"Michigan is Screwed" - The Rachel Maddow Show

**R8RBOB** · March-10-11, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by skyl4rk

I have to agree that this law is being written for the COD. Benton Harbor was a test case and the Council acted like a bunch of idiots, so now they know how to change the law to prevent shenanigans in Detroit.

The thing that concerns me the most about the current situation is that they are only talking about the locals as having problems, or better said being the problem. The reality is that it is the state with the biggest budget problem. Where are the cuts at the state level? Where is discussion happening on how to reduce the state budget? Instead they are acting as if the problem was created by the locals.

Take away the traditional funding sources for cities and schools, cause the weak jurisdictions to go into deficit mode, and use the EFM to clean up. The funding that you take away from the locals goes to keep the state bloatocracy fat. Use the headlines caused by local budget problems to shift the public eye away from the state problems. Is this the Republican action plan?

After reading the 18 requirements that could trigger the need for a EFM, I knew this was for Detroit. Let's say that Kilpatrick is still mayor. Barbara Rose-Collins, Monica Conyers and Martha Reeves are still on the council and Detroit still has its debt. An EFM can come in, face an arrogant mayor and a hostile council and "bam" out goes the mayor and council because the EFM has been given the authority to remove elected officials. That's just too much power.

thatguy123 · March-10-11, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

One of the reasons why Obama will not use "Executive Order" is that he is scared to death that Republicans would label him a dictator. A prime example of this is DADT. Obama could have ended that through executive order but the backlash would have been fierce. So back to your question. If Obama would done such a thing, Glenn Beck would have plastered his studio with pictures of Obama wearing Hitler's stache'

Seriously bro? You're joking, right? He sure didn't have any issue at all signing an Executive order on Monday that is going to let him keep people locked up indefinitely without trial. So much for him closing Gitmo within 1 year of taking office

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...030704871.html

**R8RBOB** · March-10-11, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by thatguy123

Seriously bro? You're joking, right? He sure didn't have any issue at all signing an Executive order on Monday that is going to let him keep people locked up indefinitely without trial. So much for him closing Gitmo within 1 year of taking office

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...030704871.html

Let me clarify. Signing an executive order regarding Americans. The folks at Gitmo are "terrorists."

**Jimaz** · March-10-11, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by kraig

He's not making cuts, he's shifting resources so that the retirees and the low income residents finance the breaks that are given to the large corporations.

It's a reverse Robin Hood, Robin Hood's evil twin brother.

Rob from the poor, pay to the rich.

**EL Jimbo** · March-10-11, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by skyl4rk

I have to agree that this law is being written for the COD. Benton Harbor was a test case and the Council acted like a bunch of idiots, so now they know how to change the law to prevent shenanigans in Detroit.

The thing that concerns me the most about the current situation is that they are only talking about the locals as having problems, or better said being the problem. The reality is that it is the state with the biggest budget problem. Where are the cuts at the state level? Where is discussion happening on how to reduce the state budget? Instead they are acting as if the problem was created by the locals.

Take away the traditional funding sources for cities and schools, cause the weak jurisdictions to go into deficit mode, and use the EFM to clean up. The funding that you take away from the locals goes to keep the state bloatocracy fat. Use the headlines caused by local budget problems to shift the public eye away from the state problems. Is this the Republican action plan?

There you are with that stupid bloatocracy line again. State government is smaller than it has been in nearly 40 years! How is that bloat?

**skyl4rk** · March-10-11, 08:40 PM

The state budget has a deficit of $160 billion, thats what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about the employees specifically, but the fact that expenditure is way over revenue.

**Brittz** · March-10-11, 09:09 PM

She is staying on MI tonight. Thank you Ms. Maddow.

**Big Dog** · March-10-11, 09:11 PM

Now you know why Snynerd kept very quiet during the campaign. He would have lost by a landslide, if voters were told the truth.

**Brittz** · March-10-11, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by Big Dog

Now you know why Snynerd kept very quiet during the campaign. He would have lost by a landslide, if voters were told the truth.

YEP that was the plan. He followed mayor bing's plan.

