Painting Detroit

[ruffsicle]

You know what, I'm done. You are the true Detroiters that let the city become what it is. I am smart enough to admit there have been good points. ON BOTH SIDES. But there is no point in arguing anymore because you will never yield to any of our points whether they are valid or not. Because if you give in then you admit that you let this happen. It is now up to my generation to fix your problems.

[johnkuhnphoto]

No, no. How about if YOU buy the building, and then you could paint [[and clean) your own property? Also, even if no one HERE owns the buildings that you have already vandalized, SOMEONE does. So, why DON'T you go back and clean it up?

Because they need to be torn down to save them.

[johnkuhnphoto]

i wasnt questioning the legality of what you were doing, i was questioning the artistic merit which you chose to ignore in my post.

isnt that the challenge of a good photographer? ive lost interest in these places but while i was shooting them i was doing so in new and interesting ways, challenging myself. i think the easy way out is to throw some paint down, photograph, and call it art.

how did you challenge yourself?

[johnkuhnphoto]

I started drafting a letter to CCS this morning as well. I will email you, and maybe we can combine.

see, if you put even close to this much effort in doing something for the city. maybe you could make a difference!

[johnkuhnphoto]

Using existing crime to justify committing further crime? FAIL

The artist has used a public forum to promote a showing of his work. Work that was created through criminal acts. FAIL

Yes the artist has a great eye for color. WIN

However he has lost respect for his subject and the law. FAIL

I highly encourage those who disapprove of his methodologies to call the CCS executive office and voice your opinion-313.664.7470

Those who would feel comfortable appearing on camera to express their feelings, write an email to Roop Raj roop.raj@foxtv.com

and an FYI, antique hand carts go from anywhere between $500-$1500 bucks...

http://www.antiquefactorycartcoffeet...able-carts.php

very original... anyways, im not into selling the carts. so why does it matter?

[johnkuhnphoto]

lol. I have no idea what the school has do with this at all. Really, think about it. Do you think they are giving this out as an assignment? Again, maybe you should try going after the the actual threats to these properties. The people that own these buildings let them sit and rot. They don't care that they are littered with drugs and human feces. If they did, they would actually put some effort in boarding them up and taking care of them. Or maybe they would actually fix them up. At least he's actually doing something with them. It's not like he's going to buildings that are in use.

I think the reactions here have been way overblown and exaggerated. You need to think about the intent of the artist. I don't think he's plotting to piss people off and create shock value. If he was, why would he post it on a "DetroitYes" forum?

thank you.... exactly what im trying to say... and yes, he is correct. its not about shock value at ALL. and ccs has nothing to do with this project.

[johnkuhnphoto]

It's not just John Kuhn that's stepped over the line. CCS is literally promoting this. Surely someone at CCS has prior knowledge of his activities. Apparently the leadership of CCS is OK with what he's doing. That's disturbing. CCS is on balance a positive force in the city [[despite the segment of their students who are knuckleheads) but condoning this kind of art project is not something CCS ought to be doing.

ccs has nothing to do with the project.

[johnkuhnphoto]

"They don't care that they are littered with drugs and human feces. If they did, they would actually put some effort in boarding them up and taking care of them. Or maybe they would actually fix them up. At least he's actually doing something with them."

Yeah he's "doing something" with the buildings the same way people who leave their drug paraphernalia around and take shits in the middle of the floor are "doing something" with the building.

yes, to some its a means of survival.

[johnkuhnphoto]

No, they may not have assigned it in the sense that they instructed him to break into and vandalize property, but they are promoting the show where this work will be on display. He has also presented himself as a student, and therefore a representative of CCS. So, yes, CCS does need to know that [[at least part) of the Community is unhappy with their pupil.

In fact, when I was at MSU, there was a Morals Clause to my acceptance into the College of Educaion, whereby I had to agree to not break the law. The University could have taken action [[dismissal from the program) if I had done so, even though my actions would not have been part of an assignment.


