Anyone notice? It's feeling pretty old around here...

[EastsideQT]

That's interesting..

Well, I just sort of surprised myself. As it turns out, Michigan ranks 30/50 for states with the oldest population. As of 2003, only 12.3% of Michigan's population was over 65. Florida ranked #1 with 17.6% of its population older than 65. The youngest state is Alaska, with a minuscule 5.7% of its population over 65. So, maybe I'm making a bigger deal out of this than it truly is. I will say that in the Metro area, it seems like the population is comparatively older than ever. It could be that pockets of younger folks have become more concentrated. All numbers aside, I am still concerned, but perhaps the issue of babyboomers reaching retirement age is more widespread than I thought and not simply limited to states like Michigan. Even Oregon is no exception, as 12.8 of its population is older than 65.

Here's the link: http://www.prb.org/Articles/2003/Whi...theOldest.aspx

Maybe next time you should check the statistics before you make statements that are not based on fact.

[p1acebo]

I suggest going out at a time and place where young people actually like to hang out, regardless of statistics. Remember metro Detroit is very spread out, there are a lot of places to go. Even check out some websites like after5detroit.com or 313rd.com to see whats going on.

[EastsideQT]

That's interesting..

Well, I just sort of surprised myself. As it turns out, Michigan ranks 30/50 for states with the oldest population. As of 2003, only 12.3% of Michigan's population was over 65. Florida ranked #1 with 17.6% of its population older than 65. The youngest state is Alaska, with a minuscule 5.7% of its population over 65. So, maybe I'm making a bigger deal out of this than it truly is. I will say that in the Metro area, it seems like the population is comparatively older than ever. It could be that pockets of younger folks have become more concentrated. All numbers aside, I am still concerned, but perhaps the issue of babyboomers reaching retirement age is more widespread than I thought and not simply limited to states like Michigan. Even Oregon is no exception, as 12.8 of its population is older than 65.

Here's the link: http://www.prb.org/Articles/2003/Whi...theOldest.aspx

Since you mentioned Detroit here are the statistics which again is contrary to what you believe.

Age 25-44: 226.241
Age 45-64: 186,688
Age 65 & over: 84,434

[wolverine]

I'd say this all depends where you go. Did you go to the mall, were you at a restaurant? 3 years ago when I last lived in Michigan I went to Great Lakes Crossings and I think there were plenty of people my age [[24 at the time).

Interestingly, when I moved out here to Chicago, all I seem to see is people my age. I heard something that in my friend's census tract 85% of the residents were between 25-35 years old. When I went out to eat with my girlfriend yesterday, there wasn't a single person over 40 in a busy downtown restaurant.

It's all a matter of where people choose to go or feel they belong when they get older. Technically age diversity is a good thing since it builds much more stable neighborhoods. A very young neighborhood like I described above could have a higher turnover rate of residents, and is obviously more likely to remain rental.

As for the disrespect, I think the question is valid, but the delivery was poor. The way it was put across was disrespectful. "float all these geriatrics when they can longer support themselves.." ....yeah not so nice. I'd feel awful if I said that in front of my parents. But the question you bring up is what everyone young and old asks when they are looking for a new place. "Where are people that are my age?" You want to have neighbors you can be social with.

[EastsideQT]

I'd say this all depends where you go. Did you go to the mall, were you at a restaurant? 3 years ago when I last lived in Michigan I went to Great Lakes Crossings and I think there were plenty of people my age [[24 at the time).

Interestingly, when I moved out here to Chicago, all I seem to see is people my age. I heard something that in my friend's census tract 85% of the residents were between 25-35 years old. When I went out to eat with my girlfriend yesterday, there wasn't a single person over 40 in a busy downtown restaurant.

It's all a matter of where people choose to go or feel they belong when they get older. Technically age diversity is a good thing since it builds much more stable neighborhoods. A very young neighborhood like I described above could have a higher turnover rate of residents, and is obviously more likely to remain rental.

As for the disrespect, I think the question is valid, but the delivery was poor. The way it was put across was disrespectful. "float all these geriatrics when they can longer support themselves.." ....yeah not so nice. I'd feel awful if I said that in front of my parents. But the question you bring up is what everyone young and old asks when they are looking for a new place. "Where are people that are my age?" You want to have neighbors you can be social with.

