Painting Detroit

[laurie1st]

detr0itkid: I couldn't agree more. Speaking as a property owner, as well as a person who actively participates in renovation and revitilization efforts, I do not believe that this particular effort is doing anything good for Detroit or Detroiters. It is not creating a "culture and environment of creation", or whatever that BS was. Instead it is perpetuating a culture and environment of crime, destruction, and blight.

This is not what I want in my community, speaking as a Real Detroiter, as opposed to someone who has moved here on Daddy's dime, and will likely bail back to Bingham Farms at the first opportunity. Detroit is not a playgorund for lawlessness and destruction, even if you call it "art". Methinks that the "artist" would not ever dream of painting a vacant building in his hometown, and I think that says a lot.

[warsaw7]

[QUOTE=ruffsicle;224485]No one is asking you to approve of this work. Though I do find it interesting that if John were to have the notoriety that say "Banksy" has this wouldn't even be an issue. We are all aware of the spotlight that is on Detroit.QUOTE]

Ugh gah! Banksy?! I thought this issue was dead in like August 2010..........

[DetroitPole]

I am going to put together some documentation demonstrating this 'artist' knowingly vandalized a building not belonging to him.
Based on his website, comments in this forum, and legal documentation of the building ownership.
I will combine that with a letter of concern to CCS.
Would anyone be willing to take part in a group email when I get the documents together?

email me at:
marcus_dag@hotmail.com

Thank you, Majohnson. I'm going to e-mail you now. I guess we're finally taking that preservationist action that John Kuhn has been imploring us to take[[in addition to the things we've already been doing).

[laurie1st]

I started drafting a letter to CCS this morning as well. I will email you, and maybe we can combine.

[hamtown mike]

I did not say for anyone to come clean up lots in my "hood." I said it's easy to talk shit about beating the shit out of a white kid in art school. Yet you don't step up and stop other petty crime. So your right where do we draw the line? Are you going to start beating the shit out of prostitutes? People who sell drugs? It's time to clean up the city right? Best get too it

Using existing crime to justify committing further crime? FAIL

The artist has used a public forum to promote a showing of his work. Work that was created through criminal acts. FAIL

Yes the artist has a great eye for color. WIN

However he has lost respect for his subject and the law. FAIL

I highly encourage those who disapprove of his methodologies to call the CCS executive office and voice your opinion-313.664.7470

Those who would feel comfortable appearing on camera to express their feelings, write an email to Roop Raj roop.raj@foxtv.com

and an FYI, antique hand carts go from anywhere between $500-$1500 bucks...

http://www.antiquefactorycartcoffeet...able-carts.php

[hermousefriday]

I started drafting a letter to CCS this morning as well. I will email you, and maybe we can combine.

lol. I have no idea what the school has do with this at all. Really, think about it. Do you think they are giving this out as an assignment? Again, maybe you should try going after the the actual threats to these properties. The people that own these buildings let them sit and rot. They don't care that they are littered with drugs and human feces. If they did, they would actually put some effort in boarding them up and taking care of them. Or maybe they would actually fix them up. At least he's actually doing something with them. It's not like he's going to buildings that are in use.

I think the reactions here have been way overblown and exaggerated. You need to think about the intent of the artist. I don't think he's plotting to piss people off and create shock value. If he was, why would he post it on a "DetroitYes" forum?

[hamtown mike]

No one is asking you to approve of this work. Though I do find it interesting that if John were to have the notoriety that say "Banksy" has this wouldn't even be an issue.

Banksy has not come to a public forum to promote a showing of his work.

[Det_ard]

The Painting Detroit series will be shown at the location and time below. The show is called Focally Grown. It is a show for us seniors at the College for Creative Studies [[CCS)!

Time
Friday, February 25 · 6:00pm - 9:00pm

Location
Valade Family Gallery, Taubman Center
485 W. Milwaukee
Detroit, MI

It's not just John Kuhn that's stepped over the line. CCS is literally promoting this. Surely someone at CCS has prior knowledge of his activities. Apparently the leadership of CCS is OK with what he's doing. That's disturbing. CCS is on balance a positive force in the city [[despite the segment of their students who are knuckleheads) but condoning this kind of art project is not something CCS ought to be doing.

