La Vogue Apartments renovation

**softailrider** · January-31-11, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

And where do all the people come from to make it work? In 1950, Detroit had 1.8m people. In 1980, the city had 1.2m. Now it has around 800,000 and still declining.

Light rail from downtown to Palmer Park is going to get half a million people to move back to the city? Where do all the people come from to make this work? And what will they do here for a living if they move back? Light rail is supposed to make all these people come back to the city? It'll take a lot more than positive thinking to bring that area of the city back to a decent state. How about a miracle? The area is so lawless that the last time I drove through there cars weren't even stopping and waiting at red lights--they just drove straight through the busy intersection. Plus, I just don't change looking at the 60 year trend of declining population data.

I'm in the city every day. The vast majority [[99%+) of the traffic I see stops for red lights.

**davewindsor** · January-31-11, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by softailrider

I'm in the city every day. The vast majority [[99%+) of the traffic I see stops for red lights.

Last time I was driving through Palmer Park, I had cars honking like I was insane for stopping at a red light and pass me and whip straight through red lights. That was month ago. Time was around 6-7pm. Maybe they were worried a pedestrian would pull out a gun and carjack them. I don't know. Almost everyone was doing it. It happened at two intersections. It wasn't a yellow light turning red. It was red when I got there and I stopped. They didn't even treat it as a four way stop and stop. They just slowed down a little and whipped right through. Happened twice and I got the hell out of there and back on Woodward because I didn't want to get hit.

bartock · January-31-11, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

Last time I was driving through Palmer Park, I had cars honking like I was insane for stopping at a red light and pass me and whip straight through red lights. That was month ago. Time was around 6-7pm. Maybe they were worried a pedestrian would pull out a gun and carjack them. I don't know. Almost everyone was doing it. It happened at two intersections. It wasn't a yellow light turning red. It was red when I got there and I stopped. They didn't even treat it as a four way stop and stop. They just slowed down a little and whipped right through. Happened twice and I got the hell out of there and back on Woodward because I didn't want to get hit.

What red light in Palmer Park? I don't know of any. McNichols, perhaps?

**davewindsor** · January-31-11, 09:46 AM

I turned off Woodward to check out a street lined with old apartment buildings. Later, I saw a couple burnt out ones. I'll have to look on the map again figure out the street.

Originally Posted by bartock

What red light in Palmer Park? I don't know of any. McNichols, perhaps?

**davewindsor** · January-31-11, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by bartock

What red light in Palmer Park? I don't know of any. McNichols, perhaps?

Had a look at the map. Are there traffic lights on McNichols? If so, I think it was McNichols.

bartock · January-31-11, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

Had a look at the map. Are there traffic lights on McNichols? If so, I think it was McNichols.

2nd, 3rd, Merton all around there are burnt/blown out apartments. My guess is that you were on McNichols, the driving on McNichols can be totally insane, though I doubt anyone was worried about being carjacked nearly as much as that is just demolition derby driving and most don't care.

**Zacha341** · January-31-11, 09:14 PM

Six mile is a zoo right around there... I avoid six mile due to the lack of any adherance to traffic lights. They might as well turn them off. It gets a bit better nearer Livernois...

Originally Posted by davewindsor

Last time I was driving through Palmer Park, I had cars honking like I was insane for stopping at a red light and pass me and whip straight through red lights. That was month ago. Time was around 6-7pm. Maybe they were worried a pedestrian would pull out a gun and carjack them. I don't know. Almost everyone was doing it. It happened at two intersections. It wasn't a yellow light turning red. It was red when I got there and I stopped. They didn't even treat it as a four way stop and stop. They just slowed down a little and whipped right through. Happened twice and I got the hell out of there and back on Woodward because I didn't want to get hit.

**mwilbert** · February-01-11, 08:30 AM

But, that's all moot. There isn't even evidence that there will be a net increase of 1 resident to the city, let alone 20,000 or even the half a million you'll need. So where are the people going to come from? Light rail isn't going to make a difference unless there's a huge surge of decent paying new jobs that light rail would take residents to from stops along Woodward. Light rail is just throwing good money after bad.

I don't think anyone believes light rail is going to repopulate Detroit. I believe it could help repopulate the Woodward corridor, of which Palmer Park is a part. Nor do I believe that a lot of that population has to come from outside the city--we want to encourage people to move from the prairie to the denser areas, like Palmer Park. You could increase the density along Woodward as the population of the city continues to fall. That wouldn't surprise me at all.

**softailrider** · February-01-11, 08:18 PM

[QUOTE=davewindsor;219481]Last time I was driving through Palmer Park, I had cars honking like I was insane for stopping at a red light and pass me and whip straight through red lights. That was month ago. Time was around 6-7pm. Maybe they were worried a pedestrian would pull out a gun and carjack them. I don't know. Almost everyone was doing it. It happened at two intersections. It wasn't a yellow light turning red. It was red when I got there and I stopped. They didn't even treat it as a four way stop and stop. They just slowed down a little and whipped right through. Happened twice and I got the hell out of there and back on Woodward because I didn't want to get hit.[/QUOTE

Being in the city 5 to 6 days a week, in every area you can think of, I see people run yellow lights all the time. I see see people speeding way over the limits, on every street and expressway in town. Like I said before though, when a light is red I very rarely see anyone ignore it and drive right through, almost everyone waits for the light to change to green. That includes any part of 6 Mile Road. I'm not saying it never happens, I just don't see that very often at all.