Snyder is barking up the wrong tree if he tries to tax pensions.

lilpup · February-18-11, 04:40 PM

Littlebuddy, many seniors getting the large pensions own their homes free and clear - no mortgage or rent to pay - often have additional investment income as well as social security, and some still do work!

Snyder's not talking about taxing Social Security or those who are at bare minimums.

**Gistok** · February-18-11, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Searay215

I hope someone organizes a protest in Lansing like Egypt....I will be there.

Searay215... why look all the way to Egypt... just look at the drama playing out in Wisconsin right now... all of the Democratic state lawmakers have left the state so that the Republicans can't vote on unpopular items without them. All their school have been closed for several days because all the teachers have called in sick [[and gone to the state capitol).

**Searay215** · February-19-11, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Searay215... why look all the way to Egypt... just look at the drama playing out in Wisconsin right now... all of the Democratic state lawmakers have left the state so that the Republicans can't vote on unpopular items without them. All their school have been closed for several days because all the teachers have called in sick [[and gone to the state capitol).

I could not agree more.....heard on Channel 7 some woman is organizing on Facebook a rally on March 15th has anybody got a link? I can't find it...Thanks

**Searay215** · February-19-11, 12:11 AM

Link to planned protest on March 15th 2011

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Michig...90734047614966

littlebuddy · February-19-11, 08:49 AM

What about those who only have a federal pension and don't collect SS. Postal workers under civil service pension don't get SS.

**Danny** · February-19-11, 11:01 AM

What is that NERD tried to do. Shut the people of Michigan down! I'm going present these evidences to anyone who are sick and tired of cutting our Michigander lifestyle. People of Michigan UNITE! We have nothing to lose but our chains!

**oldredfordette** · February-19-11, 12:07 PM

There is a lobbying day and rally planned to Tuesday in Lansing. Detroiters can hook up at 9am at Central United Church on Woodward. You can RSVP at https://afl.salsalabs.com/o/4001/c/1...event_KEY=1129
Or just show up. I don't plan on lobbying, the time to ask is over [[IMHO).

**Bill07073** · February-20-11, 07:42 AM

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2011/02/...e-pension-tax/

**jerrytimes** · February-20-11, 02:30 PM

Fine by me. Everyone else has incomes that are taxed, including unemployment, 401k's, and investments. Michigan is one of the last states to do this.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · February-20-11, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by jerrytimes

Fine by me. Everyone else has incomes that are taxed, including unemployment, 401k's, and investments. Michigan is one of the last states to do this.

Obviously, you're still working. You'll change that tune fast, when you have to scrape by on a fixed income.

**Big Dog** · February-20-11, 04:14 PM

A fixed income goes down with inflation. No way to make it up. When you are working, it's possible to increase wages. Should 75 year olds have to sling burgers?

**Ray1936** · February-20-11, 06:17 PM

Well, just another kick in the pants to urge retirees to get the heck out of Michigan. Like me.

**firstandten** · February-20-11, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Ray1936

Well, just another kick in the pants to urge retirees to get the heck out of Michigan. Like me.

I could very well see an increase in retirees establishing residence in places like Florida and such as yourself Nevada. It would make economic sense and this might be the tipping point for many of them

**Searay215** · February-20-11, 07:28 PM

I know some of you say why not tax it, we are only 1 of 13 states that give this break....well........Just remember you will be that age one day....as my dad always said. "Be careful what you wish for"
Here is what I see as the big picture.....Tax pensions to the tune of "Snyders words" $900 million, now that is $900 million that can not be spent on goods and services, hence businesses, pay less taxes lay off workers, they now pay less taxes, may loose their home because of it, again less taxes and property values go down....Yep you guessed it less taxes. So really what is gained? What is Snyder going to do with the money? Pay down our debt? Give govenment employees a raise?

**Cincinnati_Kid** · February-21-11, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by lilpup

Littlebuddy, many seniors getting the large pensions own their homes free and clear - no mortgage or rent to pay - often have additional investment income as well as social security, and some still do work!

Snyder's not talking about taxing Social Security or those who are at bare minimums.

As far as I'm concerned, some of us are at bare minimums now.

**bailey** · February-21-11, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Big Dog

A fixed income goes down with inflation. No way to make it up. When you are working, it's possible to increase wages. Should 75 year olds have to sling burgers?

I'm going to sound completely like a dick here...but yes. I'm sorry, we're not talking about ALL 75 yr olds are we? We're talking about public sector retirees ONLY that have had this benefit and no one in the private sector has. Where it's likely going to end up is that its not kicking in until the same threshold is met that the private sector retirees get. I'm really sorry but if your pension INCOME is 45-100k+ on top of SS, and you can not afford 4%-ish in taxes [[after spending years and years getting all that tax free) you seriously fucked up your planning and have much bigger problems.

Also, maybe we are past the point in our country where retirees [[especially those in the public sector) can reasonably expect to spend 35-40 years on vacation. Those of us staring at a SS system that will be functionally insolvent decades before we can retire and having to rely COMPLETELY on 401ks ...well, you can play me the world's saddest song on the tiniest violin.

**Locke09** · February-21-11, 04:45 PM

Michigan already taxes private pensions, so I am not sure why it is being said that we are one of 13 states that don't. Michigan exempts the first $45,000 from taxation and taxes the remainder.

Snyder is now proposing a) taxing public pensions, private pensions and even IRA withdrawals, and b) eliminating the minimum so that all retiree income will be taxed.

So, the person getting $10,000 or $20,00 or whatever will have their money taxed. There is no minimum that is being exempted anymore. This would be more reasonable if he just lowered the minimum threshold.

