Painting Detroit

**johnkuhnphoto** · February-17-11, 02:58 AM

Originally Posted by Detroit2MeetU

Tyree Guyton called and wants his idea back.

It's just not original, it's cliche, and doesn't exhibit any talent. Do what you got to do, but I don't think the MET will be calling any time soon.

How does it resemble Tyree Guytons work?

**Gistok** · February-16-11, 07:52 PM

After the shellacing [[pun intended) that this kid got on this forum... I think that this kid may just want to get on with his exhibition... and leave it at that. On the one hand, he could generate some media interest... but if the media approached the topic from an angle of "breaking the law"... then it wouldn't be the kind of exposure to help his artistic cause., and he could get into legal hot water with the city...

One would hope he learned something from this thread, and wish him the best in the future... with an eye towards being more responsible.

**canuck** · February-16-11, 11:24 PM

I think the worst thing about that "art project", is that it screams "ordinary".
I would rather stand back in an empty warehouse and contemplate its history and details. If I come across a splattered room someone promotes with self-indulgent drivel, poorly thought out, and badly written; chances are the "vacant shell of a building" will win out.

There was one artist in particular who died at age 35 in 1978 and did some pretty interesting and potent stuff in the seventies where he would cut derelict buildings in amazing sculptural forms. And he didnt put out obscure and pathetic artist's statements to shroud the work in mystic crapola. Check out Gordon Matta Clark's work on the web. Now, he did cross the line and vandalized to some extent mostly buildings that were scheduled for demolition. But his work had the same potency that the vacant architecture has when it begins to speak to you.

http://www.tate.org.uk/research/tate...ing/attlee.htm

**johnkuhnphoto** · February-17-11, 03:09 AM

Originally Posted by canuck

I think the worst thing about that "art project", is that it screams "ordinary".
I would rather stand back in an empty warehouse and contemplate its history and details. If I come across a splattered room someone promotes with self-indulgent drivel, poorly thought out, and badly written; chances are the "vacant shell of a building" will win out.

There was one artist in particular who died at age 35 in 1978 and did some pretty interesting and potent stuff in the seventies where he would cut derelict buildings in amazing sculptural forms. And he didnt put out obscure and pathetic artist's statements to shroud the work in mystic crapola. Check out Gordon Matta Clark's work on the web. Now, he did cross the line and vandalized to some extent mostly buildings that were scheduled for demolition. But his work had the same potency that the vacant architecture has when it begins to speak to you.

http://www.tate.org.uk/research/tate...ing/attlee.htm

ill check out his work. from what i saw on a quick google search, its really sweet. i would also add someone to this by the name of Georges Rousse

**Hamtragedy** · February-17-11, 12:21 AM

I wondered who the smartass was that threw paint all over my favorite boat over there behind the Milwaukee lofts, and on the doorway and concrete on the building at Milwaukee and Russell.

WTFEver.

Eastside Al I agree with you 100%

**johnkuhnphoto** · February-17-11, 03:11 AM

Originally Posted by Hamtragedy

I wondered who the smartass was that threw paint all over my favorite boat over there behind the Milwaukee lofts, and on the doorway and concrete on the building at Milwaukee and Russell.

WTFEver.

Eastside Al I agree with you 100%

really... of all things the boat?
anyways that door was covered in graffiti

**Gistok** · February-17-11, 01:21 AM

Detroiturbex... when I saw the arched windows and the rather high up views of downtown in the background... I thought... oh God... don't tell me that's old CT!!

The mention of the snowmobiling in the city got me wondering... in the Balduck Park area I've seen tracks going across people's lawn and all... and thought WTF... who's doing this?? Time to start putting some large stones around the property... to mess up some peoples fun... and machinery...

**socks_mahoney** · February-17-11, 01:31 AM

I think this is awesome. All the buildings are clearly already beyond repair. The generation that let this all rot lost their say in what happens to it a long time ago.....

I say keep up the good work JohnKuhnPhoto and welcome to the forum.

keep putting light into the darkness.

**johnkuhnphoto** · February-17-11, 03:10 AM

Originally Posted by socks_mahoney

I think this is awesome. All the buildings are clearly already beyond repair. The generation that let this all rot lost their say in what happens to it a long time ago.....

I say keep up the good work JohnKuhnPhoto and welcome to the forum.

keep putting light into the darkness.

thank you sir

**johnkuhnphoto** · February-17-11, 04:02 AM

Here is a building that I worked on with permission. PJ's Lager House. Obviously some Detroiters approve of what I am doing, and are willing to support the project!

PJ's Lager House

**johnkuhnphoto** · February-17-11, 04:03 AM

Originally Posted by johnkuhnphoto

Here is a building that I worked on with permission. PJ's Lager House. Obviously some Detroiters approve of what I am doing, and are willing to support the project!

PJ's Lager House

By the way. The project is currently not finished due to the cold weather.

