GM says open to moving from Detroit headquarters

[digitalvision]

GM employees paying an income tax to Detroit versus GM employees NOT paying an income tax to Warren.... how does that help GM out of its' current mess?

It's not about the company per se - that's more about instantly giving the employees a small pay raise and the CEOs as well. Just like the bailout and other issues, the CEOs do what's best for them, not their company. That's how capitalism works; it's the same reason why MCS hasn't been renovated. It's all about personal gain, and the sooner one learns that with these companies the better.

[R8RBOB]

Since GM already paid $1/2 billion to fix up the RenCen for their needs, how would the added expense of a move to the Tech Center be viewed as improving their bottom line?

To anyone who lives in a nice neighborhood in the city or suburbs, have you ever wondered why people who own houses in bad neighborhoods remain in those bad neighborhoods?

The same reason why GM won't leave Detroit for Warren. 500,000,000 dollars that's why. No way General Motors is going to leave the Ren Cen for the Tech Center because they know they can't get back the 1/2 billion they put into the Renaissance Center. If there were someone out there ready to give them a billions for the riverfront headquarters, they would be in Warren the next day but not in this market. So, back to my comment, you don't walk away from your property that you have spent dollar after dollar to maintain it unless you have someone ready to buy it and GM have no one ready to pay up.

To the person who says: Better to keep the auto show in Novi than have it move to Chicago, I say read your statement again. You are comparing Novi to Chicago. An alpha city to a suburb. Yeah.....

[Gistok]

It's not about the company per se - that's more about instantly giving the employees a small pay raise and the CEOs as well. Just like the bailout and other issues, the CEOs do what's best for them, not their company. That's how capitalism works; it's the same reason why MCS hasn't been renovated. It's all about personal gain, and the sooner one learns that with these companies the better.

Huh??? I thought the bailout IS THE ISSUE... anything they do will have to get the approval of the FEDS, which are now stakeholders in the company. I doubt the feds will want GM to deal with other issues besides the survival of the company. If moving their HQ to Warren becomes a diversion, rather than a TANGIBLE money saver, do you really think they will agree with it?

I hardly think that staying downtown versus moving to Warren will be a make or break move towards GMs survival. If anything, it would be a distraction.

And any tax incentives that GM would get from Warren, would likely be met in kind by Detroit. And as I stated... city taxes don't change the bottom line of the survival of GM. For saving GM, it's a non-issue.

[detmsp]

No way General Motors is going to leave the Ren Cen for the Tech Center because they know they can't get back the 1/2 billion they put into the Renaissance Center.

Yes and staying in the RenCen won't get them back the 1/2 billion either. It's called a sunk cost in economics. The amount GM paid for the Ren Cen will play absolutely no role in GM's decision to move or not. It would be absurd if it did.

[softailrider]

uh-oh.. if GM bolts, what happens to the riverwalk, etc.? what other corporation would it even be feasible to take up space there? geez..

Maybe the top eschelon of the wig store and African hair braiding industry.

[R8RBOB]

I LOL at all the people who think GM, an international company, owes any city anything. They are trying to stay in business and will do what they need to do in order to stay open.

GM does not owe Detroit or any of the outer fringe loons posting here who thinks Detroit is entitled to be the home of GM anything. If they move it is their choice and you have no say in it.

Why the hate? What did Detroit do to you? I don't believe anyone here including me believes that GM owe Detroit, however, it is time to realize this "move" is smoke and mirrors. GM wants tax breaks and they will get them and this move nonsense will go to the wayside.

[PurpleHeart]

Its amazing how the very same people who bad mouthed me about GM, the loans we received to stay in business, and about what my company makes [[product) are now here complaining about the possibility of us moving our headquarters out of Detroit.

And then there are those who say that because of this they will never buy another GM product again and try and convince people to buy foreign. Take a drive through through the neighborhoods and you'll see that somebody beat you to your threat, its full of Nissan's and Camry's already. Jim Fouts has come out and made it "mandatory" for all city employees to buy an American Car, good for you JIM! I hope it holds up in court and at least one politician has guts to do this, or at least attempt it.

No wonder we are considering moving the HQ out of Detroit!

We don't use that much space in the Ren Cen, and the Tech Center has enough empty space to accommodate the move with minimal cost. It only makes sense!

[EastsideAl]

GM has done this kind of thing constantly over the years, holding various government entities hostage with threats in order to extract tax concessions. What's striking and infuriating here is that they are being enabled in their scam by another local "leader."

Thanks a lot for all your help and cooperation in making this a better stronger and more cohesive region Mayor Fouts, oh and screw you too.

[bobby wobby]

Wow Jim Founts has just joined L Brooks in the kicking Detroit club,only trouble Warren is no Oakland County, now it just lost its D Metro sympathy ,,I think Jim Founts is a foolish and he will bring down whats left of Warren with him,If anything GM should move from Warren to Detroit,Downtown on the river is a lot hipper then 14 mile road.

