's banal, insipid production.

Of course, they were just having a lark, but who's to say who took it seriously or who didn't? Tesh and Rosie O'Donnell had a "look what some folks actually believe about your music" chat on T.V. [[with clips of Kenny leading a N.A.T.A.S. protest outside the Fox theater where Tesh was performing that night. The clips showed Kenny in full bravado pointing at the Fox tower and screaming about that's where the thought control waves are coming from). Maybe they didn't actually believe that Kenny believed in this, but hey! it stirred up controversy, boosted sales, and gave them something to talk about [[like, how many times does this happen? Do Nikki Manaj and Mariah Carey really feud with each other?). Feel free to add any found clips....

[G-DDT]

Speaking of staged collusions for the sake of publicity stunts and controversy, the more I read Bob Zmuda's book about Andy Kaufman, the more I wonder what was on the level and what wasn't. There was a stunt where Andy had a press conference in San Francisco, and a reporter claiming to be from the Detroit Free Press started to lay into a dumbstruck Andy with ugly, accusatory questions-that was until he was forcibly ejected. Andy later picked up the "reporter", who was his long time confederate, Zmuda. Makes me wonder: "Why Detroit?"

Also, Zmuda, starts early on with a long recounting of his harrowing three weeks earning $2,000 a week as assistant to an "absolutely insane" famous screen writer/script doctor-he referred to as "Mr. X"-who had bizarre habits with buying new tape recorders and taking out large briefcases of money and going around causing dangerous havoc with folks and attempting to pay them off [[ala' Magic Christian-with Zmuda recording the whole thing and being the money case bearer). He did horrible things like purchase massive amounts of artwork and want to seal the deal with the attractive art girl by having her perform oral sex on him [[she wisely didn't). Also, he almost got arrested for taking a nasty dump inside an airport in plain view [[guess he had some weird enveloped "failsafe" that Zmuda was supposed to produce in such situations-money being also involved-that got the cops to let him go).

I later find out [[despite that the writer was described as having a thick New York or New England accent) the writer was supposed to be Norman Wexler from Detroit [[graduated Central High). If true, it is more proof we do produce some amped-up loonies here in Michigan-Boogie Down!

Here is Zmuda talking about it [[Warning: naughty language!):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ3ksr5hHMQ The Glazed Donut bit is a tad inconsistent with the recount in the book, yet, I respect Flo for being a hold-out-says a lot for human spirit and free-will overcoming pressured coercion.

Oddly, someone created a non-violent/atmospheric Silent Hill game where the main character, Norman Wexler, roams a hospital where he was driven insane.

[G-DDT]

Yeah. according to that one. you could identify them by their "crown air fresheners" in the back window. They actually circulated memos about it to everyone at my phone sales job out in Southfield back in '93.

Here's a similar one reported and debunked by Snopes. http://www.snopes.com/crime/gangs/genesee.aspSeemed someone was really determined [[or put up to) to elevate [[racially charged) fear amongst the masses.

[G-DDT]

ooo that's a good one. I have heard that Hitler had a photo of Henry Ford in his office. Myth, Legend or fact?

How about the undetermined letter from Clyde Barrow?http://www.snopes.com/business/consumer/barrow.asp