**Richard** · February-17-11, 04:42 AM

There you go that would be considered a nice project. You got the owners permission and it was done tastefully.

You cannot justify that the door was already tagged so it was okay for you to apply your own style of tagging all you were doing was to lower yourself down to the level of the original tagger.

If you use your talents on projects such as the wall you will gain much more respect and draw much more positive attention then the shock and awe and methods as you did earlier.

**johnkuhnphoto** · February-17-11, 04:47 AM

Originally Posted by Richard

There you go that would be considered a nice project. You got the owners permission and it was done tastefully.

You cannot justify that the door was already tagged so it was okay for you to apply your own style of tagging all you were doing was to lower yourself down to the level of the original tagger.

If you use your talents on projects such as the wall you will gain much more respect and draw much more positive attention then the shock and awe and methods as you did earlier.

thank you. im not justifying the door. im just stating the facts...

**Richard** · February-17-11, 05:05 AM

But you are still not understanding what everybody is upset about,the facts are somebody else applied paint on property that did not belong to them and they did not have the right to do that.

Then you did the exact same thing.Two wrongs do not make a right .

Would you be happy if somebody dumped a can of paint on your car? It would not matter if it was a rusted out piece of junk that nobody wanted.The fact is that car is your property and nobody else would have the right to do anything with it.

It is called respect.

**socks_mahoney** · February-17-11, 05:27 PM

Richard,

You left this city for Tampa. What gives you any say in what happens to it and everything you left behind?

Finders keepers.

**Richard** · February-17-11, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by socks_mahoney

Richard,

You left this city for Tampa. What gives you any say in what happens to it and everything you left behind?

Finders keepers.

Ummm no I am leaving Tampa for Detroit , and I will have a say and that finders keepers crap would not play ball in my park.

**ruffsicle** · February-17-11, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

Would you be happy if somebody dumped a can of paint on your car? It would not matter if it was a rusted out piece of junk that nobody wanted.The fact is that car is your property and nobody else would have the right to do anything with it.

It is called respect.

It's called insurance and I have it on all property that I care about

**southen** · February-17-11, 05:18 PM

as someone who has explored a lot of these places with a camera i would suggest just sticking to the photography. when i first entered the broderick tower in 2006 i saw rooms in that building that had paint splattered all over them. it wasnt art, it was a vandal who had taken wyland's left over paint and thrown it across the room and all over everything. thats the first thing i was reminded of when viewing your project. i found the painted truck interesting, but everything else is stuff ive seen by countless artists and vandals. there is nothing new here.

i can appreciate wanting to create or depict beauty in a place that many consider to be ugly or desolate. as i photographer i challenge you to do that with your lens, not by adding paint to make a statement.

as for bringing attention to these places for others, i think you are a little late to that party. detroit's ruins have been well documented and have gotten more than enough attention. i started exploring back in 2005 before things exploded when it was a small community of people who knew how to enter these places. our motto was always 'take only pictures, leave only footprints' and im proud to say that we never broke into these places and certainly werent destructive. by 2008 exploring had become so popular that i lost interest in it altogether. when suburban soccer moms are starting to get into places thats the time to get out...

oh and if you want to see how to take an abandoned factory and make it a place for art, look to the fisher body plant and the pyramid of wood blocks that were laid out. now thats creating something without being destructive, to me that was creativity at its best.

**johnkuhnphoto** · February-17-11, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by southen

as someone who has explored a lot of these places with a camera i would suggest just sticking to the photography. when i first entered the broderick tower in 2006 i saw rooms in that building that had paint splattered all over them. it wasnt art, it was a vandal who had taken wyland's left over paint and thrown it across the room and all over everything. thats the first thing i was reminded of when viewing your project. i found the painted truck interesting, but everything else is stuff ive seen by countless artists and vandals. there is nothing new here.

i can appreciate wanting to create or depict beauty in a place that many consider to be ugly or desolate. as i photographer i challenge you to do that with your lens, not by adding paint to make a statement.

as for bringing attention to these places for others, i think you are a little late to that party. detroit's ruins have been well documented and have gotten more than enough attention. i started exploring back in 2005 before things exploded when it was a small community of people who knew how to enter these places. our motto was always 'take only pictures, leave only footprints' and im proud to say that we never broke into these places and certainly werent destructive. by 2008 exploring had become so popular that i lost interest in it altogether. when suburban soccer moms are starting to get into places thats the time to get out...

oh and if you want to see how to take an abandoned factory and make it a place for art, look to the fisher body plant and the pyramid of wood blocks that were laid out. now thats creating something without being destructive, to me that was creativity at its best.

still everything you just said is illegal. plain and simple. taking pictures of abandoned buildings is extremely overdone. thats why its not exactly what im donig.