[Gsgeorge]

Currently the headline on the Drudge Report.

Attachment 1151

[GREENTROIT]

Its amazing how the very same people who bad mouthed me about GM, the loans we received to stay in business, and about what my company makes [[product) are now here complaining about the possibility of us moving our headquarters out of Detroit.

And then there are those who say that because of this they will never buy another GM product again and try and convince people to buy foreign. Take a drive through through the neighborhoods and you'll see that somebody beat you to your threat, its full of Nissan's and Camry's already. Jim Fouts has come out and made it "mandatory" for all city employees to buy an American Car, good for you JIM! I hope it holds up in court and at least one politician has guts to do this, or at least attempt it.

No wonder we are considering moving the HQ out of Detroit!

We don't use that much space in the Ren Cen, and the Tech Center has enough empty space to accommodate the move with minimal cost. It only makes sense!

Minimal cost? You really think GM can move headquarters with minimal cost? We are talking about the same company that already received some $15B from the US Govt to stay afloat and is asking for another $11B before July 1st to avoid bankruptcy right? The same company that shut down for a month last year to save operating costs? You're telling me that it "only makes sense" to spend what will be millions to move 10 miles up the road?

The fact remains, GM will never vacate the Renaissance Center unless they sold it. And I'm pretty sure nobody is forking over a couple billion dollars for that complex. GM isn't considering a move. They are doing some politicking to try and boss around the City of Detroit to get some tax cuts... And this resident hopes that Bing and the Council call their bluff and don't blink. I pay my city taxes on my paycheck, if they don't want to, they can call their boss [[Obama) and ask if he'll allow a money-draining, worthless move to Warren [[he won't).

[MIRepublic]

Yeah, GM is going to leave the RenCen, alright. Yeah, the same year when Patterson becomes mayor of Detroit.

The money they'd instantly lose from moving their HQ's out of the Motor City would outstrip anything they'd save in the short term. They'd be sealing their already precarious fate. I think they do realize that they'd be lucky if they ended up like Motown Records, if you catch my drift.

[detmsp]

The money they'd instantly lose from moving their HQ's out of the Motor City would outstrip anything they'd save in the short term.

how exactly would they lose money instantly? and i don't understand your comment about short term savings. the reason to move would be long term savings at a short term cost [[the cost of physically moving everything to Warren and any facility upgrades to the tech center that would be needed)

[R8RBOB]

Its amazing how the very same people who bad mouthed me about GM, the loans we received to stay in business, and about what my company makes [[product) are now here complaining about the possibility of us moving our headquarters out of Detroit.

And then there are those who say that because of this they will never buy another GM product again and try and convince people to buy foreign. Take a drive through through the neighborhoods and you'll see that somebody beat you to your threat, its full of Nissan's and Camry's already. Jim Fouts has come out and made it "mandatory" for all city employees to buy an American Car, good for you JIM! I hope it holds up in court and at least one politician has guts to do this, or at least attempt it.

No wonder we are considering moving the HQ out of Detroit!

We don't use that much space in the Ren Cen, and the Tech Center has enough empty space to accommodate the move with minimal cost. It only makes sense!

How would you feel if your boss told you what kind of car you better buy? We cannot have politicians attempting to strong-arm people into buying things that they like. This includes American cars. If politicians like Fouts feel outrage because Americans buy foreign cars then they should stopped the flow of foreign imports. They should stopped Honda and Toyota and Benz from building plants in the United States.

Fouts is playing the politician, doing something controversial to get his name in the media. He know like you know this will be thrown out in court. This goes against the Fourteenth Amendment:

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

[R8RBOB]

how exactly would they lose money instantly? and i don't understand your comment about short term savings. the reason to move would be long term savings at a short term cost [[the cost of physically moving everything to Warren and any facility upgrades to the tech center that would be needed)

Do you really think General Motors is going walk away from 500,000,000 dollars of glass and steel?

Some folks really believe that GM can just pack up and leave. GM does not have a lease to break. The Ren Cen is theirs and they are not walking away from the Riverfront for a patch of land in Macomb Country.

[DTWflyer]

How much of the Ren Cen is GM even using these days?

Technically GM owns the whole complex.

GM has the majority of Tower 100,200,300, and 400.
Marriott has the Center Tower as the hotel
EDS has the majority of Tower 500
Deloitte has the majority of Tower 600

There are other tenants in the GM towers, but from what I've heard there are several nearly vacant floors that GM is no longer using.

[Red Devil]

That's right. They do own the building. That means if no one wants to buy it, GM could lease it out to whoever wants to move in. I'm sure some regional bank would love to slap their logo on the top of the RenCen

[runnerXT]

If GM leaves, they can take there goddamn Pontiac that I drive with them. Then I swear I will buy strictly foreign for the rest of my life and I will convince everyone I know to do so as well. And if those socialist force the move then well hello Republican party.

