Grosse Pointe Park, Detroit at odds over historic buildings

[bailey]

The issue is that Grosse Pointe Park had the means to revitalize a building that they owned. It's not like the City of Detroit who is starving for money and owns a lot of large and vacant properties, but GPP could have very easily renovated that building and put it to productive use. It's doesn't make a lick of difference the condition of the rest of the neighborhood, GPP had the opportunity to contribute and improve a little part of the neighborhood but choose not to. Even if it wasn't a historical building, they still wasted an easy opportunity.

Not to belabor the point here, but GP only bought the building in Detroit to tear it down.

[animatedmartian]

Why did the previous businesses there fail? Why is the neighborhood failing? Is tiny GPP in a situation to fix the overwhelming issues with that location at the time being?

If you think fixing Detroit should be as easy as handing over properties to GPP, we should dissolve Detroit and divvy up the properties between the rest of the metro area. Warren can fix Van Dyke. The Pointes can fix Jefferson and Kercheval. Birmingham will tidy up all of Woodward.

This has to do with one property that GPP decided to buy. GPP could have just as easily left the building alone and let Detroit deal with it like so many other properties along Alter Road.

[nain rouge]

So Detroit gets a free pass on demolishing buildings, but not GPP? So GPP demolished a building instead of Detroit. Big deal.

[animatedmartian]

Not to belabor the point here, but GP only bought the building in Detroit to tear it down.

Right. But that still doesn't mean they were incapable of doing something more productive with it. They just choose not to.

[bailey]

This has to do with one property that GPP decided to buy. GPP could have just as easily left the building alone and let Detroit deal with it like so many other properties along Alter Road.

Right. But that still doesn't mean they were incapable of doing something more productive with it. They just choose not to.

Maybe third time will be the charm? GPP ONLY BOUGHT IT TO TEAR IT DOWN AS PART OF A LARGER REDEVELOPMENT PLAN MADE WITH DETROIT OFFICIALS AT THE TIME.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

[Mackinaw]

Good for The Pointes.

Related note, are The Pointes doing anything to buy and tear down the saddest houses in the Cabbage Patch?

Define "saddest." This sounds completely absurd. The knee-jerk demolition urge needs to be eradicated. Sounds like you'd be okay with us ending up with another outrageous looking building like that one on Lakepointe which uses about 1/4 of its lot-- where there used to be a row of 5-6 houses.

Bailey: why is having a cohesive block or a completely blank slate so valuable to the city? Not critiquing your post, just the apparent interest of the government. It's a goal that several other governments have shared in the past, and it's ludicrous. The hunger for the creation of superblocks and the complete eradication of all things old is so often evident when the government inserts itself in redevelopment. Here, it seems particularly unwarranted and unjustified when you look back at the recent history of E. Jefferson. Everything that's been torn down to date could have and should have been reused, and there's no shortage of empty land/parking lots already available for GPP to pursue coordinated development if it so insisted. Yet all we've gotten in the last 15 years is a silly-looking library. Odd how the Republican leadership of that town is scared to let the market steer the course of land and building use. They are meddling, and doing a horrible job at it.

[animatedmartian]

So Detroit gets a free pass on demolishing buildings, but not GPP? So GPP demolished a building instead of Detroit. Big deal.

Detroit doesn't get a free pass on demolishing buildings. Where have you been?

[nain rouge]

It's just the way you wrote it: GPP could have just as easily left the building alone and let Detroit deal with it like so many other properties along Alter Road.

Instead, GPP bought it and dealt with it. GPP doesn't have the resources to fix that area of Detroit. It would require regional cooperation.

[1953]

I'm greatly saddened by the continuing near sightedness of our region [[including especially Grosse Pointe Park) when it comes to the value of historic buildings.

[bailey]

Bailey: why is having a cohesive block or a completely blank slate so valuable to the city? Not critiquing your post, just the apparent interest of the government. It's one that several other governments have shared in the past, and it's ludicrous. The hunger for the creation of superblocks and the complete eradication of all things old is so often evident when the government inserts itself in redevelopment. Here, it seems particularly unwarranted and unjustified when you look back at the recent history of E. Jefferson. Everything that's been torn down to date could have and should have been reused, and there's no shortage of empty land/parking lots already available for GPP to pursue coordinated development. Yet all we've gotten in the last 15 years is a silly-looking library. Odd how the Republican leadership of that town is scared to let the market steer the course of land and building use. They are meddling, and doing a horrible job at it.

I'm not making any judgments on the merits of the planning.... just trying to point out WHAT the plan was when it was made with Detroit regarding those parcels. Lets recall that the lawn out in front of that silly library was Jefferson Chevrolet and was supposed to be new condos and retail along Jefferson [[some of them got built on lakepointe). the mortgage meltdown killed that. I'll take the lawn over a defunct car dealership. It would seem GPP is in the wrong when it enters into planning agreements with Detroit along Alter and equally wrong when it goes it alone.

[nain rouge]

1953, I'm tired of everyone blaming the tearing own of old buildings as the culprit. That's a symptom of the disease, not the disease itself. If you want to "save" Detroit, support a regional initiative to revive the area, which would definitely include the other counties contributing heavily in exchange for certain favors or advantages.

But who is going to do that? Better to cry about a building that's demolished in a vanished neighborhood.

[animatedmartian]

It's just the way you wrote it: GPP could have just as easily left the building alone and let Detroit deal with it like so many other properties along Alter Road.

Instead, GPP bought it and dealt with it. GPP doesn't have the resources to fix that area of Detroit. It would require regional cooperation.

When I said 'deal with it' I didn't mean to demolish it. I meant the city would likely take it over and basically assess the options on what to do with it hopefully by renovating it or putting it up for auction.

