Mopeds in Detroit?

[detroittrader]

I had a 2003 Vespa ET4 that I drove around last summer. I took it downtown from Oak Park a couple times and had a blast. Parking is easy because you can angle park it anywhere like a motorcycle, that being said, I never left it out of my sight. The criminal element can't just push it away if it's locked, but at 300lbs a couple strong men could just load it into a truck and be gone .

Anyhoot, I sold it in August to a girl from Ann Arbor so I can by this beauty, a 1966 Honda 125cc:

[buzzman0077]

Had a Kymco 250cc that did very well on highways and got about seventy mpg. Our current 125cc can manage highway speeds but gets blown around too much. Never feel safe at the top end of it's speed, but it gets darn close to 100mpg tooling around town.

[Planner3357]

I have a late 70's Fantic Concord moped that my grandfather used to ride to the "Glass House" in Dearborn where he was an engineer. I live downtown and need to have it fixed. Would be great to ride it to work, highland park.

But it is old school, pedals and chrome fenders and all.

[DetroitScooter]

I commute downtown ever day that I can on one of my scoots [[range from 150 to 220 ccs). If this snow ever stops, I'll try a ride downtown on my new '78 Puch, and yes, it's a little slow for the fast lane of Woodward, but it'll do alright in the right lane or in the neighborhoods. We also have a pretty active vintage scooter club in the Ferndale/Royal Oak/Berkley area, the Rovers. We have Canadian members too, so we are one of the very few international scooter clubs in the U.S. You will see us downtown a lot in the warmer months.

I write up my tales on my Detroit Scooter blog on the Examiner, in case you are interested.

And yes, we will support the hell out of mid town scooter/moped shop. Please get them in touch with me and I'll write up/talk up their efforts!

[wheelhorse2347]

Hello all!

I happen to be close to those who have this idea/dream. I am 100% in support for the following reasons.

A: I LOVE riding Detroit streets. Apart from the pot holes, and occasional broken glass [[things you find everywhere in other cities too) the roads are wide open, even during "Rush Hour". I like the maneuvering room.

B: In the city, you can mostly keep up with traffic unless you're on the freeway, which you wouldn't do on a ped anyway. I havn't found many places with limits above 35.

C: Those with lower incomes, including students/newer residents could greatly benefit from having a low cost alternative to driving cars next to bicycling. You can park them anywhere, and a big U lock is all you need to keep it pretty safe.

Right now, they're in the logistical phase of planning, but I think it would be highly beneficial to have a rallying point for the Detroit two wheeled crowd.

To those of you who DO ride in the summer, feel free to shoot me a line, or better yet I can make a thread for it. I am always looking for riding friends.

Also, have any of you heard of the 'Thunderdrome'?

[wheelhorse2347]

To planner3357: PM me if you're interested in having the moped repaired. I'm pretty good with a wrench.

[skyl4rk]

I have built an electric bike with a hubmotor and 48 Volt 12 amp hour lead acid battery pack. The bike is a Giant Sedona with front shocks. I have had it for about 4 or 5 years now. I have also built a few 50cc gas motor bikes both 2 cycle and 4 cycle.

I have to say that after spending lots of money on these bikes, I have come to the conclusion that a pedal bike can do pretty much the same thing [[although a bit slower), weigh less, handle better, are better for your health and are much cheaper. However, a 48V 48 amp hour lithium battery pack would be pretty awesome. But then you have an investment of maybe $500 in the motor, close to $1000 in the battery and whatever the bike cost you. For that money, I'd rather have a moped or light motorcycle.

For my money, the ideal urban transportation is the Honda C70 aka Cub. A Puch 50 is not bad either.

[milesdriven]

This could work well if done properly. Tags for a moped run $15 for three years, and you don't need to carry insurance. Michigan law requires mopeds to be under 50cc, and not travel over 30mph on level surfaces. Kits are available to make them go much faster, which would make them more viable as everyday transportation. Having a moped which can go 50mph and doesn't require insurance seems like it would be a good seller, as long as he informed the customers that they are supposed to plate it as a motorcycle after modification, although nobody would.

[Huggybear]

Mopeds and little scooters aren't designed for freeway travel. But the theory that you need a "stupid crotch rocket" to commute is bunk, also. I think the ideal commuter bike would be something between 250 and 400 cc. They'll travel freeway speeds and still get you good gas milage.

True. It's either 50cc [[ahem... 49) or 250cc. In a flat place like Detroit, the monkey in the middle is the 125-150cc scooter, which has the disadvantages of requiring motorcycle licensure, insurance, and a helmet without being able to hit the freeway [[safely). Though a 250cc Piaggio Vespa GT is more of a lifestyle statement due to its massive cost.

