Painting Detroit

**johnkuhnphoto** · February-17-11, 07:57 PM

it seems there are a lot people that feel strongly about the buildings that are falling apart. and these people are doing nothing to save them. and by save them, you could say tear them down because most are not safe and the only way to fix them is to be torn down and rebuilt.

**Downtown Lady** · February-17-11, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by East Detroit

You are breaking the law.

Originally Posted by johnkuhnphoto

no im not

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**East Detroit** · February-17-11, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by johnkuhnphoto

whos that?

The 63 yr old Owner of the Accounting firm at the same address you registered your websites to. Also has the same last name as you.

So, again, is it okay for us to tag that accounting firm on Telegraph if we don't like the building?

Also, how about that place on Miller Way?

DetroitPole · February-17-11, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by johnkuhnphoto

it seems there are a lot people that feel strongly about the buildings that are falling apart. and these people are doing nothing to save them. and by save them, you could say tear them down because most are not safe and the only way to fix them is to be torn down and rebuilt.

First of all, what the hell are you talking about?

Secondly, what gives you the qualifications to speak on the structural soundness of buildings? You're not an engineer, you're not anything but a common criminal, from the looks of things.

Regardless of the condition you deem the buildings, they're not yours to vandalize. And those overpasses look pretty structurally sound to me, those ones you defaced. Did the residents of the area ask you to do that?

What building did I buy? My fucking house. And I had to work my ass off to do it. Something you know nothing about. Too chickenshit to get a job and earn an honest living?

It's sad. I think your work has merit but you are obviously both a deeply troubled and totally insensitive human being. If you were a better person you could really be a fine artist.

**East Detroit** · February-17-11, 08:34 PM

No, actually you are far from correct. There are many active preservationists here as well as citizens of the City of Detroit doing their part.

**detroiturbex** · February-17-11, 09:56 PM

John. Walk away.

I know you came here thinking you'd get support for your work; instead you've gotten kicked in the balls and you're trying to argue your way out. Arguing is not going to help, not one bit. Not when you're on the wrong side of a subject that people feel very, very passionate about. Reading this thread is like watching a traveling salesman try to win over a family of devout southern Baptists by sodomizing a horse on Dale Earnhardts grave while wearing the American flag as a cape. You won't win. You won't change any minds. You're just going to keep pissing more and more people off until something terrible happens, and then this isn't just a stupid thread on the internet anymore, its an especially topical episode of COPS.

Let this one go. Consider this matter from the point of view of the people here, no matter how wrong you think they are, sign off, cancel your account, and go your own way. Chalk this one up as a learning experience and cut your losses.

If you take just one thing away from all this, please let it be that while you're entitled to your own pursuit of happiness, it should not be at the expense of another person - or that person's home.

**Det_ard** · February-17-11, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by southen

as for bringing attention to these places for others, i think you are a little late to that party. detroit's ruins have been well documented and have gotten more than enough attention. i started exploring back in 2005 before things exploded when it was a small community of people who knew how to enter these places. our motto was always 'take only pictures, leave only footprints' and im proud to say that we never broke into these places and certainly werent destructive. by 2008 exploring had become so popular that i lost interest in it altogether. when suburban soccer moms are starting to get into places thats the time to get out...

You may be betraying your age a bit, there's been a fair amount of exploring going on for years. If the web and digital photography had been mainstream in the 80's and 90's we'd have online evidence of widespread urban exploring going back before the current class of artists and photographers were born. What photos there are from back then are collecting dust in shoeboxes. Not too much new under the sun, including the new crop of creative types that think what they're doing is novel. That's the challenge today, so many artists, so little real creativity.

Not to disparage your photography, southen, it's top rate. Not always ground-breaking, but it needn't be to be excellent. On the other hand, johnkuhnphoto, when 100 artists try to be unique, what results 99 times is just dumb shit. Better to be excellent than special, unless you're that 1 in 100. And I'm sorry, but it appears you're not.

**ruffsicle** · February-17-11, 10:49 PM

I find it amusing that everyone is up in arms about entering an abandoned building and painting it, which is yes we agree illegal. These buildings are wide open for exploration. Even if you only leave footprints, that is still illegal. It doesn't make your crimes better because they were "victimless."

It is also illegal to publicly threaten someone's family and property. I would hope for your sake that nothing happens to John if something were to happen it would be very obvious who to turn too wouldn't it? Anyone can lurk on Facebook, it does not make you someone to be feared. It makes you a braying jackass, full of empty threats.

I know a local businessman who was looking to buy the Wilbur school even after John painted it. He bought prints from John because he supports the message. This man offered the city 70,000 to buy the school and not only did the city turn him down, they tore it down. At a cost well over 100,000. Evidently the city isn't able to do math. Are you focusing on bad spending? Are you marching in front of city hall?

