La Vogue Apartments renovation

**majohnson** · January-29-11, 02:56 PM

The La Vogue Apartments located at 225 Merton, Detroit, 48203 appear to be
under a gut renovation.
Demolition chutes, fencing, and public funding project signage are clearlyvisible at the property.

A publicly available report listing the $609,000 awarded to the project
lists the property as L'Vogue Square.
It also lists ownership by Kathy Makino (Leipsitz?), La Vogue Square LDHA LP.

CoD City Council’s September 14, 2009’s agenda gives the following
information about the project:
“ . . . Six (6) of the units will be occupied by tenants with incomes at
thirty-percent (30%) of the area median income adjusted for family size; six
(6) of the units will be occupied by tenants with incomes at forty-percent (40)
of the area median income adjusted for family size; sixteen (16) of the units
will be occupied by tenants with incomes at fifty-percent (50%) of the area
median income adjusted for family size; twelve (12) of the units will be
occupied by tenants with incomes at sixty-percent (60) of the area median
income adjusted for family size; four (4) units will be reserved for special
needs tenants; five (5) 2-bedrooms or larger will be reserved for families with
children; one unit will be used by the manager/employee. . . .”

Does anyone have any background information about the project?
Why this building, why know, is it a bet on light rail?

**BrushStart** · January-29-11, 03:22 PM

There are some beautiful tenement buildings over there: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sa...,0.077162&z=14 There's also many nice ones located on Whitmore. They just don't build them like that anymore.

**EastsideQT** · January-29-11, 03:28 PM

Kathy Makino Leipsitz and her husband Mark are project developers who are responsible for the renovation and construction of many apartment buildings throughout the city. I worked with them along with Detroit Central City Community Mental Health and Cots on a Supportive Housing project for the mentally ill homeless population. Google them to find out about the many projects they are responsible for.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · January-29-11, 03:55 PM

What a beautiful building. I'm glad its being renovated.

**rencense** · January-29-11, 04:02 PM

Ok here I go with my predictions again

I think the palmer park apt district is going to make a major comeback if/when light rail serves it. The area really has some things going for it. First of all Detroit doesn't have many apartment districts and few places anywhere could compete with the architecture found in this area.

The other big perk is that is is right off of woodward and very concentrated plus palmer park is right across the way. My prediction is that as downtown and midtown get more expensive and the light rail comes this way this spot will be very popular with the younger crowd. As it is beautiful apartments are dirt cheap there and I know I would be interested in one if I could hop on the train and be downtown in a few minutes.

I can't say how bad that area is crime wise currently but eventually I could imagine a private security patrol for the area given how small and dense it is. If you could live in a stunning apartment for half the price of downtown (but a 5 minute trip away) I think many would go for it.

**Augustiner** · January-29-11, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by rencense

If you could live in a stunning apartment for half the price of downtown (but a 5 minute trip away) I think many would go for it.

Five minutes? It's light rail, not the freaking Concorde.

**EastsideQT** · January-29-11, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Augustiner

Five minutes? It's light rail, not the freaking Concorde.

Good One...

**majohnson** · January-30-11, 10:32 PM

What sort of new businesses could you imagine being currently supported on the east side of Woodward between 6 and 7 mile?

I could see a Honeybee Market and I would like to imagine the likes of a (ferndale's) Western Fruit Market. As opposed to a fancy food store, I know Detroiters who shop at Western, and I have seen people use their bridge cards there.
From a conversation with a Western Fruit Market employee I know there food is mainly sent from the Eastern Market. So I assume those relationships and general market conditions control their fruit prices.
What would it take for someone to open a sizable fruit market somewhere on Woodward?

Also, how does that same area support a fancy water refill shop (The Refill Station)?
I am happy the customers have there wants met, but if a water shop why not all the other offerings that one would expect in the neighborhood?
Coffee shop, pizza, etc?

Lastly, has anyone ever been to the Golden Gate Cafe? Any opinions?

**wolverine** · January-31-11, 01:18 AM

This is great to hear. It's a cool looking building

**citylover** · January-31-11, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by rencense

Ok here I go with my predictions again

I think the palmer park apt district is going to make a major comeback if/when light rail serves it. The area really has some things going for it. First of all Detroit doesn't have many apartment districts and few places anywhere could compete with the architecture found in this area.

The other big perk is that is is right off of woodward and very concentrated plus palmer park is right across the way. My prediction is that as downtown and midtown get more expensive and the light rail comes this way this spot will be very popular with the younger crowd. As it is beautiful apartments are dirt cheap there and I know I would be interested in one if I could hop on the train and be downtown in a few minutes.