Well said.

[BrushStart]

Since you mentioned Detroit here are the statistics which again is contrary to what you believe.

Age 25-44: 226.241
Age 45-64: 186,688
Age 65 & over: 84,434

Yeah, I definitely jumped the gun on thinking Michigan ranked near the top of the list. There has been a lot of attention drawn to Michigan's brain drain recently in the media. Grand Rapids recently ranked #1 on Newsweek's "Dying Cities" list because of it's declining young population. Flint was ranked #2, and Detroit was #4. It's hard not look at reports like that, then have those reports reinforced by visual observation and think that everything is okay. As I said before, I do not mean any of this to be derogatory to the aged and the wise. I am more concerned about the stability of the state from a population standpoint. When you have friends in the 20-30 range fleeing for the exits, you start to question if you shouldn't be too. I'm pretty confident I'm not the only person who is thinking about this topic. Even Governor Snyder made a point to address the issue in his State of the State speech.

[BrushStart]

I'd say this all depends where you go. Did you go to the mall, were you at a restaurant? 3 years ago when I last lived in Michigan I went to Great Lakes Crossings and I think there were plenty of people my age [[24 at the time).

Interestingly, when I moved out here to Chicago, all I seem to see is people my age. I heard something that in my friend's census tract 85% of the residents were between 25-35 years old. When I went out to eat with my girlfriend yesterday, there wasn't a single person over 40 in a busy downtown restaurant.

It's all a matter of where people choose to go or feel they belong when they get older. Technically age diversity is a good thing since it builds much more stable neighborhoods. A very young neighborhood like I described above could have a higher turnover rate of residents, and is obviously more likely to remain rental.

I went out to eat at a Coney Island and was at the Meijer's off Middlebelt. Obviously, these places are not really young people hangouts at the time of day I was there, but I definitely felt isolated from people in my age range. For discussion's sake, I wasn't even the one who first noted this while we were out, my fiance was. Basically, she said "Why is everyone in here so old?" That's what initially got me thinking. I came home and started this thread. So far, it's been interesting.

As for the disrespect, I think the question is valid, but the delivery was poor. The way it was put across was disrespectful. "float all these geriatrics when they can longer support themselves.." ....yeah not so nice. I'd feel awful if I said that in front of my parents. But the question you bring up is what everyone young and old asks when they are looking for a new place. "Where are people that are my age?" You want to have neighbors you can be social with.

Dually noted and edited. I really was not trying to be callous, just poor delivery, as you stated.

[EastsideQT]

I went out to eat at a Coney Island and was at the Meijer's off Middlebelt. Obviously, these places are not really young people hangouts at the time of day I was there, but I definitely felt isolated from people in my age range. For discussion's sake, I wasn't even the one who first noted this while we were out, my fiance was. Basically, she said "Why is everyone in here so old?" That's what initially got me thinking. I came home and started this thread. So far, it's been interesting.

Dually noted and edited. I really was not trying to be callous, just poor delivery, as you stated.

Maybe you weren't trying to be callous. However, sensitivity is definitely not one of your strong points.

[wolverine]

BrushStart, There's also articles you can find out there that more specifically look at inbound and outbound numbers of young educated graduates. While it may look at Michigan's losses of longtime residents, the numbers don't always take into account graduates moving to Michigan from other states. You may in the end find that Michigan's brain drain losses aren't all that alarming. Places that are exceptions would be alpha city states such as California, New York, and Illinois with high inbound rate of educated grads, but a reshuffling of young residents from rural towns to the state's principle urban center.

As much people as I know left the state for better opportunities, I also know international and out of state residents that came to school in Michigan and ended up staying. You'll find people from California, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania staffing positions in Detroit's CDCs, planning organizations and the like.

[p1acebo]

BrushStart, There's also articles you can find out there that more specifically look at inbound and outbound numbers of young educated graduates. While it may look at Michigan's losses of longtime residents, the numbers don't always take into account graduates moving to Michigan from other states. You may in the end find that Michigan's brain drain losses aren't all that alarming. Places that are exceptions would be alpha city states such as California, New York, and Illinois with high inbound rate of educated grads, but a reshuffling of young residents from rural towns to the state's principle urban center.