Only 26% of GM's worldwide sales in the first quarter came from the United States, down from 36% in the same period a year ago. The company sold only about 20,000 fewer vehicles in China than it did in the U.S. in April.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/11/news...ion=2009051111


this basically says that America has become less relevant to GM than ever. to take it a step further, America has become less and less relevant on the world stage.

[Det_ard]

GM has less than half the salaried headcount they had when they bought the RenCen. There's lots of vacant space in the RenCen and lots more at the Tech Center.

Is there any business reason why a struggling company like GM should continue to hold more than double their required office space? It'd be irresponsible of them to not try to rationalize their real estate holdings. They only reason to keep both properties is that they'd probably get so little for them if they tried to sell them in this terrible Detroit economy.

The Tech Center has some unique facilities. It wouldn't make sense for GM to sell the Tech Center.

On the other hand, if they could get 10% - 20% of what they have invested in the RenCen, it'd make sense for them to liquidate it. They're not likely to need it ever again, and they need the cash NOW.

[detmsp]

Do you really think General Motors is going walk away from 500,000,000 dollars of glass and steel?

Some folks really believe that GM can just pack up and leave. GM does not have a lease to break. The Ren Cen is theirs and they are not walking away from the Riverfront for a patch of land in Macomb Country.

I don't understand why this is such a hard concept for people: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost

Paying a lot of money does for the Ren Cen does not justify it's future use. It doesn't matter if GM stays in the Ren Cen, moves to Warren or moves to F-ing Pluto... the fact that they paid $500,000,000 for the building is something that cannot be undone! Since it can't be undone, it shouldn't be a factor in this decision.

What should be a factor in the decision would be future cash flows. How much does it cost to operate the Ren Cen? How much additional operating costs would be incurred by moving people to Warren? What's the one time revenue from selling the Ren Cen? What is the one time cost of moving to Warren?

[Gistok]

A move to the Tech Center would require that they build a new HQ... there is NOT enough existing office space at the Tech Center to house the additional RenCen workers. [[Note: not all the building space at the tech center is office space.)

Moving to the Tech Center would require building a new building. That requires $$$. Why would GM spend scarce dollars to build additional office space when they already own the PREMIER office complex in Michigan.... which in this economy they could only sell at giveaway prices.

Warren Mayor Jim Fouts offered free land for them to move to Warren to... that sounds like new construction... which really makes no sense, no matter who's fuzzy math you use.

[stinkbug]

Michigans biggest problem? Two-bit dipshit politicians like Fouts, Brooks, and Conyers. They're all cut from the same self-aggrandizing cloth.
I got news for you, Fouts, Warren is a piece of shit, and south Warren is about as nice as Brightmoor. Nobody is going to move there, industrial, commercial, residential, or otherwise, despite all the "premier development opportunity" signs popping up on vacant factories.
GM has given no indication of leaving Detroit. They said they have no plans to, yet won't rule it out. Which means they don't feel like talking to the idiots from the Detroit papers.
Fouts is inconsequensial, bumperstickers and all.
If only all these idiots would realize this region is sinking as a whole.
These people say they're Warren, Oakland County, and Detroit, like its impressive. Losers.

[wolverine]

GM isn't moving out of the RenCen anytime soon. But it's a good time to evaluate every aspect of the company, as to what can be done to improve their situation. I don't believe moving the headquarters is one of them. Alot of this is just media reaction. Big headline isn't it?

[R8RBOB]

Fouts offered free land for them to move to Warren to... that sounds like new construction... which really makes no sense, no matter who's fuzzy math you use.

I can understand Fouts motive to get GM to come to Warren. GM is cutting workers everywhere....even the Tech Center. What Fouts is thinking of is the businesses around the TC. The less workers as it stand means that no one is eating lunch, no one is shopping at the shops on Van Dyke, no one is drinking at the bars after work. For Fouts, having small businesses go belly-up will be a death blow to Warren so how do you replace the workers that GM is going to let go? Bring the GM HQ and its workers to replace the workers that were let go. Life is good again at Detroit's expense.

[Moetown]

The move to the ren cen only made sense in the dreamland that the former gm exec's lived in. Buy it for 50 mil, rebuild it for 500mil and then lease it back to gm.

This is not about detroit vs warren, its about fixing screwed up business decisions made by gm. The ren cen was waay too big for a bloated gm.
By the time gm gets out of bankruptcy, they will have half the dealers, and no pontiac or hummer and probably gmc.
Gm will not look like the company it was, and will have a much smaller headcount.

If they move the headquarters, it will be to the tech center, because it makes business sense.
The tech center is plenty big enough for a restructured gm to fit in. The old gm no chance, a new smaller gm will not be a problem.
For anybody that thinks they wont move because they just put 500mil into the rencen, they just lost 6 billion in a quarter, 500 mil is lunch money .

As for Mr Fouts, lets hope that he and monica do not hook up.