[ruxy17]

"They don't care that they are littered with drugs and human feces. If they did, they would actually put some effort in boarding them up and taking care of them. Or maybe they would actually fix them up. At least he's actually doing something with them."

Yeah he's "doing something" with the buildings the same way people who leave their drug paraphernalia around and take shits in the middle of the floor are "doing something" with the building.

[Det_ard]

The arguments advanced by the artist's supporters are really juvenile and one-dimensional. If they're CCS students, my impression of the caliber of CCS as an institution is starting to suffer.

[hermousefriday]

To say he's as bad as those people is just silly. The city has a ton of other problems going on, this isn't one we should be crying and bitching about.

[laurie1st]

lol. I have no idea what the school has do with this at all. Really, think about it. Do you think they are giving this out as an assignment??

No, they may not have assigned it in the sense that they instructed him to break into and vandalize property, but they are promoting the show where this work will be on display. He has also presented himself as a student, and therefore a representative of CCS. So, yes, CCS does need to know that [[at least part) of the Community is unhappy with their pupil.

In fact, when I was at MSU, there was a Morals Clause to my acceptance into the College of Educaion, whereby I had to agree to not break the law. The University could have taken action [[dismissal from the program) if I had done so, even though my actions would not have been part of an assignment.

Again, maybe you should try going after the the actual threats to these properties. The people that own these buildings let them sit and rot. They don't care that they are littered with drugs and human feces. If they did, they would actually put some effort in boarding them up and taking care of them. Or maybe they would actually fix them up. At least he's actually doing something with them. It's not like he's going to buildings that are in use.

Firstly, I don't buy the "someone else is already doing wrong, therefore my wrongdoing is justified" argument. As someone else pointed out, can we use that same argument to justify scrappers? Of course not, because it is silly. The current state of the buildings is something for the City and the owner to work out, but the perpetuation of valdalism and blight, for ANY reason, only continues the cycle and makes the properties less likely to be rehabbed.

Secondly, I douby very much that he is investigating the status of these properties, and therefore has no real clue as to whether or not the buildings are "in use" in the sense that development has started, or is about to be started.

I think the reactions here have been way overblown and exaggerated. You need to think about the intent of the artist. I don't think he's plotting to piss people off and create shock value. If he was, why would he post it on a "DetroitYes" forum?

I don't care about the intent of the artist. What he is doing is illegal and destructive. My personal opinion about the aesthetic appeal if said "art" aside, it is still vandalism.

[detroitlives]

I will gladly be a part of a submission to CCS.

313-449-9404 / wbradleymccallum@gmail.com

Let me know how I can help.

[LodgeDodger]

It IS vandalism. Quite the arrogant little cuss, aren't we? I hardly find your work to be considered "art". Just wait until the day you enter one of these buildings and get the living shit kicked out of you by folks who find violence an interesting past time.

[kahnman]

In the wise words of detrioturbex, " Just walk away" John. If you can't see the growing firestorm on the horizon, you had better wake up. This is not the kind of google hits you need and I really don't think anyone is going to be "exiting through the gift shop" for your work.

I mean come on, anyone over the age of 20 has seen that style of expression done for decades and re-contextualizing by taking pictures of it does not make it "new". Next time, google Andy Goldsworthy for inspiration and use the found materials of the city and create something quasi-original. You have the world's largest urban canvas - use it, without abusing it.

[hermousefriday]

It IS vandalism. Quite the arrogant little cuss, aren't we? I hardly find your work to be considered "art". Just wait until the day you enter one of these buildings and get the living shit kicked out of you by folks who find violence an interesting past time.

...yet nobody is up in arms about those folks. Weird.

[majohnson]

I am against all crime in Detroit.
I am especially disturbed by people who seek to popularize and even legitimize their crimes.

Criminal activity in Detroit is wrong.
Being in the D does not give you the right to do what you wanna.

[LodgeDodger]

...yet nobody is up in arms about those folks. Weird.

While I don't condone violence, it happens. Going into abandoned buildings and playing artist exposes these kids to a certain element. The truth is, there are unsavory folks who hang out in abandoned buildings. They get their kicks by stealing equipment and kicking the shit out of suburban kids who don't belong there. Do I agree with it? No, but it happens. Why risk such danger?