As much people as I know left the state for better opportunities, I also know international and out of state residents that came to school in Michigan and ended up staying. You'll find people from California, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania staffing positions in Detroit's CDCs, planning organizations and the like.

+1 to this completely. Statistics can be manipulated in any manner, you have to read between the lines.

In addition to this I too know of people that have moved here for graduate school [[some of my med school classmates) who plan on staying and they are also from out of state.

[wolverine]

I went out to eat at a Coney Island and was at the Meijer's off Middlebelt. Obviously, these places are not really young people hangouts at the time of day I was there, but I definitely felt isolated from people in my age range. For discussion's sake, I wasn't even the one who first noted this while we were out, my fiance was. Basically, she said "Why is everyone in here so old?" That's what initially got me thinking. I came home and started this thread. So far, it's been interesting.

If you go to Meijers around 9 or 10 you may notice more people your age. Even back when I was in Ann Arbor I'd see mostly families at Meijers middle of the day, but nighttime it was always students.

In my earlier post, I also mentioned some restaurants attract a younger demographic. Some of the more hip and trendy type of places will attract a younger crowd by the type of atmosphere they create.
Coney Island attracts everyone, so you'll find people of all ages there. Although the Detroit Coney Island they opened up here in Chicago has plenty of young people lol

[gazhekwe]

Ya know why the diners have Early Bird Specials til 6 pm? The elders are out prospecting then, looking for their evening meal at a good price. So, you hit prime shopping and prospecting time at a magnet location. So, go out there after 6 next time and catch the young families scrambling to get their weekend shopping out of the way at the last minute before going home to get ready for the week.

Somehow your post reminded me of the time we took my sister and her husband out to eat near Northland. They had been living in Anchorage for a good ten years. We were eating our meal and not thinking anything about demographics, which looked normal to us, of course. Mike looked around during the meal, leaned in close and said, "I had heard Detroit had a lot of black people...." I looked around and realized everyone else in the place was black, and then there were these two Indians and two whites. "Business as usual," I said. If you look for difference, you will see it. You see age, he saw race. What if you just saw people? What difference does it really make?

There are studies going on nowadays, in universities and think tank, how to handle the aging of the baby boom population. They have grown up dominating every decade by sheer numbers. Now they are aging, so it looks like there are a lot of them. Guess what? There ARE a lot of them. And it isn't because everybody else is leaving.

[BrushStart]

Maybe you weren't trying to be callous. However, sensitivity is definitely not one of your strong points.

That's a fair point, and no, it's not. My fiance tells me that just about every day. Somehow, it just never sinks in.

[BrushStart]

Ya know why the diners have Early Bird Specials til 6 pm? The elders are out prospecting then, looking for their evening meal at a good price. So, you hit prime shopping and prospecting time at a magnet location. So, go out there after 6 next time and catch the young families scrambling to get their weekend shopping out of the way at the last minute before going home to get ready for the week.

Somehow your post reminded me of the time we took my sister and her husband out to eat near Northland. They had been living in Anchorage for a good ten years. We were eating our meal and not thinking anything about demographics, which looked normal to us, of course. Mike looked around during the meal, leaned in close and said, "I had heard Detroit had a lot of black people...." I looked around and realized everyone else in the place was black, and then there were these two Indians and two whites. "Business as usual," I said. If you look for difference, you will see it. You see age, he saw race. What if you just saw people? What difference does it really make?

There are studies going on nowadays, in universities and think tank, how to handle the aging of the baby boom population. They have grown up dominating every decade by sheer numbers. Now they are aging, so it looks like there are a lot of them. Guess what? There ARE a lot of them. And it isn't because everybody else is leaving.

All very true. I am also used to being downtown 98% of the time, so I really don't experience the suburbs as much as when I lived there. I suppose I have become somewhat accustomed to seeing people in my age range, out at restaurants, shopping, at the bar, at concerts, etc. All of the media reporting definitely has an effect though, because like you said, you end up looking for what you think is true. I know people in my age range have a certain anxiety about being "left behind" in Michigan. That one day, we're going to be the only ones left. We're told that all the young and the educated are fleeing. While I'm smart enough to know statistics can be manipulated, it's hard to ignore that many people yelling fire in the theater. My limited understanding of age demographics is that when a society loses its young population to support its older population, there can be serious problems. On a national level is one thing, but it should be clear by now that my original concern was that young people are leaving Michigan disproportionately to other states, thus causing a strain once the older generation leaves the workforce and requires assistance. Based on the stats, Michigan is not even ranked in the top half of states with the highest aged population. In that sense, reality is starkly different than what is being reported, and what I thought was the case.