With a 125-150cc, you could compete better than a 50cc on Woodward or Jefferson, but those streets are arguably suicidal for any two-wheeled vehicle [[Lafayette and Brush are good bypasses for small bikes). People do use 125s-150s in places like San Francisco, but you need a lot more power to start up hills.

Gas mileage is one thing but overall efficiency is something to look at. A 300 lb scooter that gets 70-80 mpg [[making 12 hp) is a lot less efficient than a 3,400 lb car making 200+ hp and getting 25 mpg city.

[douglasm]

In a way yes, but we're talking about single person commuter vheicles here, and a Honda 250 Rebel that gets 60 mpg in town is a lot more efficent than a 200 hp car that gets 25. The trick is buying a rig that fits your needs. If you're using it to go to the corner market a 50cc scooter would be fine. If you're using it to commute from Ferndale to Downtown, you need more guts than that. Figure out what you are resonably expecting from your bike then go from there.....

[wheelhorse2347]

And a well tuned, 100lb 50 cc cycle, getting 100-125mpg is more efficient than all. The point however, is how silly it is to get 25 mpg in a car, have to find parking, driving five miles max to get to work or school every day [[and not having as much fun while doing it). During the warm months especially I feel there will be interest in them. As far as the people opening the shop, I know the mechanics personally [[very apt/certified) and they plan on working on motorcycles too. It's unlikely they will be selling used bikes however, opting for restorations on older peds.

And, as a point of interest, mopeds and scooters are not the same thing. Mopeds look like bikes, and have pedals. Scooters have small wheels, and are step through [[with no pedals). The state licenses them both as "mopeds" if they're under 50cc.

I have found the DMV and the police in general don't know ANYTHING about moped law. I have a 150 cc 1964 Vespa licensed as a 'Moped' because when it was inspected they saw it was a 'scooter' and thought moped. It works out well for me, but I've owned about 6 bikes, and they very RARELY check to see if you're actually a ped [[not that I am endorsing this).

I also have a Suzuki M12 [[1966) which IS a 50cc bike, but has no pedals. It's actually TECHNICALLY a small motorcycle. It cruises around 45 however, and that's on 50cc. MOPED STICKER. God bless the dmv.

[Huggybear]

Wheelhorse - not to knock bikes - my point is that as a use of gasoline, motorcycles are not as efficient in terms of maximum potential energy efficiency as cars. I am no stranger to riding to work.

And as cool as I think it would be to have a repair facility nearby [[I think I know who you are talking about - they have been studying this possibility for several years), I know from experience that riding is more than "hop on, hop off":

1. Wear a different set of clothes and shoes [[long sleeves and rubber soles)
2. Get your helmet out [[as well as your glasses/goggles)
3. Unchain the bike
4. Go where you are going [[the fun part)
5. Chain it back up
6. Stow everything [[including the one shopping bag safe maximum)
7. Fix your hair [[unless you're bald)
8. Repeat 2-3 when you leave

...all at the same time you are paying car insurance on your other vehicle, since you can't ride a motorcycle for at least 1/3 of the year [[or when it is raining). And during the winter, you have to plug your bike into a battery charger or freeze your arse off running it every week or two. Fun during the warm, dry months? Hell yes. But practicality is not something I would take away from it. Modern small bikes are also pretty expensive.

And a well tuned, 100lb 50 cc cycle, getting 100-125mpg is more efficient than all. The point however, is how silly it is to get 25 mpg in a car, have to find parking, driving five miles max to get to work or school every day [[and not having as much fun while doing it). During the warm months especially I feel there will be interest in them. As far as the people opening the shop, I know the mechanics personally [[very apt/certified) and they plan on working on motorcycles too. It's unlikely they will be selling used bikes however, opting for restorations on older peds.

And, as a point of interest, mopeds and scooters are not the same thing. Mopeds look like bikes, and have pedals. Scooters have small wheels, and are step through [[with no pedals). The state licenses them both as "mopeds" if they're under 50cc.

I have found the DMV and the police in general don't know ANYTHING about moped law. I have a 150 cc 1964 Vespa licensed as a 'Moped' because when it was inspected they saw it was a 'scooter' and thought moped. It works out well for me, but I've owned about 6 bikes, and they very RARELY check to see if you're actually a ped [[not that I am endorsing this).

I also have a Suzuki M12 [[1966) which IS a 50cc bike, but has no pedals. It's actually TECHNICALLY a small motorcycle. It cruises around 45 however, and that's on 50cc. MOPED STICKER. God bless the dmv.

[douglasm]

Your M12 looks a lot like the 1985 Suzuki K50 my wife and I started out on. Out here they're licensed as mopeds too, so you don't need an endorcement on your license.