[hermousefriday]

Well yeah, nothing is worth risking your life over. I know quite a few people that have gotten their asses kicked and stuff stolen. It doesn't seem to stop people. But I don't get the "while I don't condone violence, it happens" mentality. Why are we shrugging off violence?

[majohnson]

If someone comes onto this website bragging about violence against an urban explorer, artist, etc. I will report all available information to the police.

[LodgeDodger]

Well yeah, nothing is worth risking your life over. I know quite a few people that have gotten their asses kicked and stuff stolen. It doesn't seem to stop people. But I don't get the "while I don't condone violence, it happens" mentality. Why are we shrugging off violence?

Why are they placing themselves in potentially violent situations? The Detroit Police Department is short-handed as it is. To expect protection while trespassing in an abandoned building is foolish.

[ruffsicle]

Wow, see I think what it all comes down to here is money. Bingham farms and all that. Yes we get it he is from a well off family. Its been said. You have no idea if he is here on "daddy's dime" or his own merit. He may have a full time job and volunteer at soup kitchens. YOU HAVE NO IDEA. So why do you automatically assume? If this was a poor kid with spray paint would you be making such a fuss? Would you demand vigilante justice? Probably not. I hope the kid is loaded I'm pretty sure if mommy and daddy are paving his way they will continue to do so in this matter as well. Wouldn't that be fun for you?

Yes we all get that he has taken pictures of vandalized buildings. That too has been said. Hurray for you. Why do you differentiate between his crimes and the many people who have openly committed crimes on here? I have heard of people who claim to have urban explored long before it was fashionable. Going into a building that does not belong to you is illegal. Whether you paint it or not. That is trespassing. Unlawful entry. In some cases breaking and entering. So let's not cast stones here.

I have also heard a lot of talk about threatening John and his family and their property. Im pretty sure that this is also illegal. I may only go to CCS but I do know how to google. So breaking the law is ok in the case of your fellow posters but not when John Kuhn does it. Although I think we would agree that vandalism doesn't have quite the ring to it that assault does.

He pays tuition at CCS. They may side with you but at this point what do you think they are really going to do? He's almost done. This is his senior thesis. Committing a crime is not going to get him kicked out of school.

[ruffsicle]

The arguments advanced by the artist's supporters are really juvenile and one-dimensional. If they're CCS students, my impression of the caliber of CCS as an institution is starting to suffer.

I think your impression of CCS started to go down as soon as you realized it takes money to go there. The CCS comments started pages ago. I would think as reasonable business and home owners you would be happy to have an institution that brings money, jobs and good press to the area. Yet as soon as you heard he was an art student you pushed it off like he was a rich kid from the suburbs and therefore not a "true Detroiter." News flash were not all rich, and art school takes up more of my time than my full time job does.

[ruffsicle]

Using existing crime to justify committing further crime? FAIL

I have read on here more than once that John was getting his ass kicked. So trying to make a point against me and instead proving my point hamtown Mike FAIL

[ruffsicle]

You shoot ruin porn with paint on it.
[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman] I own and am currently renovating both a house in North Corktown and a storefront w/ apartment above in South West Detroit. I’m spending a lot of money on both projects. Both had stolen plumbing, leaky roofs, had most of the windows smashed out/boarded up, and sat abandoned for extended periods of time. The house has been protected as I have fenced it in, have dogs living there and I am there daily. The store which had a fire is being renovated from the inside out, and has been a different story. Kids who don’t know shit about shit have tagged the exterior on multiple occasions, making it look more neglected than it is. Shortly there after crack heads who also don’t know shit about shit then came and stole my electrical service from the pole.

No where in any of these photos did John "tag" a building that had an owner like you. No one is renovating these properties. These are not homes where people actually live. If they were taken care, of he wouldn't be able to just walk right through the door. John has taken nothing of value from these buildings. He isn't going to cause someone to go out and buy expensive replacement parts. Paint fades and can be washed off. He has already expressed a willingness to come powerwash it off. Im sorry but no one is going to buy the packard plant as an investment. I think we can all agree that these most of these buildings are abandoned because they were in some way unsafe for normal use. Asbestos, structural damage, fire damage. A couple of gallons of paint is not what's stopping investors. The buildings are.