[rencense]

I think some of you are being way too hard on brushstart and putting words in his mouth.

I myself am 25 years old and just graduated from a local university and I agree with his original assertion. The point here [[which should be obvious) is that the older population is a valuable and beloved part of our region but that doesn't negate the fact that an area has to have some younger people to grow and thrive.

At least from anecdotal evidence I can tell you that young people are fleeing michigan. Regardless of how valuable the older population of the state is, how can you see a bright future where a growing number of people are finding the state to be a place that isn't attractive to stick around and have a family?. There are places where these people wind up like chicago, portland, austin, raleigh, etc. places that offer something to the younger crown besides standard suburbia.

I can tell you that it is only proximity to family and my love of the city of detroit that keeps me here. The biggest point I can make is that once you lose the 20 something crowd to elsewhere usa you are unlikely to get them back.

[laurin]

I think some of you are being way too hard on brushstart and putting words in his mouth.

I myself am 25 years old and just graduated from a local university and I agree with his original assertion. The point here [[which should be obvious) is that the older population is a valuable and beloved part of our region but that doesn't negate the fact that an area has to have some younger people to grow and thrive.

At least from anecdotal evidence I can tell you that young people are fleeing michigan. Regardless of how valuable the older population of the state is, how can you see a bright future where a growing number of people are finding the state to be a place that isn't attractive to stick around and have a family?. There are places where these people wind up like chicago, portland, austin, raleigh, etc. places that offer something to the younger crown besides standard suburbia.

I can tell you that it is only proximity to family and my love of the city of detroit that keeps me here. The biggest point I can make is that once you lose the 20 something crowd to elsewhere usa you are unlikely to get them back.

Well said. I agree.

[English]

Well, I'm officially entering my mid-30s this year, and was once a DYes young whippersnapper, so I've got some perspective on this issue. Some of my friends who fled to those alpha cities in their 20s are really missing home now. Many are married and have kids, and the ONLY thing keeping them away from Michigan is jobs. People go where the jobs are.

Hip cities have a lot to do, but there's no breathing room. As a teacher and a writer, I need space to contemplate and dream. I love to kick around NYC and Chicago and London, but I knew when I was very young that I wouldn't be at home there. The cool thing is that I can rent a place in metro Detroit or even in the heart of the city for less than $1K. The money I would have spent on 1) rent and 2) travel expenses for visiting family if I'd moved to Seattle or San Fran or NYC has been spent on trips around the country and the world. When we were in our 20s, my buddies were shocked -- shocked! -- that I had my own little apartment for less than 700 bucks a month, and I wasn't in the projects. They all came to visit and fell in love with Midtown. Would they trade it for Hip City, USA? Nah. Did several return for multiple visits? Yep.

Your mileage may vary, of course. But one more thing... I've gotten some great friendships and colleagueships out of those "older folks" you're a little wary of. The neat thing about Detroit is that some events and organizations feature people of all ages who are passionate about the city and mega-involved. I haven't yet plunged in full speed ahead, but as my adjustment period at work ends and the winter will abate in a month or two, I'm really looking forward to settling in the city and getting back into some things.

My folks always told me that you can't search for happiness, happiness is within you... you take it wherever you go. I have some friends who find a place and love it. Others move from place to place, from city to city, and something is always wrong with wherever they land. Don't try so hard to be cool, try harder to be content. Life is short.

[DetroitDad]

Brush, Coney what? Didn't you get the memo? We all hang out in Taco Bell now. You know... ever since the economy tanked and they started offering those $2 meal deals.

Livonia is a good place, there are a couple good Taco Bells there. Malls failed, Great Lakes Crossing turned into discount outlet of unkewl. We don't hang out in Meijer and Walmart, those spots are for the teenagers.... and yes, this is what we have for public space in M to the I.... MI Michigan, whoa is Michigan.

