NAACP Wants To Honor Kid Rock, Faces Boycott

[English]

Nope, they just felt the federal governemnt under Lincoln's administration was overstepping its bounds [[with taxes and regulations). The slaves just happened to be one of the commodities they wanted the federal government to keep its hands off of. There wasn't an issue however from either side with slavery itself, other than to manipulate them to gain political control.

It seems that in the end, the Southern revisionist historians actually *won* the Civil War. *sigh* Not only every mainstream scholar of the Civil War, but every 19th century Americanist, would disagree with this point of view. And yet, it persists.

Pam is absolutely right. Not only WAS secession and the Confederacy all about slavery, all of the other reasons given to explain away fighting to preserve a slave society are underpinned by slavery. Economics? The Southern economic system was as dependent upon the the commodification of humans as ours is on oil today. Politics and philosophy [[states' rights)? The only way one could argue that "states' rights" were not about slavery are people who don't really know much about American history between 1830 and 1860. Every single major event between those dates led up to 1860-1861. Do you mean to tell me that Southerners, whether slaveholders or not, merely shrugged when a little lady named Harriet Beecher Stowe wrote her novel? That "Bleeding Kansas" bled because of some high, lofty ideal? That there was a Missouri Compromise because of...

We have the words of contemporaries themselves to put this notion to rest. On March 21, 1861, Confederate Vice-President Alexander Stephens made the following statement in his Cornerstone Speech:

...The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions-African slavery as it exists among us-the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson, in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were, that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with; but the general opinion of the men of that day was, that, somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away. This idea, though not incorporated in the Constitution, was the prevailing idea at the time. The Constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly used against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the idea of a Government built upon it-when the "storm came and the wind blew, it fell."

Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition. [Applause.] This, our new Government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.

Charleston Mercury, 1865, "We Want No Confederacy Without Slavery"

It was on account of encroachments upon the institution of slavery by the sectional majority of the old Union, that South Carolina seceded from that Union. It is not at this late day, after the loss of thirty thousand of her best and bravest men in battle, that she will suffer it to be bartered away; or ground between the upper and nether mill stones, by the madness of Congress, or the counsels of shallow men elsewhere

From the Confederate States Constitution, Article IV, Section 2:

No slave or other person held to service or labor in any State or Territory of the Confederate States, under the laws thereof, escaping or lawfully carried into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor; but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such slave belongs, or to whom such service or labor may be due.

From the Confederate States Constitution, Article IV, Section 3:

In all such territory the institution of negro slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected by Congress and by the Territorial government; and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories shall have the right to take to such Territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the States or Territories of the Confederate States.

Sure, the Civil War was about "states' rights" and "economics." It was also about the kind of nation that we would be. I thank every man, woman, and child who served in or supported the Grand Army of the Republic. I do not take for granted the blood that was shed to liberate my ancestors, for most historians and scholars believe that American manumission would not have occurred for at least another generation. Instead, it would have ended in the 1880s or 1890s, as it did elsewhere in the Western Hemisphere.

As for the men in gray and the women and children who loved them, it is too bad that part of their way of life involved treating my ancestors as semi-sentient horses and cattle. [[Actually, some of them treated their livestock better.) They have had generations of sympathy thanks to Margaret Mitchell and the romantic portrayals of plantation life, the priorities of the South now dominate our national discourse and geopolitics, and the abolitionist movement has been recast as a bunch of crazies with a lot of blood on their hands. It has been 150 years and we are still dealing with the effects of a series of decisions in the colonies during the 17th and 18th centuries to end terms of indenture for Africans. It has only been 50 years since a good faith effort was made to make those of African descent full citizens. That flag can never represent freedom and "rights" to me.

As for neo-Confederates who like to wave their flags today, they don't bother me much. I'm far more concerned about the forces here and now, in 2011, who are seeking to beggar us ALL, no matter what our racial or ethnic background. Let a defanged, almost toothless NAACP give anyone they want their awards. The rest of us need to be sober and vigilant, and most of all, united.

[sherryrazor]

It seems that in the end, the Southern revisionist historians actually *won* the Civil War. *sigh* Not only every mainstream scholar of the Civil War, but every 19th century Americanist, would disagree with this point of view. And yet, it persists.

Pam is absolutely right. Not only WAS secession and the Confederacy all about slavery, all of the other reasons given to explain away fighting to preserve a slave society are underpinned by slavery. Economics? The Southern economic system was as dependent upon the the commodification of humans as ours is on oil today. Politics and philosophy [[states' rights)? The only way one could argue that "states' rights" were not about slavery are people who don't really know much about American history between 1830 and 1860. Every single major event between those dates led up to 1860-1861. Do you mean to tell me that Southerners, whether slaveholders or not, merely shrugged when a little lady named Harriet Beecher Stowe wrote her novel? That "Bleeding Kansas" bled because of some high, lofty ideal? That there was a Missouri Compromise because of...