I can't say how bad that area is crime wise currently but eventually I could imagine a private security patrol for the area given how small and dense it is. If you could live in a stunning apartment for half the price of downtown (but a 5 minute trip away) I think many would go for it.

Except that not so long ago it was doing well (Palmer pk apt area) . The Palmer park apt area was a thriving gay area.Apt bldgs were fixed up and people were making the area come back. Then crime came along and people got hurt and of course the cops did very little( anti gay?) and so people left and the area went to shit...again.

So forgive those of us who view this with a lot of skepticism .

**Hermod** · January-31-11, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by citylover

Then crime came along and people got hurt and of course the cops did very little( anti gay?) and so people left and the area went to shit...again.

Never ascribe to malice what can easily be explained by incompetence (the administration, not the individual officers).

The police do little about crime anywhere in the city.

**davewindsor** · January-31-11, 06:53 AM

And where do all the people come from to make it work? In 1950, Detroit had 1.8m people. In 1980, the city had 1.2m. Now it has around 800,000 and still declining.

Light rail from downtown to Palmer Park is going to get half a million people to move back to the city? Where do all the people come from to make this work? And what will they do here for a living if they move back? Light rail is supposed to make all these people come back to the city? It'll take a lot more than positive thinking to bring that area of the city back to a decent state. How about a miracle? The area is so lawless that the last time I drove through there cars weren't even stopping and waiting at red lights--they just drove straight through the busy intersection. Plus, I just don't change looking at the 60 year trend of declining population data.

Originally Posted by rencense

Ok here I go with my predictions again

I think the palmer park apt district is going to make a major comeback if/when light rail serves it. The area really has some things going for it. First of all Detroit doesn't have many apartment districts and few places anywhere could compete with the architecture found in this area.

The other big perk is that is is right off of woodward and very concentrated plus palmer park is right across the way. My prediction is that as downtown and midtown get more expensive and the light rail comes this way this spot will be very popular with the younger crowd. As it is beautiful apartments are dirt cheap there and I know I would be interested in one if I could hop on the train and be downtown in a few minutes.

I can't say how bad that area is crime wise currently but eventually I could imagine a private security patrol for the area given how small and dense it is. If you could live in a stunning apartment for half the price of downtown (but a 5 minute trip away) I think many would go for it.

**mwilbert** · January-31-11, 07:16 AM

And where do all the people come from to make it work? In 1950, Detroit had 1.8m people. In 1980, the city had 1.2m. Now it has around 800,000 and still declining.

Light rail from downtown to Palmer Park is going to get half a million people to move back to the city?

No, nor does it need to. The Palmer Park area probably couldn't house more than 20,000 people if everything were full, and there are already lots of people there.

Light rail will make the area a little more attractive. If it improves the retail around 6 and Woodward, it will make the area a fair bit more attractive. I have been considering moving to Palmer Park when I stop wanting to live in a house, and the light rail would make me more inclined to do so. That's still several years away, so I'll see what things are like then.

bartock · January-31-11, 08:02 AM

...and it is about a mile from University of Detroit Mercy, though I've never heard of Palmer Park being any sort of hotbed for college students (acknowledging the fact that UDM is largely commuter).

**davewindsor** · January-31-11, 08:16 AM

If 20,000 people moved into the city next year, I doubt more than a few hundred would choose Palmer Park. It's a huge city and there's so many other places to live closer (and that are safer for that matter) than 7 miles from downtown.

But, that's all moot. There isn't even evidence that there will be a net increase of 1 resident to the city, let alone 20,000 or even the half a million you'll need. So where are the people going to come from? Light rail isn't going to make a difference unless there's a huge surge of decent paying new jobs that light rail would take residents to from stops along Woodward. Light rail is just throwing good money after bad.

Originally Posted by mwilbert

No, nor does it need to. The Palmer Park area probably couldn't house more than 20,000 people if everything were full, and there are already lots of people there.

Light rail will make the area a little more attractive. If it improves the retail around 6 and Woodward, it will make the area a fair bit more attractive. I have been considering moving to Palmer Park when I stop wanting to live in a house, and the light rail would make me more inclined to do so. That's still several years away, so I'll see what things are like then.

**softailrider** · January-31-11, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

And where do all the people come from to make it work? In 1950, Detroit had 1.8m people. In 1980, the city had 1.2m. Now it has around 800,000 and still declining.