I think we have bigger fish to fry than some kid painting buildings. I live in an area where 70% of the homes are burned out or used for drug deals. Your not patrolling the streets here. You want to beat up the rich kid from the suburbs but I don't see you knocking on doors and stopping the drug dealers. Vigilante Justice? What you wear tights and go after those who don't really pose a threat? We all live here, you come around and start picking up the empty lots full of garbage on my street then we can talk. Until then get off your soapbox.

GUSHI · February-17-11, 10:52 PM

My dog loves to spill paint, wow he's a artist also. Looks like shit.

**ruffsicle** · February-17-11, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

Would you be happy if somebody dumped a can of paint on your car? It would not matter if it was a rusted out piece of junk that nobody wanted.The fact is that car is your property and nobody else would have the right to do anything with it.

It is called respect.

It's called insurance and I have it on all property that I care about

**ruffsicle** · February-17-11, 10:59 PM

No one is asking you to approve of this work. Though I do find it interesting that if John were to have the notoriety that say "Banksy" has this wouldn't even be an issue. We are all aware of the spotlight that is on Detroit. We get it. You were Detroit before it was cool. Little bit of a hipster after all eh?

Even though John may come from money he has chosen to make a life here. In Detroit. He works here, goes to school here and creates here. That gives him a say on what happens here. Time, care, and money is put into this work. Paint isn’t cheap and carrying it isn’t easy. Even though you may not think of it as art, your still thinking about it. The art is in the photo not the painting and these are very attractive images.

Don't give me bullshit about the sanctity of sidewalks and overpasses. It's housepaint. It will wash off and fade. If it was a pretty painting with the ugly ass Detroit D on it no one would be bitching. Let's face it. The majority of these buildings will never be bought. He is not targeting your home. You don't live there. No one does. Frankly I find it refreshing to see color in an otherwise blighted building. It shows that someone took the time to do consider the waste that we are surrounded with. It makes ME take time to consider MY surroundings. Isn't that the point of art?

**hermousefriday** · February-17-11, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by GUSHI

My dog loves to spill paint, wow he's a artist also. Looks like shit.

You think that was easy? I highly doubt it was. A lot of time and work clearly went into those images. I hear those same annoying comments all the time at the DIA: "My three year old could do that, ha-ha-ha." Little do they know..

**Downtown Lady** · February-17-11, 11:35 PM

I see the CCS contingent is joining the forum one by one.

Originally Posted by ruffsicle

Don't give me bullshit about the sanctity of sidewalks and overpasses. It's housepaint. It will wash off and fade.

It's not about the "sanctity" of sidewalks and overpasses, it is about the malicious destruction of public property. Whether you want to agree with it or not, malicious destruction of property is a crime. It's not really open for debate or interpretation.

And since when does house paint wash off?

**hermousefriday** · February-17-11, 11:48 PM

It would be nice if people could give constructive criticism without petty insults and threats. John is not Detroit's biggest threat. I think we all know that there are definitely worse illegal activities happening in some [[if not all) of these buildings. I mean people are dealing crack in them, and you're bitching about some guy taking pictures? Paint can be washed off. Maybe lets direct some of that anger towards Detroit's real criminals.

**canuck** · February-17-11, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by ruffsicle

No one is asking you to approve of this work.

So you really need some guy to splatter a building to acknowledge your surroundings?

Is that the point of art? It doesnt remotely address anything.

You want DetroitPole to come and clean up empty lots in your hood, but dont think twice about the attractiveness of housepaint on a sidewalk.

hermousefriday You think that was easy? I highly doubt it was. A lot of time and work clearly went into those images. I hear those same annoying comments all the time at the DIA: "My three year old could do that, ha-ha-ha." Little do they know..

John Kuhn is getting off kind of easy.

The work so to speak, could be done by a three year old and it might make you angry over spilled paint, but being the open-minded person you are; you would probably say, aw shucks, he didnt know what he was doing...

**canuck** · February-17-11, 11:59 PM

And John will come back and say; But its not about no paint; its the pitchers i was taken...

Same diffrenz...

**hermousefriday** · February-18-11, 12:03 AM

Hmm I would love to see a 3 year old make that kind of art.

**Richard** · February-18-11, 12:08 AM

"Let's face it. The majority of these buildings will never be bought."

Okay then where do you draw the line,I am looking at a building and it is going to cost $3,000,000 extra as a direct result of vandalism and scrappers. Yes it is only paint but that paint cost time and money to remove.

So your analyses is nobody is going to buy that building so it is okay to destroy it and deface it ?
Or in other words lets make damn sure nobody will ever be able to rebuild it cost effectively ?

When you mention Bansky you are failing to mention the court case about how it was illegally removed from the property, this whole listing has nothing to do with art or ones perception on what it is. It is about defacing property that you do not have permission to do or does not belong to you .It does not matter if the overpass is ugly ,it does matter to the whole entire tax-base that if the city or the rail owner decides now it needs to be repainted because of one person deciding it was okay to paint it how he chose to do so everybody has to pay.

Where do you draw the line? It is okay for kids to throw rocks at abandoned property windows,because they are just kids,it is okay for the scrapper to remove copper and wiring and structural support beams from these buildings, hey they are only trying to feed their family.