**Goose** · March-10-11, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by Big Dog

Now you know why Snynerd kept very quiet during the campaign. He would have lost by a landslide, if voters were told the truth.

so true...

he sold everyone on hope and change, and nothing he's promised has come to fruition.....

hope and change...
hope and change....

**Thames** · March-10-11, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by EL Jimbo

There you are with that stupid bloatocracy line again. State government is smaller than it has been in nearly 40 years! How is that bloat?

There's plenty of bloat. We keep hearing how we "all" have to share in the pain, but I still haven't heard how the fat cats in Lansing are feeling the pain.

Have they taken a paycut? Are they going to start contributing to their health care premiums? [[I think they should pay 1/2) Have they lost any vacation or other PTO days?

Aren't they still each collecting $1000 a month that they don't have to account for or pay taxes on? 12 grand a year. Free money. [[x 138)

**John** · March-10-11, 10:40 PM

AARP Michigan is hosting a rally in reaction to a State Budget proposal presented by the Governor that calls for over $1 billion in tax increases on retirees, seniors and the working poor, while cutting quality-of-life programs and services by $1.2 billion and giving businesses a $1.8 billion tax cut. AARP believes this budget is an all out attack on older Michiganders. We believe what our members are getting in this plan is a much higher tax bill and reduced services. This plan would raise taxes on 1.1 million seniors in exchange for a business tax cut, while also reducing spending for public schools and universities, police and fire fighters, local road repairs and other vital programs and services. This is unfair and unacceptable!
Join us!
It’s Not Fair! Rally

Location: Michigan State Capitol Building, east steps
Corner of Michigan Avenue and Capitol Avenue
Lansing
Date: Tuesday, March 15, 2011
Time: 11:00 am to 1:00 pm
http://msdeniseh553.blogspot.com/2011/03/bullies-organize.html

**R8RBOB** · March-10-11, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by John

AARP Michigan is hosting a rally in reaction to a State Budget proposal presented by the Governor that calls for over $1 billion in tax increases on retirees, seniors and the working poor, while cutting quality-of-life programs and services by $1.2 billion and giving businesses a $1.8 billion tax cut

Okay, I know that all 50 states are in competition with each other for businesses and each one wants to give away the best deal but it is time for the states to get the memo. Trickle-down economics don't work. Ronald Reagan is going to be the death of America because the clueless keep trying to implement Reagan's voodoo economics [[Reaganomics) and it never worked. Republicans like Snyder and Walker believe that if you give corporations a tax cut then they are going to create new jobs in the state. Oops, I should say you hope they create new jobs in the state. Unless you have a gun to their head, they don't have create any jobs. After all, that would be big government and it is about small government. Not telling the people how to live their lives or not telling businesses how to operate.

As for Snyder giving tax cuts equaling 1.8 billion and at the same time sticking out a beggar cup to the workers demanding a billion is insane but this is the norm in 2011. We are broke.

**Goose** · March-10-11, 11:10 PM

it's ironic that there is another thread on this board bitching and moaning about how tax cuts and rebates to the wealthy film industry are being done away with.....

**English** · March-10-11, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by Goose

so true...

he sold everyone on hope and change, and nothing he's promised has come to fruition.....

hope and change...
hope and change....

Um, they're all in bed together, you know. We haven't had a real President in this country since 1963.

**Wesley Mouch** · March-11-11, 12:17 AM

And do you know what happens if you manage your city's finances responsibly and have enough money to pay your bills........... NOTHING.

That's all a city has to do to avoid the chamber of horrors.

Oh how horrible it is that after all these cities spent beyond their means, they have to adjust or be adjusted. How horrible. Let's protest. That'll fix it.

lilpup · March-11-11, 01:43 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

And do you know what happens if you manage your city's finances responsibly and have enough money to pay your bills........... NOTHING.

That's all a city has to do to avoid the chamber of horrors.

Oh how horrible it is that after all these cities spent beyond their means, they have to adjust or be adjusted. How horrible. Let's protest. That'll fix it.

Nothing in theory that is. In reality this is the kind of law that is too powerful and begs for some despot to abuse it.

**Det_ard** · March-11-11, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Goose

it's ironic that there is another thread on this board bitching and moaning about how tax cuts and rebates to the wealthy film industry are being done away with.....

