Raise Your Hand if You're Sick and Tired of RUIN PORN

[BrushStart]

Okay, I get it, we've got abandoned buildings, many are historical and have neat architecture, but enough is enough. If I get one more email or FB post linking me to a blog, photo-documentary, flickr account, or some other online picture-sharing website, I am going to scream.

It was interesting at first, but now it's just cliche. Why do people feel the need to travel to Detroit, break into derelict buildings, and take pictures of scraps of paper, old furniture, piles of wood, and other worthless garbage from 50 years ago? Try looking in your grandmother's basement and you're likely to find equally interesting junk.

I can understand why people are fascinated with Detroit and its ruins, but seriously, is every photographer on a quest to make a coffee table book of Detroit's crumbling buildings? Likewise, is every journalist on a quest to inform the world about Detroit's blight? It's not like there was some major calamity here. People just moved out past 8 Mile and built new shit. That's it... They left. It rotted. End of story.

There are so many more interesting things to photograph in Detroit these days. How about taking some pictures of a building being rehabbed? That takes true imagination. And, what's the deal with these people from Europe coming here? You live on a continent with ruins that date back to before the time of Christ! Photograph that stuff. Go take a picture of Pompeii, find King Arthur's castle, have you seen Chernobyl?

The reason I'm really tired of all the ruin porn is because it only captures one side of Detroit. Michigan Central Station is a single reflection of Detroit. Another reflection would be the Book Cadillac, the Fort Shelby, or the thousands of homes and buildings that are not abandoned, have never been abandoned, or have recently been restored. Yet, nobody seems interested in that stuff. How many photographers will be storming the doors of Broderick Tower once its renovated to its magnificent beauty? Don't they all say, "What a shame, it must'a been gorgeous back in the day" as they flicker away? Well, soon it will be, but then they won't care anymore.

Also, don't tell me that you are recording the history of Detroit. That history has been recorded by at least a hundred people already. You are not an "archaeologist." At best, you are a ruin pornographer, and, no, I will not be buying your coffee table book.

[mwilbert]

I don't care. It is certainly cliche at this point, but how many pictures have published [[much less taken) of the Statue of Liberty? If the photographer is really talented, it may be interesting, but if it just a straight-up shot of the MCS, it is almost certainly going to be dull.

People are interested in what they are interested in. I think way too much time is spent watching college football, but I don't expect to change anyone's behavior by mentioning it.

[BrushStart]

No offense, but I think this is a little different than college football.

[Lowell]

The fact that you go to great length in your outrage is indicative passions and emotion that the condition of Detroit arouses. These are immense in-your-face manifestations of failure and malaise. There is no place on earth that compares to what is visible here. The ruins are jaw-droppingly amazing and loaded with meaning, contradiction and, yes, potential.

When I began my documentation in the early 90's the attitude was, "I don't want to talk about or see it." In a sense they were invisible and contemptible, kind of like the homeless. As I wrote on the opening page of the Fabulous Ruins of Detroit, it was "a vast and history laden ruin site passing unnoticed, even despised, into oblivion."

Not now. Attention and interest had been building but the world economic collapse, the bankruptcy of mighty GM formed a turning point. It made of people realize that they all live in Detroit or that they might.

[BrushStart]

The fact that you go to great length in your outrage is indicative passions and emotion that the condition of Detroit arouses. These are immense in-your-face manifestations of failure and malaise. There is no place on earth that compares to what is visible here. The ruins are jaw-droppingly amazing and loaded with meaning, contradiction and, yes, potential.

When I began my documentation in the early 90's the attitude was, "I don't want to talk about or see it." In a sense they were invisible and contemptible, kind of like the homeless. As I wrote on the opening page of the Fabulous Ruins of Detroit, it was "a vast and history laden ruin site passing unnoticed, even despised, into oblivion."

Not now. Attention and interest had been building but the world economic collapse, the bankruptcy of mighty GM formed a turning point. It made of people realize that they all live in Detroit or that they might.

Lowell, let me just say that I really respect what you've done. And, I agree that my response is very much an emotional reaction. It finally just boiled over this evening when a friend emailed me one of those "Hey have you seen this thing about Detroit" articles. I seem to get one of those once a week because in my circle of friends, I am "Mr. Detroit" because I live in the city.

One of the above posters said that there is a difference between documentation and exploitation. I really agree with that. Some people are simply masquerading as people who care, pretending to record Detroit's history, generate awareness, create constructive discussion, etc. but are really just thinly veiled profiteers or adventurists who enjoy a good tragedy.

I can appreciate a photographer or a journalist who is legitimately interested in Detroit, someone who covers the whole story. Why would you photograph a blighted building, but fail to shoot the one right across the street that has been fully restored? It's because they only care about the demise. They know that pictures of the renovated Fort Shelby won't draw 200 hits a day to their blog.

