2011 The 20 "Most Miserable Cities" in America

**hudkina** · February-07-11, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by Fnemecek

Every community has taxes. However, if Community X is able to deliver all of the comforts of a civilized society while imposing that are below average, it becomes a more attractive option in the eyes of most people.

For the most part, the lower the taxes, the fewer the services. A low tax community may not have the best libraries, the best parks, the best schools, the best EMS, the best community programs, etc. It's all a trade off. Are you willing to pay more for a better community?

**bahbay** · February-07-11, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by hudkina

So where is the Modesto version of Royal Oak or Midtown or Birmingham or Palmer Woods or Canton or Brighton or Grosse Pointe or ... I could go on. The comparison isn't between the city of Detroit and the City of Modesto. It's a comparison of metropolitan areas. On a whole, I would say Metro Detroit is in much better shape as of now then Metro Modesto. California has extremely high unemployment, an extremely large budget problem, taxes that are already too high, and costs of living that are far too high for the average resident. Metro Detroit might have more of the lower economic extreme than Modesto, but it also has much more of the upper economic extreme. I'll take Metro Detroit over Metro Modesto any day of the week.

There _IS_NO_ "metro" Modesto! Modesto is SURROUNDED BY FARMS! It is _AG_ land. My original point...
Modesto, a 29-time Tree City USA honoree,[2] is surrounded by rich farmland, lending to a ranking for the county as 6th among all California counties in farm production.

**fryar** · February-08-11, 07:57 AM

They are misrepresenting their analysis. This is a ranking of undesirable metro areas, with a focus on some rather pedestrian factors. It's the Idiot's Guide to Getting Good Value for Money Considering What's Within Reach.

From Forbes:

We looked at the 200 largest metropolitan statistical areas in the U.S. The minimum population to be eligible is 249,000. We ranked each area on 10 factors, including unemployment over three years, tax rates [[both sales and income), commute times, violent crime and how its pro sports teams have fared over the past three years. We added two housing metrics this year: the change in median home prices over three years, and foreclosure rates in 2010, as compiled by RealtyTrac. We also considered corruption based on convictions of public officials in each region, as tracked by the Public Integrity Section of the U.S. Department of Justice. Lastly, we factored in an index put together by Portland, Ore., researcher Bert Sperling that rates weather in each metro on factors relating to temperature, precipitation and humidity.

The methodology has some positive features, I particularly like the inclusion of a metric for the integrity of political leaders. But the weather? Average commute? Ladies and gentlemen, Forbes proudly presents the Indicators of Municipal Greatness? Not precisely...

2011 The 20 Least Adequate Areas Centered on Cities in America

Originally Posted by detroitjim

No. 15 Farmington Hills, MI, et al. And oh, don't let's exclude Detroit.
No. 16 Springfield, VA, et al. And oh, don't let's exclude DC.

There, I fixed it for them. Southeast Michigan is slightly inferior to suburban DC - oh, and don't let's exclude DC.

It is not a list without value, but it is misleading and beyond ridiculous to then claim that the referenced cities are similarly miserable in any sense.

One wonders what incredibly blasé "cities" top their list as least miserable.

**East Detroit** · February-08-11, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by bahbay

There _IS_NO_ "metro" Modesto! Modesto is SURROUNDED BY FARMS!

Sounds pretty miserable to me.

**Hermod** · February-08-11, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by hudkina

For the most part, the lower the taxes, the fewer the services. A low tax community may not have the best libraries, the best parks, the best schools, the best EMS, the best community programs, etc. It's all a trade off. Are you willing to pay more for a better community?

Then there is Detroit with high taxes for few services [[unless you count supporting a gummint kleptocracy as a service).

**Hermod** · February-08-11, 08:46 AM

"We also considered corruption based on convictions of public officials in each region, as tracked by the Public Integrity Section of the U.S. Department of Justice."

No wonder Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach jumped up in the rankings.

Last year, the local prosecutors went on a binge and the county commission and school board members were suddenly going to jail for years and years of "pay for play" activities with contractors.

Both places were affected and there has been a lot of turnover.

**Detroitej72** · February-08-11, 09:18 AM

You can spin it however you want, but the fact is we have made some progress in dropping down a few notches. Image is everything and if Detroit is portrayed in a positive light, the region will benefit.

**hudkina** · February-08-11, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by bahbay

There _IS_NO_ "metro" Modesto! Modesto is SURROUNDED BY FARMS! It is _AG_ land.

Uh.. Metro Modesto consists of Stanislaus County, so yes there is a "metro" Modesto! In fact, there are dozens of communities in Metro Modesto:

Modesto - 188,856
Turlock - 55,810
Ceres -34,609
Riverbank - 15,826
Oakdale - 15,503
Patterson - 11,606

and so on...