How do you know it was latex house paint and not oil paint which does not wash off very easy.

You have insurance on your property good for you,how are your rates ? They are determined by the cost of doing business for the insurance company and if you live in a high vandalism area you rates will be higher.You have a $0 deductible on your insurance? I had a storefront plate glass busted out by kids and rocks my deductible was $800 and the glass was $500 but sure it will be my fault because I did not have a $0 deductible because it is okay for children to be running about throwing rocks and nobody was living in the store as it was zoned retail.

I am not an art expert but I have been told when looking at a painting to open my eyes and look at the bigger picture to gain a better perspective.

**canuck** · February-18-11, 12:17 AM

Check these guys out in Montreal, they vandalize a downtown building by controlling from an ipad;

**ruffsicle** · February-18-11, 12:27 AM

I did not say for anyone to come clean up lots in my "hood." I said it's easy to talk shit about beating the shit out of a white kid in art school. Yet you don't step up and stop other petty crime. So your right where do we draw the line? Are you going to start beating the shit out of prostitutes? People who sell drugs? It's time to clean up the city right? Best get too it

**johnkuhnphoto** · February-18-11, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by East Detroit

The 63 yr old Owner of the Accounting firm at the same address you registered your websites to. Also has the same last name as you.

So, again, is it okay for us to tag that accounting firm on Telegraph if we don't like the building?

Also, how about that place on Miller Way?

sure... go for it
even though thats not what im doing... but if it floats ur boat then go for it

**ruffsicle** · February-18-11, 12:42 AM

I never said that he was not breaking the law. I actually stated that quite clearly. It is not your place to judge since I am positive that you have at some time broken the law. In my opinion this work is engaging, the legality of the circumstances in which it was created does not make it less so. Think what you want about his work. That is not my issue. My issue is the holier-than-thou attitude and the threats.

Your right where do we draw the line? How about cost? Does that matter? Of course it does. He is not walking into a structure that is my any means inhabitable. We are talking about serious structural damage. Paint on a wall can be powerwashed off. We are not talking about the replacement of materials. We are talking about time and elbow grease. Indoor latex paint on a surface that gets constant wear, and exposure to the elements will not last all that long. Look at the existing paint in these building which immediately starts to break down the moment the windows are gone. If someone was seriously interested in rehabilitating these structures a couple gallons of house paint is not going to be the straw that broke the camels back. Especially if a piece of work from said building gains notoriety

And my insurance rates didn't go up that much when I moved here, if something is to happen of course I am going to be upset but that is why I have insurance. Many [[not all) of the people who own these buildings own them to sit on them. They aren't exactly making insurance claims to better their property. If they were the property would not be in the state it is in.

**johnkuhnphoto** · February-18-11, 12:42 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPole

First of all, what the hell are you talking about?

Secondly, what gives you the qualifications to speak on the structural soundness of buildings? You're not an engineer, you're not anything but a common criminal, from the looks of things.

Regardless of the condition you deem the buildings, they're not yours to vandalize. And those overpasses look pretty structurally sound to me, those ones you defaced. Did the residents of the area ask you to do that?

What building did I buy? My fucking house. And I had to work my ass off to do it. Something you know nothing about. Too chickenshit to get a job and earn an honest living?

It's sad. I think your work has merit but you are obviously both a deeply troubled and totally insensitive human being. If you were a better person you could really be a fine artist.

were talking about buildings... not houses... but ok

from what i have read on them and have heard from things on city council.. many of them are structurally damaged.

and yes i do work. i run my own company which is mainly freelance right now. i dont have a steady job because im still in school.

**johnkuhnphoto** · February-18-11, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by East Detroit

No, actually you are far from correct. There are many active preservationists here as well as citizens of the City of Detroit doing their part.

thats why i asked people. and i think we got one response so i think my point is still valid.

**johnkuhnphoto** · February-18-11, 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by detroiturbex

John. Walk away.

I know you came here thinking you'd get support for your work; instead you've gotten kicked in the balls and you're trying to argue your way out. Arguing is not going to help, not one bit. Not when you're on the wrong side of a subject that people feel very, very passionate about. Reading this thread is like watching a traveling salesman try to win over a family of devout southern Baptists by sodomizing a horse on Dale Earnhardts grave while wearing the American flag as a cape. You won't win. You won't change any minds. You're just going to keep pissing more and more people off until something terrible happens, and then this isn't just a stupid thread on the internet anymore, its an especially topical episode of COPS.

Let this one go. Consider this matter from the point of view of the people here, no matter how wrong you think they are, sign off, cancel your account, and go your own way. Chalk this one up as a learning experience and cut your losses.

If you take just one thing away from all this, please let it be that while you're entitled to your own pursuit of happiness, it should not be at the expense of another person - or that person's home.

i see this as a win. i wanted a different opinion from people and thats what i got. im not arguing, im stating my point.