The end result is, Detroit gets pictured for all the wrong reasons. I hate reading comments to articles about Detroit's blight and people respond with things like "It's such a shame, but I wouldn't set foot in Detroit these days." Detroit's image has been destroyed by the media and in popular culture, and while some of this city's poor reputation is well-deserved, it is not the complete picture. I am so thankful for sites like this one, Model D, and others that promote the positive activities in the city. You don't need to be a complete optimist either, lord knows I'm not, but just a fair representation every once in a while would be nice.

[1KielsonDrive]

Detroit is the Grand Canyon of ruins.

[lilpup]

There's a difference between documenting ruins and exploiting them...many projects featured elsewhere of late seem very exploitative.

[Jared9903]

I will definitely be going into Broderick Tower when it is refurbished to take pictures. But that is just me. I love the history of the buildings.

[Zacha341]

Point well stated.......

There's a difference between documenting ruins and exploiting them...many projects featured elsewhere of late seem very exploitative.

[muskie1]

Point well stated.......

I agrree. When I see a picture of just another empty building I don't pay much attention to it. The same pic with a hist0ry of the place and who or what was there, and when it went empty tells alot.

[DetroitDad]

Lights attract moths.

[Lowell]

I can appreciate a photographer or a journalist who is legitimately interested in Detroit, someone who covers the whole story. Why would you photograph a blighted building, but fail to shoot the one right across the street that has been fully restored? It's because they only care about the demise. They know that pictures of the renovated Fort Shelby won't draw 200 hits a day to their blog.

Any big story will have many responses, some thoughtful, some ridiculous and some will hyperventilate but mostly it is genuinely naive interest and fascination. The net result is that the amid all the chatter the overall level of conversation about our condition has risen greatly. The ruins of Detroit were always exceptional but were treated like an embarrassment to be avoided in conversation.

I was approached by a man when I was photographing an abandoned apartment building on the westside.

"Why do you want to photograph a nasty old building like that," he challenged.

"Look at it," I said, "It's beautiful. Nothing like it will ever be built again."

He paused for a while, looked at it, and said in a hand-on-the-chin thoughtful pose, "You're right somebody ought to do something with it."

Music to my ears. BTW someone rehabbed it a couple of years later.

[Magnatomicflux]

.

I was approached by a man when I was photographing an abandoned apartment building on the westside.

"Why do you want to photograph a nasty old building like that," he challenged.

"Look at it," I said, "It's beautiful. Nothing like it will ever be built again."

He paused for a while, looked at it and said in a hand-on-the-chin thoughtful pose, "You're right somebody ought to do something with it."

Music to my ears. BTW someone rehabbed it a couple of years later.

Perfect! I see your frustration too, BrushStart. But I suppose if there is anything that can come of these people that are exploiting her, and exposing her bones to the world on the net, it's that it makes people see the potential of what's just waiting to be rehabbed. And those with the funds to do so just might. It might very well be one of those folks from Europe who actually understands built history and the beauty of these buildings who gets the job done.

[fryar]

If I get one more email or FB post linking me to a blog, photo-documentary, flickr account, or some other online picture-sharing website, I am going to scream.

That, I can totally understand. I never get anything like that. Sounds like it would be really annoying, though.

The closest I have come over the last year plus was a link from my one friend who is supportive of my wanting to move to Detroit, and that was to a blog post asserting that there are so too supermarkets in Detroit. With all the metro Detroiters I showed my pictures of the Michigan Theater to in the Detroit office, I never had anyone point out to me that that was old hat, or had so been done, or whatever. So either these people were polite and restrained, or they're also not exactly drowning in ruin porn.

For whatever reason, you've got a ruin porn bulls-eye on your back.

[wolverine]

I've noticed quite a bit of criticism on this, but something to point out here is that it will always remain a subject of interest to a particular group of people. You could substitute your title with just about anything. If you are tired of it, just don't look at it.

Why do people feel the need to travel to Detroit, break into derelict buildings, and take pictures of scraps of paper, old furniture, piles of wood, and other worthless garbage from 50 years ago?

Because it's a hobby or interest.

Why do people climb mountains, it's dangerous
Why do people go skiing, it's cold outside.
Why do people people like modern art?
Why do people like hip-hop music?
Why do people ride bicycles?

By criticizing other people's tastes or interest, you only open up criticism upon yourself. While I can agree the imagery may be damaging to Detroit's reputation, it is what it is, and certainly not the one single piece of exposure holding the city back.

I personally find the material interesting. I love architecture and historic ruins, but there's something more intriguing about Detroit's vacant structures since it's close to home, and has changed so dramatically in our lifetime. But that's just me....