The club scene hasn't been so hot with the economy being down. The yougins have apparently been hit pretty hard.

PS: I don't think you are disrespectful. I am downright mad that we are being forced to pay for the boomer's greed and glut. Everything they have, they have because of the investments and sacrifices of the past generation. So what will we inherit? Debt? A poorly built mcmansion in former cornfields and woodlands? A wasted planet with nothing left to consume? Crumbling infrastructure? Fallen empires and governments? Corrupt systems? What will they be leaving us? I'm mad! I'm mad when I look in my daughter's eyes and have the strangest feeling that the days of my children will be harder than my days, thanks to government/Wall Street's subsidized greed and corruption. I'm mad..... sigh.

[wolverine]

I don't buy into the whole "wanting to move back to Michigan" rhetoric. When people move elsewhere, they build new relationships. People keep their friends close, and possibly family if married and their spouse is from the area. I've heard so many people who have graduated and move all over say "well eventually I'll move back home" but that rarely happens. They get used to the new place where they live, begin to love it more than ever, build a huge network of friends and shed plenty of contact back home.

I suppose if you really hated where you moved and avoided the social scene, you have a good chance of moving back. But for most of the Michiganders I know in Chicago, our lifestyles and interests have changed quite a bit. Moving back to the way things were would seem foreign and possibly even difficult.

Michigan should try to retain graduates and attract graduates from other places as well. It should not try to focus on bringing people home.

[laurin]

It's alittle old [[04/09), but it touches on the points brought up about the exodus of 'younger' residents.

http://detnews.com/article/20090402/...#ixzz1CbpD0DMb

[Hermod]

If the housing market were to pick up and they could sell their homes in Michigan, you would also see a further exodus of the older folks as well, particularly the ones with more than a Social Security check. Tennessee and Florida have no state income tax and a warmer climate. Michigan has an income tax that might be increased and, for those who have built a nest egg over anf above their retirement check, a state "intangibles tax".

[p1acebo]

I don't buy into the whole "wanting to move back to Michigan" rhetoric. When people move elsewhere, they build new relationships. People keep their friends close, and possibly family if married and their spouse is from the area. I've heard so many people who have graduated and move all over say "well eventually I'll move back home" but that rarely happens. They get used to the new place where they live, begin to love it more than ever, build a huge network of friends and shed plenty of contact back home.

I suppose if you really hated where you moved and avoided the social scene, you have a good chance of moving back. But for most of the Michiganders I know in Chicago, our lifestyles and interests have changed quite a bit. Moving back to the way things were would seem foreign and possibly even difficult.

Michigan should try to retain graduates and attract graduates from other places as well. It should not try to focus on bringing people home.

Funny you mention Michiganders in Chicago, I have a few friends that moved there and all the friends they made there were from Michigan too. Seems like Chicago is just Michigan #2, it is kind of say but some of my friends have moved back so it isn't as impossible as you think.

[DetroitPole]

Sure we have a lot to offer...but it's all spread the hell out. Now let's say I live in Grosse Pointe and if I wanted to go to Cranbrook during the day, go shopping at Great Lakes Crossing, and go see a sports game downtown...I'm spending how many hours driving?? Young people don't want to live in the sprawling wasteland that is SE MI, first of all.

Does anyone think a young creative, "hip" person wants to live in Novi? Then let's flip that - does a young person want to raise a family in the warzone Detroit? [[yes, young people do think about having families eventually) For some reason the aging boomers in this region never really got that. Why do we need a great, world class city when we have places like...Livonia! Canton! Sterling Heights! Of course the boomers scream, "BUT THE SUBURBS HAVE GOOD SCHOOLS! SAFE! NO BLACKS!" Not the same value system as the younger generation.

This is all on top of the fact that there are no jobs here.

My source: me. I'm mid-twenties. All my friends are leaving and the only young people in my neighborhood live with their parents.

[Hermod]

hOf course the boomers scream, "BUT THE SUBURBS HAVE GOOD SCHOOLS! SAFE! NO BLACKS!" Not the same value system as the younger generation.

A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged.

[Detroitnerd]

A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged.

A liberal is a conservative who's been fired.