We have the words of contemporaries themselves to put this notion to rest. On March 21, 1861, Confederate Vice-President Alexander Stephens made the following statement in his Cornerstone Speech:

Charleston Mercury, 1865, "We Want No Confederacy Without Slavery"

From the Confederate States Constitution, Article IV, Section 2:

From the Confederate States Constitution, Article IV, Section 3:



Sure, the Civil War was about "states' rights" and "economics." It was also about the kind of nation that we would be. I thank every man, woman, and child who served in or supported the Grand Army of the Republic. I do not take for granted the blood that was shed to liberate my ancestors, for most historians and scholars believe that American manumission would not have occurred for at least another generation. Instead, it would have ended in the 1880s or 1890s, as it did elsewhere in the Western Hemisphere.

As for the men in gray and the women and children who loved them, it is too bad that part of their way of life involved treating my ancestors as semi-sentient horses and cattle. [[Actually, some of them treated their livestock better.) They have had generations of sympathy thanks to Margaret Mitchell and the romantic portrayals of plantation life, the priorities of the South now dominate our national discourse and geopolitics, and the abolitionist movement has been recast as a bunch of crazies with a lot of blood on their hands. It has been 150 years and we are still dealing with the effects of a series of decisions in the colonies during the 17th and 18th centuries to end terms of indenture for Africans. It has only been 50 years since a good faith effort was made to make those of African descent full citizens. That flag can never represent freedom and "rights" to me.

As for neo-Confederates who like to wave their flags today, they don't bother me much. I'm far more concerned about the forces here and now, in 2011, who are seeking to beggar us ALL, no matter what our racial or ethnic background. Let a defanged, almost toothless NAACP give anyone they want their awards. The rest of us need to be sober and vigilant, and most of all, united.

Word -- what English said. Right on, especially this: The rest of us need to be sober and vigilant, and most of all, united

[professorscott]

I am not an expert on rap music or Mr. Ritchie's particular flavor of it, and I have no idea why the NAACP wants to honor him, but I do have some thoughts about the use of the Confederate flag in modern America.

There are two kinds of people flying the Confederate flag today: those who wish the CSA had won the war, and those who really don't understand what that flag represents. I've met both types, and my limited knowledge of Mr. Ritchie's history leads me to conclude he is probably of the second type. I could be wrong on that, but I doubt it.

So, I would surmise that like most popular entertainers, he is very familiar with popular culture but not especially well read up on certain aspects of our nation's history. I think, then, that this entire discussion has been blown way out of proportion.

If the NAACP has a reason to honor Mr. Ritchie, then God bless them and who are we to judge.

[R8RBOB]

There are two kinds of people flying the Confederate flag today: those who wish the CSA had won the war, and those who really don't understand what that flag represents. I've met both types, and my limited knowledge of Mr. Ritchie's history leads me to conclude he is probably of the second type. I could be wrong on that, but I doubt it.

In a previous comment, I pasted a link from HuffPost talks about this very subject so I will paste it again. Before I do, let me say that I agree with your latter 100%. Kid Rock is the same age as I am and surely he remembers the debates back in 2000 when the NAACP wanted South Carolina to remove the Confederate flag from the dome of the state capitol. Surely he remembers how the state of Georgia removed the stars and bars from the state flag leaving only Mississippi as the only state in the union who still have the emblem on the state flag. Surely the Kid remembers how Blacks in MS. got a referendum to remove the stars and bars from the state flag only to watch the residents of Mississippi vote no keeping the flag as is. Surely as a father to a son who is half-black, Robert Ritchie aka Kid Rock would know that displaying the flag anywhere would cause people to wonder.

You're right, Kid Rock who claimed the flag represented Southern rock and roll falls in that group that has no understanding what that flag means.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_831128.html

[East Detroit]

Perhaps this meeting with the NAACP can be used as a means to be inclusive and educating.

Perhaps Kid Rock will see that the flag is inappropriate and stop using it, and the NAACP membership will further see that persons not of color can work with persons of color to advance our good causes together [[as the NAACP was originally formed).

[jerrytimes]

Maybe this is what's wrong with people. The confederate flag does not mean what it used to mean. Now people use it if they have southern pride, like country and southern rock music and if they like the meaning of being a little 'redneck'. Society will never evolve if people have to always be offended by a piece of fabric.

[jerrytimes]

Perhaps this meeting with the NAACP can be used as a means to be inclusive and educating.

Perhaps Kid Rock will see that the flag is inappropriate and stop using it, and the NAACP membership will further see that persons not of color can work with persons of color to advance our good causes together [[as the NAACP was originally formed).

Give me a break. I'm so tired of people getting offended over trivial things. The people complaining about him using that flag, which I've hardly seen at his shows by the way, needs to stop. It's funny how this wasn't a problem until the NAACP wanted to honor him for his contributions, and then someone had to go cry about it. I've been to probably 7 of his shows [[my wife loves his music, I just go for the beer) and honestly, I really don't ever remember seeing the flag there..... MAYBE once.....