If you find it so offensive, why not start up your own website showing the good of the city. Prove to us that the public's interest can be directed elsewhere. If it's cliche, make something unique or unexpected. On my explorations of Detroit over the years, I know there is plenty of good to show, plus you'll get to know your city better.

[fryar]

From afar, through the prism of this board [[how's that for a grain of salt?), it sounds like it is just as important that there be a bunch of people taking baby steps-to-major leaps on the little-guy scale. One Detroit emigré to Cleveland may buy and rehab an entire high-rise to great effect, but you also need a bunch of little people converting abandoned firehouses to art galleries, and such. The magic's in the aggregate of all those individual efforts.

Tiring of ruin porn is understandable. I also wouldn't want to be "surrounded" by it.

But there is a story about abandonment that is worth telling where certain ruin porn images are worth a thousand words. With some context, the school book depository [[Detroit, not Dallas, people, stay on point), for example. If it remains standing and Matty has a change of heart [[har har), they should give tours. Tours, and explanatory plaques. A warning to the world, you know.

Worth telling once. And well.

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

30 years ago, about the length of a generation... a strange thing started to happen in my City of Detroit, its buildings of industry, its homes and apartment buildings began to be abandoned in disturbingly high numbers and not just temporarily abandoned but permanently. They were then dissected for their scrap and crumbled and burned several times over. It was amazingly sad to me to watch this thing happen. 20 years ago I drove around the city with a 35mm camera with black and white film and took some pictures of what I considered beautiful architecture [[Brush Park, the Vanity Ballroom, turn of the century homes and Craftsman beauties. For me this was my form of art that I shared with my family and friends [[fourth generation Detroiters). Each time I took those photos I knew there was a history behind each structure, a family raised, a career of labor and production, etc. I never thought I would ever hear the term Ruin Porn, but whatever you want to call it, it is the continued historical documentation of the de-evolution of a city. And like it or not a human curiosity.

[fryar]

Let's not Facebook Brushstart about it [[nyuck, nyuck, sorry Brushstart), but if you still have those, I'd love to see them. Kind of like a before and after thing, you know? A part of that story worth telling probably is that the response that asserted itself seems to have been a sort of shrugging of the shoulders.

Also, on the off-chance that anybody is a hobby pilot and is looking to burn some fuel, I would love to see an update on Lowell's shots from that 1992 Detroit flyover of his [[here) that I am so fond of referencing, particularly that shot of the RenCen parking lot [[okay, and RenCen).

[BrushStart]

Let's not Facebook Brushstart about it [[nyuck, nyuck, sorry Brushstart), but if you still have those, I'd love to see them. Kind of like a before and after thing, you know? A part of that story worth telling probably is that the response that asserted itself seems to have been a sort of shrugging of the shoulders.

This is the one that somebody emailed me yesterday that pushed me over the edge: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kisa-l...?ref=fb&src=sp

I especially enjoyed this part:

Concerning access, we usually wait for the door to be opened by some scavenger... admits Marchand, wistfully adding that "in Detroit it was just a matter of time [before these buildings disappeared]... Even when Detroit tries to secure them, it will not stay that way for very long."

I am not going to post the other articles people have sent me, [[a) because I didn't save the links, and [[b) because I'd be promoting what I'm sick and tired of seeing and reading about. I will say that the worst was when TIME did that documentary [[or whatever it was) featuring a bunch of Detroit's ruins, I got like three messages about that one from various people.

Overall, I'm just upset about the intent of some of these more recent journalists and photographers. Are they just jumping on the "let's photograph and write about these same 5 abandoned buildings in Detroit" bandwagon, or are they actually creating something of artistic or educational value?

[jackie5275]

This is the one that somebody emailed me yesterday that pushed me over the edge: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kisa-l...?ref=fb&src=sp

Overall, I'm just upset about the intent of some of these more recent journalists and photographers. Are they just jumping on the "let's photograph and write about these same 5 abandoned buildings in Detroit" bandwagon, or are they actually creating something of artistic or educational value?

I had the same item posted to me by a Facebook friend with a small picture of Old Slumpy. In her post, she lamented the demise of some of these buildings & questioned why rich people couldn't buy them all, renovate them, & sell them to people who she thinks will maintain them properly. She was unaware that Old Slumpy had been demolished.

I partially agree with your being upset of the recent influx of journalist & photographers. Yes, I think there are a certain amount of them who are just "jumping on the bandwagon". I also think a certain amount of them are creating something of value. What the percentage is between the two types is something that I can't readily figure out. However, I have to believe that all them, whatever their motivation, are here spending some money on lodging, food, transporatation, etc. while they're here. So in that respect it's a good thing.