Light rail from downtown to Palmer Park is going to get half a million people to move back to the city? Where do all the people come from to make this work? And what will they do here for a living if they move back? Light rail is supposed to make all these people come back to the city? It'll take a lot more than positive thinking to bring that area of the city back to a decent state. How about a miracle? The area is so lawless that the last time I drove through there cars weren't even stopping and waiting at red lights--they just drove straight through the busy intersection. Plus, I just don't change looking at the 60 year trend of declining population data.

I'm in the city every day. The vast majority (99%+) of the traffic I see stops for red lights.

**softailrider** · January-31-11, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

No, nor does it need to. The Palmer Park area probably couldn't house more than 20,000 people if everything were full, and there are already lots of people there.

Light rail will make the area a little more attractive. If it improves the retail around 6 and Woodward, it will make the area a fair bit more attractive. I have been considering moving to Palmer Park when I stop wanting to live in a house, and the light rail would make me more inclined to do so. That's still several years away, so I'll see what things are like then.

I'll agree the retail around 6 Mile and Woodward could use some improvement. Still waiting for that Meijers up the street on State Fair.

**davewindsor** · January-31-11, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by softailrider

I'm in the city every day. The vast majority (99%+) of the traffic I see stops for red lights.

Last time I was driving through Palmer Park, I had cars honking like I was insane for stopping at a red light and pass me and whip straight through red lights. That was month ago. Time was around 6-7pm. Maybe they were worried a pedestrian would pull out a gun and carjack them. I don't know. Almost everyone was doing it. It happened at two intersections. It wasn't a yellow light turning red. It was red when I got there and I stopped. They didn't even treat it as a four way stop and stop. They just slowed down a little and whipped right through. Happened twice and I got the hell out of there and back on Woodward because I didn't want to get hit.

**hybridy** · January-31-11, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by bartock

...and it is about a mile from University of Detroit Mercy, though I've never heard of Palmer Park being any sort of hotbed for college students (acknowledging the fact that UDM is largely commuter).

speaking as a recent udm alum...students stopped living in palmer park in the 70's...most ppl living off campus opt to live in ferndale, royal oak, and hamtramck

bartock · January-31-11, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by hybridy

speaking as a recent udm alum...students stopped living in palmer park in the 70's...most ppl living off campus opt to live in ferndale, royal oak, and hamtramck

I did not know of anyone in Palmer Park when I was there. An aside, but when I graduated in 1998, there were actually still a few students living on Stoepel. I can't imagine there are any students on the west side of Livernois anymore.

bartock · January-31-11, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

Last time I was driving through Palmer Park, I had cars honking like I was insane for stopping at a red light and pass me and whip straight through red lights. That was month ago. Time was around 6-7pm. Maybe they were worried a pedestrian would pull out a gun and carjack them. I don't know. Almost everyone was doing it. It happened at two intersections. It wasn't a yellow light turning red. It was red when I got there and I stopped. They didn't even treat it as a four way stop and stop. They just slowed down a little and whipped right through. Happened twice and I got the hell out of there and back on Woodward because I didn't want to get hit.

What red light in Palmer Park? I don't know of any. McNichols, perhaps?

**davewindsor** · January-31-11, 08:46 AM

I turned off Woodward to check out a street lined with old apartment buildings. Later, I saw a couple burnt out ones. I'll have to look on the map again figure out the street.

Originally Posted by bartock

What red light in Palmer Park? I don't know of any. McNichols, perhaps?

**davewindsor** · January-31-11, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by bartock

What red light in Palmer Park? I don't know of any. McNichols, perhaps?

Had a look at the map. Are there traffic lights on McNichols? If so, I think it was McNichols.

**kryptonite** · January-31-11, 09:17 AM

I lived next to La Vogue about 1982-1983 in the building on 225 Covington. I had two friends that lived in La Vogue at different times. I can barely recall the interior. Palmer Park was getting terrible with crime, muggings were routine as were car thefts and break-ins. Someone broke into three units in my building in one day alone. Mine was one that they attempted to break into, the door was damaged but for some reason they were scared off. I would say at least 25 people I knew at the time all left PP before 1984 because of crime of fear of crime.

If Palmer Park were secure it could be a very nice residential area. The buildings are phenomenal, inside and out. Parking is an issue, but not nearly as bad as places like NYC or San Francisco. The view of the park from certain buildings is nice, there is enough grass and a few trees to give it an aesthetic appeal.

bartock · January-31-11, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

Had a look at the map. Are there traffic lights on McNichols? If so, I think it was McNichols.

2nd, 3rd, Merton all around there are burnt/blown out apartments. My guess is that you were on McNichols, the driving on McNichols can be totally insane, though I doubt anyone was worried about being carjacked nearly as much as that is just demolition derby driving and most don't care.