I guess we're not supposed to notice the hypocrisy.

**Detroitnerd** · March-11-11, 10:49 AM

Oh, yes. If you can't pay your bills, it's your problem.

Seems to me, we had a system like this before. It was where the corporation owned everything. The house you lived in. The store you shopped at. The mine you worked in. And it paid you just enough to keep you in debt to the company store. And then, if you complained about how you were in hock, they just laughed and said, "Live within your means!" knowing full well that was impossible. Then they'd chuckle all the way to the bank.

All that's happening is that the super-rich are re-creating that environment in the United States today. We were born free, and now we are all serfs. And we have nobody to blame but ourselves?

**maxx** · March-11-11, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

After reading the 18 requirements that could trigger the need for a EFM, I knew this was for Detroit. Let's say that Kilpatrick is still mayor. Barbara Rose-Collins, Monica Conyers and Martha Reeves are still on the council and Detroit still has its debt. An EFM can come in, face an arrogant mayor and a hostile council and "bam" out goes the mayor and council because the EFM has been given the authority to remove elected officials. That's just too much power.

Evidently Detroit is not too big to fail.

**mjs** · March-11-11, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Goose

so true...

he sold everyone on hope and change, and nothing he's promised has come to fruition.....

hope and change...
hope and change....

How did the Obama get into this? This is about Snyder and Michigan.

Augustiner · March-11-11, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

And do you know what happens if you manage your city's finances responsibly and have enough money to pay your bills........... NOTHING.

That's all a city has to do to avoid the chamber of horrors.

Oh how horrible it is that after all these cities spent beyond their means, they have to adjust or be adjusted. How horrible. Let's protest. That'll fix it.

I don't think "spending beyond their means" is an entirely accurate description of what's happening to many Michigan cities. Property tax revenue is declining because home values are dropping, state revenue sharing is declining because the state has its own budget problems, and cities don't have that many legal ways to offset those losses through increased revenue. They could offset them through draconian budget cuts, of course, and most of them have tried to some extent, but that tends to be a losing game in the long run. If you significantly cut services, fewer people and businesses want to locate in the city, the tax base erodes further, and the revenue problems compound. Plus a lot of federal money is tied to certain kinds of local expenditures, so cut some programs/services past a certain point and you lose more money through ineligibility for federal funds than you save by cutting the budget. The declines in revenue are an ongoing thing, so it's not like they could cut to a certain point and have a balanced budget for the foreseeable future.

**mjs** · March-11-11, 02:02 PM

A CEO, a tea partier, and a union guy sit down at a table and are offered a dozen cookies. The CEO grabs 11 of them and turns to the tea partier and says, help me keep this guy from taking your cookie.

Take a look at the data. The problem isn't the unions. The problem is that there's more and more of us fighting for less and less of the pie crust. They have us saying things like the government/executive coalition jacked me out of my retirement so its not fair my taxes and vehicle costs should go to retirement for them [[union guys). We should be asking that the rest of us get raised up.

Help balance the budgets by repealing things like the Obama tax cuts and returning to a 90% tax bracket starting at say $1 million. Most athlete and hollywood types want the millions just to say they make the most and many Gates types just want it to decide where it goes. Guys like Gates will still get their charitable tax deductions and status folks will stay have their status. For much of the remainder, perhaps we over encourage some of the Enron and Goldman types.

Inflation adjusted income growth from 1979 to 2005.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Income_gains.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Un..._1947-2007.svg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_..._United_States

**mjs** · March-11-11, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

And do you know what happens if you manage your city's finances responsibly and have enough money to pay your bills........... NOTHING.

That's all a city has to do to avoid the chamber of horrors.

Oh how horrible it is that after all these cities spent beyond their means, they have to adjust or be adjusted. How horrible. Let's protest. That'll fix it.

But, thats not how the Republican business model works. If you take rational risks and manage your business responsibly, they help big business buy you out because your short term profits aren't high enough for them. Then when big business takes their inevitable crushing long term losses, they cover it from the middle and lower class tributes to the royalty. Can't the biliionaire bankers trickle down a little of their explosive wealth growth and cover the losses this time around? The rest of us got the bill last week.