As to Huggybear's comments, I road to work in a suit and tie for 25+ years with no problems. It took 15 seconds to remove my helmet, another 20 to hang up my coat and probably 30 to comb out my hair. It's a non issue.

[night-timer]

Back in the early 80's, Suzuki made a "full sized" 50cc motorcycle that was licensed as a moped out here. The thing would do about 50, got 90 mpg, and was the ideal urban vheicle. My wife and I rode ours nearly everywhere. I've graduated to a CB900C and my wife has a 250 Rebel [[wish Honda still made the 400cc version), but out here we're seeing a lot of Kymco scooters and small bikes.

http://www.kymco.com/

Due to some health issues over the past couple of years, the 900 has gotten a little big [[top heavy) for me, and there's a good chance I'll get a scooter next year, that is if you can call a Suzuki Burgman 400 a "scooter".

http://moto.suzuki.ca/Product%20Line...egory=scooters

I like the idea of a scooter my wife and I can double up on that has enough luggage space for an overnighter.

I have a Suzuki Burgman 650, but I'm not in Detroit. If you're willing to store the bike during the winter and the snow and replace the dead battery once the bikes' been idle for twelve weeks, you'll be happy. Park them anywhere ) if it's safe), full tank of petrol for cheap [[although big Burgmans cost more), parking station levies are minimal or free compared to cars, and stacks of storage space under the seat and room fore a second person. The Burgman 650 is pretty big for a step-through design.

[Fury13]

All this talk about scooters and mopeds is un-American. This is Detroit. We don't believe in alternative forms of transportation here! Buy a car!

[Toolbox]

All this talk about scooters and mopeds is un-American. This is Detroit. We don't believe in alternative forms of transportation here! Buy a car!

OR an overpriced poorly performing Hardly Davidson.

[Bigb23]

Still looking for a advocate for medium range electrics at a nice price. My last electric came from China by way of California. I hope they can do a better job by now.

[FlyingJ]

All this talk about scooters and mopeds is un-American. This is Detroit. We don't believe in alternative forms of transportation here! Buy a car!

Nice troll, but Whizzers were made in Pontiac-no, it ain't the fake thing that lets druggies pee can urine; http://motorbicycling.com/f8/history-whizzer-9-2.html

I've had 17 scooters & a 3-wheeler over the years. Local mods have dug up the holy grail of rare scooters; SS90's & even 50's outta Windsor & ONT God Bless the Jedi Knighhts but nevermind the thieves riding in a No-Fault State's a tough one

L.A. probably can lay claim to birthplace ofd the scooter with the [[beautiful) Salsburys & Powells [[the former is still around makin' golfcarts). Cushman of Omaha was the most prominent[[nice Eagle, btw). Their manufacturer of "Airbornes" that were thrown over Europe in WW2 so paratroopers could get around was the direct inspiration for the Vespa. The inspiration for the Cushman Eagle, the Mustang[[way before Ford) of Glendale are being re-popped by an outfit here in La Verne; http://www.californiascooterco.com/ Oh, and the Petersen Auto Museumhttp://www.petersen.org/default.cfm?docid=1082 is honoring LA's ties to the scooter w/a new exhibit;

[Bigb23]

I've always been an advocate of the coming electric revolution - but this is REALLY on my want list !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2DgwY5QQBk

This kid has the right idea.

[Hypestyles]

how much does a moped cost?

[downtown_racine]

A brand new Chinese scooter can be had for about $1000 and will probably last ten years. A quality Honda will probably be about $2000 and last 30 years and be much more reliable.
Mostly scooters nowemdays I believe, mopeds have pedals that you can propel or start the machine with.

[douglasm]

Moped has become as much a legal description as anything. By Michigan law, a "moped" is any 2 or 3 wheeled vheicle with an engine 50cc or smaller, not generating more than 2 bhp, and have a top speed on the level of no more than 30 mph. It's curious to me that Michigan law requires an automatic transmission [[that is, no manual gear shifting).

I wonder if you can even buy a VeloSolex in the states anymore......

[downtown_racine]

You can get anything if you got enough money, I believe the china girl motor kits are kind of popular.
Mine is on a 1969 Schwinn Racer. I have about $200 into the thing and its been alot of fun. I really want any Japanese scooter instead.

[detr0itkid]

Every time I google my shop "Detroit Moped Works" this old thread shows up. I figured that I'd update The forum. "Motor City Mopeds" was the company originally in question in 2011 when this thread was started. Things did not work out for them [[Although they both still work on and ride mopeds in the city). I have started a new company and we are doing pretty well so far. Please like our Facebook Page , stop by in person, and/or check out our vintage peds for sale. Thanks!