Firstly, I don't buy the "someone else is already doing wrong, therefore my wrongdoing is justified" argument. As someone else pointed out, can we use that same argument to justify scrappers? Of course not, because it is silly. The current state of the buildings is something for the City and the owner to work out, but the perpetuation of valdalism and blight, for ANY reason, only continues the cycle and makes the properties less likely to be rehabbed.

Secondly, I douby very much that he is investigating the status of these properties, and therefore has no real clue as to whether or not the buildings are "in use" in the sense that development has started, or is about to be started.


I don't care about the intent of the artist. What he is doing is illegal and destructive. My personal opinion about the aesthetic appeal if said "art" aside, it is still vandalism.

you are one person in the community. out of probably hundreds that have see it. love it. and have bought the work.

[Richard]

No where in any of these photos did John "tag" a building that had an owner like you. No one is renovating these properties. These are not homes where people actually live. If they were taken care, of he wouldn't be able to just walk right through the door. John has taken nothing of value from these buildings. He isn't going to cause someone to go out and buy expensive replacement parts. Paint fades and can be washed off. He has already expressed a willingness to come powerwash it off. Im sorry but no one is going to buy the packard plant as an investment. I think we can all agree that these most of these buildings are abandoned because they were in some way unsafe for normal use. Asbestos, structural damage, fire damage. A couple of gallons of paint is not what's stopping investors. The buildings are.

Wow can I hire you as an investment counselor as it seems you are much more skilled at appraising properties and whether they are worth rehabilitating then the experts I had to pay in order to buy one of those properties that you are saying nobody is going to buy.

I have my numbers where are yours to back this statement up?

Just like the bs about offering the city $70 grand to the city for the school ,the city cannot sell the school it is owned by DPS the city is just the collector of the funds for DPS and they will not sell a school without covenants in place not to make it into another school as in charter school , the taxpayers payed for that school why should it be sold to private enterprise to compete against DPS.

Did your friends turn those covenants in with their offer to DPS? If they did then post it here because then it could be used in a valid way other then trying to drag the city through the mud using an argument that they have no control over.

[johnkuhnphoto]

Well yeah, nothing is worth risking your life over. I know quite a few people that have gotten their asses kicked and stuff stolen. It doesn't seem to stop people. But I don't get the "while I don't condone violence, it happens" mentality. Why are we shrugging off violence?

sounds like it to me...

[johnkuhnphoto]

If someone comes onto this website bragging about violence against an urban explorer, artist, etc. I will report all available information to the police.

well we already have 2, and still counting.

[silverbeauty]

John,
Despite the controversy, I always have been a fan of your work. I wish you the best of luck as you pursue your passion for photography. I think you are talented and hope you succeed in achieving your dreams

Stop by the silver store and say hi some time.

[johnkuhnphoto]

John,
Despite the controversy, I always have been a fan of your work. I wish you the best of luck as you pursue your passion for photography. I think you are talented and hope you succeed in achieving your dreams

Stop by the silver store and say hi some time.

thank you.

got an address. ill take you up on that. i would love to check out whats going on there.

[kahnman]

John, at this point in the discussion I think more than a few of us are wondering what in the %$# are you doing still coming here and dutifully responding to most of the posters here? Is this part of your senior thesis? Are you trying to "intellectually challenge and confront our bourgeois attitudes"?

Look, even your fellow CCS mates are giving up and laying down the tire iron - the horse is DEAD!

Please, do us all a favor. Learn from this lesson. Just because the total sum of your years on this planet have lead you to believe that you have created something truly original that total strangers are going to accept and praise you for - guess what? Not everyone "gets" it! Deal with it and quit trying to change the strong convictions that most people on this forum have. To them, it's not about your definition of "art", it is their definition of "home". Do you get that !?! They don't appreciate what you have done to the macrocosm of their home.

Criminy! Lets all just go over to the Garwood Mansion thread and be done with it...

[Gistok]

You know what, I'm done. You are the true Detroiters that let the city become what it is. I am smart enough to admit there have been good points. ON BOTH SIDES. But there is no point in arguing anymore because you will never yield to any of our points whether they are valid or not. Because if you give in then you admit that you let this happen. It is now up to my generation to fix your problems.

I agree this thread has run its' course... I think the OP has admitted that some of his actions were not the best thought out... and if that is all he got from this thread, then it was worth it.