**southen** · February-18-11, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by johnkuhnphoto

still everything you just said is illegal. plain and simple. taking pictures of abandoned buildings is extremely overdone. thats why its not exactly what im donig.

i wasnt questioning the legality of what you were doing, i was questioning the artistic merit which you chose to ignore in my post.

isnt that the challenge of a good photographer? ive lost interest in these places but while i was shooting them i was doing so in new and interesting ways, challenging myself. i think the easy way out is to throw some paint down, photograph, and call it art.

**johnkuhnphoto** · February-19-11, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by southen

i wasnt questioning the legality of what you were doing, i was questioning the artistic merit which you chose to ignore in my post.

isnt that the challenge of a good photographer? ive lost interest in these places but while i was shooting them i was doing so in new and interesting ways, challenging myself. i think the easy way out is to throw some paint down, photograph, and call it art.

how did you challenge yourself?

**southen** · February-19-11, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by johnkuhnphoto

how did you challenge yourself?

you do things differently, you make sure you are thinking outside of the box. when im in a rut or finding out how to view things different i go out shooting with just one lens. often times i bust out the 50mm 1.4 and go downtown and start shooting. i cant zoom, i cant get wide, so it forces me to be creative and view things differently. limit your equipment and you will see things differently.

you can also bring new elements into the situation. i had had my fill of mcs shots and got tired of seeing other peoples photos of it. it had been done. then i shot a wedding with an incredible couple, both architects and huge supporters of the city, so we decided to get in there and see if we couldnt get some cool shots. that was a challenge for me and something new to make the place more interesting. sure people have taken models into these places, but a couple in a wedding dress and suit? i still think i was the first to do it. some examples...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/southen...7605559479721/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/southen...7605559479721/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/southen...7605559479721/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/southen...7605559479721/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/southen...7605559479721/

push yourself as a photographer. its natural and good to explore other artistic avenues, but when the combination of the two isnt original or done well it detracts from both. some of the things i do like, like the painted truck, but a lot of the splatter lacks creativity and like ive referenced, appears to be just vandalism.

thats just my take and how i would approach trying to do new things in some of these places. you can be creative and send a message without being destructive or doing the same old ruin porn that has been done.

**Det_ard** · February-17-11, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by southen

as for bringing attention to these places for others, i think you are a little late to that party. detroit's ruins have been well documented and have gotten more than enough attention. i started exploring back in 2005 before things exploded when it was a small community of people who knew how to enter these places. our motto was always 'take only pictures, leave only footprints' and im proud to say that we never broke into these places and certainly werent destructive. by 2008 exploring had become so popular that i lost interest in it altogether. when suburban soccer moms are starting to get into places thats the time to get out...

You may be betraying your age a bit, there's been a fair amount of exploring going on for years. If the web and digital photography had been mainstream in the 80's and 90's we'd have online evidence of widespread urban exploring going back before the current class of artists and photographers were born. What photos there are from back then are collecting dust in shoeboxes. Not too much new under the sun, including the new crop of creative types that think what they're doing is novel. That's the challenge today, so many artists, so little real creativity.

Not to disparage your photography, southen, it's top rate. Not always ground-breaking, but it needn't be to be excellent. On the other hand, johnkuhnphoto, when 100 artists try to be unique, what results 99 times is just dumb shit. Better to be excellent than special, unless you're that 1 in 100. And I'm sorry, but it appears you're not.

**ruffsicle** · February-17-11, 10:49 PM

I find it amusing that everyone is up in arms about entering an abandoned building and painting it, which is yes we agree illegal. These buildings are wide open for exploration. Even if you only leave footprints, that is still illegal. It doesn't make your crimes better because they were "victimless."

It is also illegal to publicly threaten someone's family and property. I would hope for your sake that nothing happens to John if something were to happen it would be very obvious who to turn too wouldn't it? Anyone can lurk on Facebook, it does not make you someone to be feared. It makes you a braying jackass, full of empty threats.

I know a local businessman who was looking to buy the Wilbur school even after John painted it. He bought prints from John because he supports the message. This man offered the city 70,000 to buy the school and not only did the city turn him down, they tore it down. At a cost well over 100,000. Evidently the city isn't able to do math. Are you focusing on bad spending? Are you marching in front of city hall?

I think we have bigger fish to fry than some kid painting buildings. I live in an area where 70% of the homes are burned out or used for drug deals. Your not patrolling the streets here. You want to beat up the rich kid from the suburbs but I don't see you knocking on doors and stopping the drug dealers. Vigilante Justice? What you wear tights and go after those who don't really pose a threat? We all live here, you come around and start picking up the empty lots full of garbage on my street then we can talk. Until then get off your soapbox.

**Gistok** · February-17-11, 05:29 PM

Southen, always glad to take you away from your busy schedule to have you back from time to time to add your perspective [[pun intended ;-)... I'm always in awe of your photography skills, and have sent many folks to your Flickr site...

...although I still get Vertigo even thinking about the image of your feet dangling from the edge of the Broderick Tower...