[erikd]

I partially agree with your being upset of the recent influx of journalist & photographers. Yes, I think there are a certain amount of them who are just "jumping on the bandwagon". I also think a certain amount of them are creating something of value. What the percentage is between the two types is something that I can't readily figure out. However, I have to believe that all them, whatever their motivation, are here spending some money on lodging, food, transporatation, etc. while they're here. So in that respect it's a good thing.

I don't think that people realize the damage caused by ruin porn, especially when it is promoted in the national media.

The obsession with showcasing vacant buildings in Detroit, which is extremely biased and almost never presented in proper context, has little or nothing to do with providing insight or promoting educated discussion, but rather promoting shocking images to sell books, attract television viewers, and increase web traffic.

This negative media focus is very humiliating for city leaders, and it puts great pressure on them to take immediate drastic actions [[usually demolition), even if it is detrimental in the long run.

I explained the absolute failure of promoting speculative demolition in the Cass Tech thread:

"Many people, including many government leaders, agree with your concept of speculative demolition.

It seems to make sense in theory... if a building has been vacant for more than a few years, it has proven to be a blighted eyesore beyond repair, and should be demolished to make the site more attractive for redevelopment.

The only problem with the theory of speculative demolition as a tool to promote development in downtown Detroit is that it has proven to be an absolute, complete, unequivocal failure.

I can not think of one example over the last 15 years in downtown Detroit where speculative demolition has resulted in redevelopment of the site. The Tuller, the Statler, the Hudsons building, the Lafayette, the Madison Lenox, etc. Not a SINGLE ONE of these sites has been redeveloped.

Compare the absolute failure of speculative demolition to the astounding success of renovating downtown buildings that sat vacant and run down for decades... The Book Cadillac was a vacant building for 25 years. The Fort Shelby was vacant for over 30 years. Think about the Kales building, the Iodent building, the five vacant buildings remodeled into Merchants Row, the three vacant buildings remodeled into the Lofts at Woodward, the Cliff Bells building, the Lafer building, the Hartz building, the Eureka building, the Madison building. The David Broderick tower is currently getting a complete renovation after decades of sitting mostly vacant.

Contrary to popular opinion, the vacant "eyesore" buildings in downtown Detroit are not liabilities preventing the city from attracting investment and development. In fact, the old vacant "eyesore" buildings are the most attractive sites to developers investing in the city.

The facts are blatantly obvious. Speculative demolition in downtown Detroit leads to absolute failure, and patiently waiting for redevelopment of long vacant buildings is a proven path for success."

[MSUguy]

This is the one that somebody emailed me yesterday that pushed me over the edge: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kisa-l...?ref=fb&src=sp

I especially enjoyed this part:


I am not going to post the other articles people have sent me, [[a) because I didn't save the links, and [[b) because I'd be promoting what I'm sick and tired of seeing and reading about. I will say that the worst was when TIME did that documentary [[or whatever it was) featuring a bunch of Detroit's ruins, I got like three messages about that one from various people.

Overall, I'm just upset about the intent of some of these more recent journalists and photographers. Are they just jumping on the "let's photograph and write about these same 5 abandoned buildings in Detroit" bandwagon, or are they actually creating something of artistic or educational value?

Count me amoung that are tired and the huffpo link is the exact thing I dislike. What is the value of this book? It seems to tell no story other than to portray the city as some Mad Max universe. Too many of these photographers seem be trying out do each other in proving how artsy/esoteric they are by coming here taking pictures of abdanboned buildings. I don't want reality swept under the rug the ruins exsist, they are fascinating and beautiful; they're the reason that many of us are here in the first place. But there needs to be context, a story for these pictures to truly have value.

[East Detroit]

Only we are allowed to use the r-word; not people from outside Metro Detroit.

[gumby]

No offense but "ruin porn" was kind of the original reason for this website and is what drew me and I am sure others here. When I first came here back in '98 I was looking for information on "that big abandoned building" that I always saw when going to my 1 or 2 Tiger games each year. When I got here I started looking over all of Lowell's images of beautiful, although marred architecture that I fell in love with the city of Detroit. I wanted to learn more about its history and longed for the day that these glorious structures would once again be brought to life. Because of this I also became interested in my own city, Flint. I had never even really came to Flint before I started back to college in '02 but now I live near downtown and constantly annoy my friends with information about the buildings and my hopes for future uses of them. I have seen many successes and many failures over the past decade but I can honestly say that if it wasn't for the "ruin porn" I never would have even known.

[Django]

When I think of porn in a bad way I think of wives and girlfriends being insecure.

I dont have a problem with those sexy abandoned building pics. I keep a stash of them under my mattress.