[Radioron]

What makes a building historic and off limits for demolition? Is it public opinion? The determination of experts? Is a building historic just because its X number of years old?

For the Deck Bar, it was a business that was closed and the building was vacant. GPP had a plan to redevelop part of their city that involved moving the DOT bus turn around to that space. GPP drew up plans and had money available to develop the corner as the bus turn around. Plans were draw, the building was abated, finish items from inside were reclaimed. The utilities were disconnected and all the permits from Detroit for the demo were obtained. The demo company erected the fences around the building on a Friday morning so demo could start Monday. By Friday afternoon the building was declared historic and the permits pulled.

What changed for this building between Thursday and Friday that made it historic?

[Mackinaw]

Radioron, it could have been a fricken pawn shop for all I care, the significance comes from the architecture-- emblematic of our history-- and its potential for new use in an era where it is impossible to duplicate even basic pre-depression architecture.

[Mackinaw]

Ps when are Mayor Heenan and Mayor-P-T Theokas going to be called to the mat for their schizophrenic urban planning approaches? The good people of GPP must realize that they have a good thing going in their 1) historic neighborhoods and 2) proximity to Detroit, and they must realize by now that the leadership is imperiling the first and tarnishing the relationship as to the second, even though said leadership preaches a good game and claims to understand and champion the aforesaid virtues. Simply put, their chosen means are not advancing the obvious ends that everyone wants. Time for some new blood?

[belleislerunner]

What an eyesore - glad it's gone. Bring on the development, even if it's Kentucky bluegrass.

Now can we finish leveling all the blocks till we get to O'Reilly's Auto Parts and level that abandoned Taco Bell while we're at it. So much unsightly waste over there.

[nain rouge]

Radioron, it could have been a fricken pawn shop for all I care, the significance comes from the architecture-- emblematic of our history-- and its potential for new use in an era where it is impossible to duplicate even basic pre-depression architecture.

If we could go back in time and save that Detroit neighborhood, I'd be all for it. But we already lost it. Outrage over someone demolishing the last empty few buildings is misplaced. Put your energy into saving Jefferson Chalmers. Otherwise you'll be crying again when someone demolishes the last couple of buildings on Jefferson. "Why couldn't they save it? If it was me, I would, but for some reason I didn't."

[Mackinaw]

Jefferson-Chalmers is looking quite solid after several recent rehabs. I'm not seeing your point. "They," i.e. market actors, have made some great choices at Jeff-Chalmers, as they were able to. The market couldn't do shit here, because GPP, in pursuit of its delusional master plan, got in the way.

[Radioron]

Who gets to decide that a building is historic? Is it Mackinaw? Does Lowell get to decide? Is it an unnamed secretary at the Historic commission? Who wields that power?

And what made them change their mind from Thursday to Friday?

[nain rouge]

The market couldn't do shit here, because GPP, in pursuit of its delusional master plan, got in the way.

If you believe that was the real problem, you should start buying up properties on Kercheval in Detroit right now. All it needs is a market actor like yourself.

[Mackinaw]

@Radioron: The Historic District Commission, which just this month [[or was it last?) denied permission to demolish. There is no indication that the Commission changed course this week. The best theory is that the City issued the demolition permit in spite of the Commission. I'd defer to a Detroit-based attorney practicing in this area to advise on whether that is improper or ultra vires. Probably the former, probably not the latter. If this theory is correct, it's a dark day for the Commission's jurisdiction and for its ability to protect lawfully created historic districts, which is its charge.

[bailey]

Jefferson-Chalmers is looking quite solid after several recent rehabs. I'm not seeing your point.

The one significant rehab is blocks away from this one, isolated building. On the corner is a closed up dollar store and parking lot across Alter and gas stations on the opposing two corners. The horse long ago left that barn.

"They," i.e. market actors, have made some great choices at Jeff-Chalmers, as they were able to.

one of those great choices being; NOT buying the Deck or the party store at issue here when they were available for purchase.

The market couldn't do shit here, because GPP, in pursuit of its delusional master plan, got in the way.

The issue is the "market" WASN'T doing shit. GPP purchased it to ameliorate blight at its borders [[that neither Detroit nor the "market" seemed too concerned with) and redevelop a strip of Jefferson it does control. I 'm not getting the "delusional" aspect of this act.

You keep lamenting the lost "potential" ---and I agree...potentially this could have been rehabbed in 05-06--- but you're refusing to recognize the reality that it wasn't going to be.

[Mackinaw]

If you believe that was the real problem, you should start buying up properties on Kercheval in Detroit right now. All it needs is a market actor like yourself.[/COLOR]

NR, nice side-step. Haven't you noticed that in the last five years multiple Jefferson-Chalmers buildings got rehabbed and got new tenants during the same time in which GPP sat on this building with an even better location? The value to GPP was obliteration, which it pursued from the moment it took title; the alternative was an ultra low-price sale to a rehabber, which it clearly had no interest in.

[nain rouge]

Look, I said Jefferson Chalmers is a viable neighborhood. But to say it's thriving, optimal, or fixed is a stretch. It's at a pivotal moment. I haven't hung around that neighborhood much, but as little as five years ago there was this article: http://www.metrotimes.com/detroit/st...nt?oid=2196851 . And looking at the business district, it's far from secure. We've seen some good investments there, but to say Jefferson Chalmers has arrived is a stretch and you know it. It needs people like you to save it.

[nain rouge]

Here's a more recent article: http://archive.freep.com/article/201...erson-chalmers .

It's not like Kercheval didn't have business try to revitalize the area while it was in decline. The trick is to fix the neighborhood before it's too late.

Bottom line, we get a strong police presence back in Jefferson Chalmers and we save it. But who's going to pay for that? Instead we'll whine about the last historic building getting knocked down.