But to keep rehashing everything is pointless.

As for what generation will fix what's wrong with Detroit... it took many generations for the problems to arise... and it will take the work of more than the young generation to fix them. But I think some lessons have been learned. Nuff said....

[johnkuhnphoto]

John, at this point in the discussion I think more than a few of us are wondering what in the %$# are you doing still coming here and dutifully responding to most of the posters here? Is this part of your senior thesis? Are you trying to "intellectually challenge and confront our bourgeois attitudes"?

Look, even your fellow CCS mates are giving up and laying down the tire iron - the horse is DEAD!

Please, do us all a favor. Learn from this lesson. Just because the total sum of your years on this planet have lead you to believe that you have created something truly original that total strangers are going to accept and praise you for - guess what? Not everyone "gets" it! Deal with it and quit trying to change the strong convictions that most people on this forum have. To them, it's not about your definition of "art", it is their definition of "home". Do you get that !?! They don't appreciate what you have done to the macrocosm of their home.

Criminy! Lets all just go over to the Garwood Mansion thread and be done with it...

im not trying to change anyones anything. just continuing as people continue to respond. i know not every one "gets it" i stated that a while back. no ones stopping you from going to that thread. cya later

[johnkuhnphoto]

I agree this thread has run its' course... I think the OP has admitted that some of his actions were not the best thought out... and if that is all he got from this thread, then it was worth it.

But to keep rehashing everything is pointless.

As for what generation will fix what's wrong with Detroit... it took many generations for the problems to arise... and it will take the work of more than the young generation to fix them. But I think some lessons have been learned. Nuff said....

its seems to be getting redundant. agreed.

i too agree it will take generations. usually its takes a city 2x longer to fix its self then it does to destroy it.

[East Detroit]

It will take even longer if places like CCS decide that vandalizing the city is okay and encourage it by rewarding said vandals/criminals with exhibitions. Seems that they are complicit, based on the information in this thread.

[laurie1st]

Wow, see I think what it all comes down to here is money...

It's not about money. I would feel the same way if he came from a poor suburb, or from the City itself. But there is also a facet of this argument that points to how suburbanites treat this City like their personal playground to do with as they please.

Also, he has not just "taken pictures of vandalized buildings". He has vandalized buildings, and then taken pictures. There is a HUGE difference, and if you can't see that then YOU are what's wrong with Detroit, not us.

Finally, no one has asked that he be kicked out of school. Did you read the letter that majohnson emailed last night? I doubt you were on that list, but I will enlighten you that it did not ask for him to be kicked out of CCS.

[laurie1st]

We are the Detroiters who let the City become what it is?

The Detroiters who came here, bought property, had families, support local business, and get involved in our communities? Think about what you are saying for a second.

Compare that to the Detroiters who come here vandalize buildings, make excuses, and treat the City like a dumping ground.

Clearly, I am not the problem. Also, I am not that much older than you, and I doubt you will be living here in 10 years, so you won't be fixing anything.

[laurie1st]

Because they need to be torn down to save them.

Wow, I didn't realize that CCS offered courses in Structural Engineering.

[laurie1st]

see, if you put even close to this much effort in doing something for the city. maybe you could make a difference!

You have no idea what my contributions have been to this City. Rest assured that the sum total of those efforts have amounted to much, MUCH more than vandalism.

[johnkuhnphoto]

Wow, I didn't realize that CCS offered courses in Structural Engineering.

you dont have to be one to figure that out. fire and water damage along cause many problems. also the broken everything. walls falling down. roofs caving in.
wilber school was one of the ones that seems most structurally sound. what happened to that building?

who knows if ill be here in 10 years. the art scene has left the city! there are some of us trying to bring it back.

im glad you are doing something. so am i.

[13074Glenfield]

i cant even read those
on mine, and on other computers at the school it did, same with my friends comps...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/paintin...5999/lightbox/

That's not whatn"being number 5 on google" means! You searched the words painting Detroit and then your web site was listed fifth. That's really lame. I don't think you were making stuff up, I just think you did not understand the meaning of the term that you used.