**bahbay** · February-08-11, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by hudkina

Uh.. Metro Modesto consists of Stanislaus County, so yes there is a "metro" Modesto! In fact, there are dozens of communities in Metro Modesto:

Modesto - 188,856
Turlock - 55,810
Ceres -34,609
Riverbank - 15,826
Oakdale - 15,503
Patterson - 11,606

and so on...

Oakdale pop. 15.5k and _17 miles_ away? - Patterson pop 11.6k and _17 miles_ in the opposite direction? - Turlock _15 miles away_? And _all of these seperated from Modesto by miles of orchards and cropland... Look at the total population of all of these towns! _322,210 !!_ No Industry but agriculture. No tech. Sheesh!

When I think of a metro area, it is usually in terms of continuous communities either abutting each other or in close proximity, not consisting of those 35 miles apart and seperated by vast open agricultural expanses.

Good luck and best wishes

**MikeM** · February-08-11, 06:58 PM

http://www.detnews.com/article/20110...422/1409/metro

**hudkina** · February-08-11, 11:26 PM

In the USA metro areas are defined by county boundaries. In the case of Modesto, the MSA consists of everything within Stanislaus County. When magazines do these little comparisons they often base their "city" data on these census-designated metro areas.

**Hermod** · February-09-11, 05:09 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

You can spin it however you want, but the fact is we have made some progress in dropping down a few notches. Image is everything and if Detroit is portrayed in a positive light, the region will benefit.

Did Detroit make progress or did the other places decline?

**DetroitPlanner** · February-09-11, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by Hermod

Did Detroit make progress or did the other places decline?

Yes to both. Michigan's unemployment is dropping at a faster rate than other states thanks to an increase in automobile sales and a realization that we have to start changing our overall business strategies. Some places like CA or FL have never been hit hard by recession before and its taking them a bit longer to figure things out. I have no explaination for Chicago's quick and relatively high entry into the list other than there are some indicators that retail sales in the area are falling and that crime is rising.

**Detroitej72** · February-09-11, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by Hermod

Did Detroit make progress or did the other places decline?

Does it matter? One could argue that other cities rose in status simply because Detroit declined so much. Much of what determines a regions image is the reputation.

Here is an example: A woman I know once told me she will never go downtown again because the last time she was there, a guy almost robbed her. When pressed for the details, she said her and a friend were walking around Greektown, and some homeless guy asked them for some spare change. She said they ran for their lives to the parking structure and never looked back.

I can almost guarantee that had that same scenario happened in say, Birmingham, she wouldn't have repeated the story as if she'd almost been robbed. She assumed because she was in Detroit, all the people must be bad, evil criminals. Thus, she witnessed the image that has been portrayed by countless folks that Detroit is unsafe even though she was never in any harm.

**bahbay** · February-09-11, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by hudkina

In the USA metro areas are defined by county boundaries. In the case of Modesto, the MSA consists of everything within Stanislaus County. When magazines do these little comparisons they often base their "city" data on these census-designated metro areas.

hudkina please note this definition of MSAs via Wikipedia:

In the United States a metropolitan statistical area refers to a geographical region with a relatively high population density at its core and close economic ties throughout the area. Such regions are not legally incorporated as a city or town would be, nor are they legal administrative divisions like ** **counties** ** or sovereign entitites like states. As such the precise definition of any given metropolitan area can vary with the source. A typical metropolitan area is centered around a single large city that wields substantial influence over the region [[e.g. Chicagoland). However, some metropolitan areas contain more than one large city with no single municipality holding a dominant position [[e.g. Minneapolis – Saint Paul).

**hudkina** · February-09-11, 11:04 AM

Yes, it's saying that metropolitan areas are for statistical purposes only and have none of the jurisdictional powers provided to cities or counties. However, Metropolitan Statistical Areas, as defined by the the Census Bureau, use counties as the building blocks. For example, "Metro Detroit" consists of Wayne, Oakland, Macomb, St. Clair, Livingston, and Lapeer counties. "Metro Modesto" consists of Stanislaus County.

Trust me, I know ALL there is to know about metropolitan areas in the U.S.

**fryar** · February-09-11, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by bahbay

Oakdale pop. 15.5k and _17 miles_ away? - Patterson pop 11.6k and _17 miles_ in the opposite direction? - Turlock _15 miles away_? And _all of these seperated from Modesto by miles of orchards and cropland... Look at the total population of all of these towns! _322,210 !!_ No Industry but agriculture. No tech. Sheesh!

When I think of a metro area, it is usually in terms of continuous communities either abutting each other or in close proximity, not consisting of those 35 miles apart and seperated by vast open agricultural expanses.

Good luck and best wishes

Yes, one might say there's not much metro there to begin with.