And it is being done not to pay off any state debts, but to cover the tax break that is being given to businesses via elimination of the MBT.

And in today's eceonomy more and more people are actually going to be "on vacation" as someone said for 35-40 years or more. Because people in their late forties and above who have been laid off are not likely to find any meaningful employment. Age discrimination is very real and goes unaddressed all the while they are encouraging you to work longer.

So, the fifty-something person was lucky if they had a pension to fall on after their company down-sized. I know down-sized engineers and technology professionals who fall in that category and they are working part-time security jobs, school bus-driver jobs, etc. to supplement their pensions because they were not ready to "go on vacation". But we're still bringing in engineers and technology workers on visas and pretending we don't have enough of them in America already.

**lpg** · February-21-11, 05:09 PM

This is the opening shot of the generational war. The younger generation pitted against the older folks. Why pay for something you are not going to get, or so the reasoning goes. This plays right into the hands of those wishing to eliminate social programs like Social Security, Medicare for the elderly. In 1980 I read a story that the Federal government could not repay the interest owed to Social Security much less the principle. The surplus which was put there by us boomers and our parents, was spent with abandon and IOU's tossed back into the pot. Traditional pensions for the private sector are increasingly rare. The 401k's are a crapshoot at best. We will be soon returning the the old days, when your retirement starts right after your heart stops.

**bailey** · February-22-11, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by lpg

This is the opening shot of the generational war. The younger generation pitted against the older folks. Why pay for something you are not going to get, or so the reasoning goes. This plays right into the hands of those wishing to eliminate social programs like Social Security, Medicare for the elderly. In 1980 I read a story that the Federal government could not repay the interest owed to Social Security much less the principle. The surplus which was put there by us boomers and our parents, was spent with abandon and IOU's tossed back into the pot. Traditional pensions for the private sector are increasingly rare. The 401k's are a crapshoot at best. We will be soon returning the the old days, when your retirement starts right after your heart stops.

It's not a "generational war" coming, its a day of reckoning. The current retiring and retired baby boomers are the ones who wrecked the economy and punted any responsibility to those of us in the later generations. "greatest generation"--you raised a bunch of entitled brats that refused to be responsible stewards for you and for their offspring. Baby boomers--- sorry your chickens have come home to roost now that you wanted to start that 40 years of paid vacation. Welcome to the reality you created. The rest of us have to live here in the real world, so should you. Start coughing up 4%.

**Zacha341** · February-22-11, 11:08 AM

WELL STATED.... and we're gonna reap more at the national level from the 'kick the can down the road' practices of both the DEMS and REPUBS! Oh and SNYDER will carry this water... afterall he's a repub and this is what they DO... [[smile)... it will be forgotten what led up to this. You know.........

Originally Posted by gnome

Leaders lead, right now we are in a world of hurt and anyone who doesn't think that fixing our mess won't hurt is fooling themselves. Everyone will be taking a huge bite of a poo sandwich: kids, education, the sick, the poor, the old, cities, counties, the arts, parks ... Pick your favorite thing and it will take a hit.

This is the cost of kicking the budgetary can down the road. You can blame Jenny, John, Jimmy or even Bill Milliken; but the guy you can't blame is Snyder.

gdogslim · February-22-11, 11:32 AM

This country is broke on all levels. Obama has spent more in two years than all past presidents combined.
Obama wants to borrow money from the Chinese communists to build a high speed rail.
If something doesn't change we will end up like Greece or some other socialist broke country.

Everyone pays taxes wether they realize it or not on almost every level. At the gas pump, at the grocery store, [[corporate taxes are included in prices before the retailer sells it),
A lottery ticket purchase is a tax. [[a voluntary tax) and most don't even realize it.
Does anyone think it is wrong for people to be taxed something for all the benefits they receive.

Top 1% pay 37% of federal taxes is that 'fair' ?
top 5% pay 57% of " "
top 10% pay 68% of " "
top 25% pay 85% of " " So 25 people pay for 60 other people wants and needs.

**lpg** · February-22-11, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

It's not a "generational war" coming, its a day of reckoning. The current retiring and retired baby boomers are the ones who wrecked the economy and punted any responsibility to those of us in the later generations. "greatest generation"--you raised a bunch of entitled brats that refused to be responsible stewards for you and for their offspring. Baby boomers--- sorry your chickens have come home to roost now that you wanted to start that 40 years of paid vacation. Welcome to the reality you created. The rest of us have to live here in the real world, so should you. Start coughing up 4%.

So you must agree with my earlier post ????

**Kevgoblue** · February-22-11, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Locke09

So, the fifty-something person was lucky if they had a pension to fall on after their company down-sized. I know down-sized engineers and technology professionals who fall in that category and they are working part-time security jobs, school bus-driver jobs, etc. to supplement their pensions because they were not ready to "go on vacation". But we're still bringing in engineers and technology workers on visas and pretending we don't have enough of them in America already.

Much like Snyder taxing the pensions of retirees. It's to offset the cost of reduced taxes for business. The country is going through a jobless recovery from this recession, but no one is calling for reduced numbers of H1B Visas. That is because this also is a direct benefit to businesses in minimizing their labor costs.
Horray for unlimited anonymous funding of politcal campaigns!

**Hypestyles** · February-23-11, 04:21 PM

...So why not a services tax, 3%, it could help in the long run--

**maxx** · February-24-11, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

You still haven't explained why this one form of income should be treated differently than any other kind of income.

Seniors with pensions buy goods and services here. The ones who can may head for Florida etc. permanently leaving Michigan with even fewer consumers with money.

And where is Snyder's business acumen when he is meddling with the movie business here that has a return of 6 to 1 for us? Just call us Michissippi.