[English]

I'm so tired of people getting offended over trivial things.

Don't like Kid Rock's music at all, couldn't care less about what he does or represents or chooses to fly since it doesn't affect my life, but I don't get those who are "tired of people getting offended." As my friends like to say, do YOU -- and let others do THEM.

[canuck]

Here's the story of one guy who didnt know how significant the nazi salute is in modern day Germany and got an award for his ignorance...

http://www.montrealgazette.com/Quebe...754/story.html

I dont think this kind of law can happen in the US or Canada, the discourse on the significance of symbols is still alive. I kind of like the fact that the redneck guy had a redneck banner written across
the confederate flag in a sense though. But I heard of another weird fact about states adopting "official state guns" on a par with state birds or flowers...WTF?

[Whitehouse]

Gosh, who is the NAACP going to honor next? Skrewdriver? Sheesh ...

Next year, Ted Nugent.

[fryar]

Maybe this is what's wrong with people. The confederate flag does not mean what it used to mean. Now people use it if they have southern pride, like country and southern rock music and if they like the meaning of being a little 'redneck'. Society will never evolve if people have to always be offended by a piece of fabric.

Or tats. It seems like every time I go to the pool at the Y, I have to deliver a lecture on the value of orderliness and punctuality. Just because I have a giant swastika tatooed across my chest doesn't mean I hate Jews or anything.

[Scottathew]

NAACP is outdated. The NAACP must change it's mission, and name, to be for the advancement of civil rights for ALL people, not just blacks, or "colored people" as their name states.

[Jason]

The confederate flag does not mean what it used to mean. Now people use it if they have southern pride, like country and southern rock music and if they like the meaning of being a little 'redneck'.

I think professorscott's assessment is a good one.

So yeah, to some people the flag only means southern pride, but those people are also the ignorant people who don't know what the flag means.

And then there's the other type, where yes, the Confederate flag does mean southern pride, in the same way that the swastika means German pride.

At best the flag means "We wrongly lost the war. We used to be powerful and now the south is a dump. But we'll have our day. Keep the faith strong until then."

[Trumpeteer]

now the south is a dump. "

WOW Jason, incedibly insightful and right on the mark!

[Kevgoblue]

Give me a break. I'm so tired of people getting offended over trivial things. The people complaining about him using that flag, which I've hardly seen at his shows by the way, needs to stop.

Let me guess jerry. You're the guy who used to have no problem with anyone who looked to be of Arabic descent getting stopped and searched at the airport. But now that the TSA is expanding it's search criteria a little bit, you're at the gate screaming "Don't touch my junk!"

[gazhekwe]

Whirling timbers, a powerful symbol used by many tribes of pre-columbians on this continent for many hundreds of years, was destroyed in one generation of misuse by the Nazis. Now, those whose ancestry would point to a positive and powerful use of the whirling timbers symbol may not use it safely in a world whose madness poisoned the symbol. For some of us who grew up as Jim Crow was being forced to give in to equal access, the Confederate flag is forever poisoned as well.

[Gistok]

Gaz, the German's cringe everytime they dig up another ancient Roman mosaic floor with that same emblem... but they make no attempts to hide it, and display it explaining its' origins. I remember seeing one next to Cologne Cathedral in their Roman Museum.

[Hypestyles]

given the NAACP's major demographic of older [[baby-boomer age to seniors) members, I wonder if this issue was given consideration before the decision was made..

[Proslack]

On the one hand, I can understand those members who want to boycott the award presentation to Kid Rock for having the Confederate flag in such a bold display behind his stage performance. To those whose folks were the victims of that flag and what it represents, there is no compromise nor understanding of what it might mean to someone else.

On the other hand, would these same members boycott an award given to the author and composer of the folk hymn, Amazing Grace, because he was involved in the slave trade.

good question, but people really don't think that hard

[Jason]

WOW Jason, incedibly insightful and right on the mark!

lol, that's basically the jist of it though. At the time the rural south was a mighty economic powerhouse, and after the war the south's economy was devastated. Nowadays the urban south is catching up but the rural south is still in a horrible condition.

[REL]

Hold up, folks. The underlying issue is quite simple, regardless of the flag and regardless of what one may think of Mr. Ritchie on a personal or musical basis:

What the hell has Kid Rock done to advance people of color? [[*crickets chirping*) Yeah, that's what I thought. Isn't that what the award is for?

I am tempted to ask the NAACP to refund the balance of my membership over this. It offends me that they couldn't think of someone more deserving of this award than him. Surely there must be people who are working harder towards civil rights than this guy.

[Trumpeteer]

lol, that's basically the jist of it though. At the time the rural south was a mighty economic powerhouse, and after the war the south's economy was devastated. Nowadays the urban south is catching up but the rural south is still in a horrible condition.

Incredible insight, you must have first hand knowledge of that area??