2011 Detroit Lions

[firstandten]

Also add to it that Schwartz didn't go for the 4th and half a foot at the middle of the field with 6 minutes left? I mean our offense isn't hurt but we had 3rd and 4th strings on defence.

I support Schwartz on that one. If you don't get it on 4th down you put your 3rd and 4th strings on defense between a rock and a hard place. Worst case you make them drive 80 yards to score a touchdown [[which is the only way they can beat you).

If you want to get mad at somebody the D-coordinator would be a better choice for making Webb look like a 1st string QB rather than the 3rd string he really is.

[Thruster315]

I support Schwartz on that one. If you don't get it on 4th down you put your 3rd and 4th strings on defense between a rock and a hard place. Worst case you make them drive 80 yards to score a touchdown [[which is the only way they can beat you).

I think this very well could've been one of those situations where Schwartz looks out to his offensive line and sees that they may be a bit gassed [[I would be too if I had to fend off Jared Allen all game). And if the Lions could've pinned them back even further than the 20, it would've been the most prudent move at the time. It's a tactical call which could be debated but weighing the two options I'm okay with it too.

If you want to get mad at somebody the D-coordinator would be a better choice for making Webb look like a 1st string QB rather than the 3rd string he really is.

Cliff Avril afterwards did say that they practiced for Ponder all week long. Cunningham did adjust the D, albeit a little late perhaps, but he did drop Avril back to shadow Webb. I saw a few times where we also opted to put Tulloch in as a shadow much like the Tebow defense. So I do think they adjusted but a little late for my taste.

[kenp]

You could really see the depth issue we have on defense in the last game. Our strength by far is the d-line. We rotate 7 or 8 guys all game long. Even Suh sits a lot more then I would have ever thought. You could see the d-line wearing down against Minn even before Webb got in. Without Suh and Fairly and the other guys out we looked gassed. It really exposes our linebackers and to make matters worse our db and safties are hurt and even their replacements were getting hurt. Then to bring in a running QB, it was very bad mix.
When Suh is in and dominates it makes all the others around him better, we need to get back to that Sunday.

[firstandten]

What we are seeing now is the concern I had with the Lions all along. Whats going to happen when we get into week 12 and beyond when the injuries start piling up. We can't use it as an excuse because all the teams have the same type of situations.The difference with the great teams is that the dropoff in talent level from starters to reserves isn't as bad.


I do think with a couple more drafts and free agent signings we will have a more consistant talent level thru out the roster.

[gnome]

One of the biggest weaknesses we had coming into the season was the defensive backfield. We were skinny back there, now we're anorexic. We've had wide receivers back there on occasion to plug the dyke, and time is running out for those injuries to mend.

Running back too is an area where pre-season lack-of-depth is coming home to roost. MoMo has been fine if your bar was super low, and that high ankle to Kevin Smith has dimmed what was a pretty picture. Poor guy went from sitting on the couch to NFL speed in an eye-blink and we're seeing what an all-pass offense looks like.

In looking at some stats I noticed we now have 29 sacks on the season. Last year we had 27 after 16 games. Not the best, but we may be looking at the result of having a pure pocket passer combined with an average O-line. Last year Shaun Hill and Drew Stanton were a bit more mobile. Hill rushed 22 times for 130 yards , Drew 18 times for 113 yards and a TD. Thus far this year Stafford has 19 rushes for 68 yards and 2 fumbles.

This is not to say either Hill or Stanton were Tarkingtons, just that Stafford is a classic pro-style pocket denizen.

Of those 29 sacks, I'm thinking almost 10 of them came against the Vikes in two games. Jared Allen had 3 of 5 last week and they had another 5 or 6 in Week Two. Not sure where I'm going with this post, but as FirstandTen, pointed out: we're hurt and we're gassed. Having Suh back will help, having Delmas and Huston back would be a comfort.

According to this Detnews piece, Huston looks like he'll be in for Sunday.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20111...101/112150386/

---

I'm sure a lot of you listened to the 97.1 interview with Suh yesterday. It was a big mess. Suh spoke with platitudes ripped from the pages of, "There's No I in Team" while ignoring the larger truth he has been acting like solo diva with little regard for others.

At least that was my first take.

But I started thinking about it a bit more and I think Suh was intentionally picking a fight with the press as a motivational tactic.

Let me explain, I flashed back to Jerry Kramer's "Instant Replay" and Lombardi self-induced attitude alterations. In particular, - at least according to Kramer - when Vince wanted to get up for a big game or important practice he would pick a fight with his wife. Vince would pick a fight just to get himself into a bad mood so he could take that mood onto the field.

So for two weeks, young Suh has been a punching bag by the press. Suh been painted as WWF style villain for his Stomp. Then come the car accidents and the press takes him to task for poor driving skills. The local Portland press went so far as to state the Portland cops covered up the cause [[alcohol ) and the fact a lady was injured and threatened to keep her mouth shut.

In short, young Suh is picking a fight with a group he thinks is twisting reality to meet their own agenda. He's picking a fight - like Vince did - to motivate himself for Sunday.

That's my theory ...

[Thruster315]

One of the biggest weaknesses we had coming into the season was the defensive backfield. We were skinny back there, now we're anorexic. We've had wide receivers back there on occasion to plug the dyke, and time is running out for those injuries to mend.

Running back too is an area where pre-season lack-of-depth is coming home to roost. MoMo has been fine if your bar was super low, and that high ankle to Kevin Smith has dimmed what was a pretty picture. Poor guy went from sitting on the couch to NFL speed in an eye-blink and we're seeing what an all-pass offense looks like.

In looking at some stats I noticed we now have 29 sacks on the season. Last year we had 27 after 16 games. Not the best, but we may be looking at the result of having a pure pocket passer combined with an average O-line. Last year Shaun Hill and Drew Stanton were a bit more mobile. Hill rushed 22 times for 130 yards , Drew 18 times for 113 yards and a TD. Thus far this year Stafford has 19 rushes for 68 yards and 2 fumbles.

This is not to say either Hill or Stanton were Tarkingtons, just that Stafford is a classic pro-style pocket denizen.

Of those 29 sacks, I'm thinking almost 10 of them came against the Vikes in two games. Jared Allen had 3 of 5 last week and they had another 5 or 6 in Week Two. Not sure where I'm going with this post, but as FirstandTen, pointed out: we're hurt and we're gassed. Having Suh back will help, having Delmas and Huston back would be a comfort.

According to this Detnews piece, Huston looks like he'll be in for Sunday.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20111...101/112150386/

Depth will be an issue with any team. What blows for our squad it that it hit primarily with one group of the guys. It's not like one or two of the defensive line got dinged [[or suspended) and we had the depth to rotate in reasonably talented guys to fill the gap. Our secondary had to resort to Rashied Davis coming in to playing nickel; thank goodness they haven't been burned terribly at it and Davis has held his own. I'm hoping for a quick recovery from these guys as well. Houston's been playing well and the fact that none of them were put on IR means they'll be back at some point during the season.

I'm sure a lot of you listened to the 97.1 interview with Suh yesterday. It was a big mess. Suh spoke with platitudes ripped from the pages of, "There's No I in Team" while ignoring the larger truth he has been acting like solo diva with little regard for others.

At least that was my first take.

But I started thinking about it a bit more and I think Suh was intentionally picking a fight with the press as a motivational tactic.

Let me explain, I flashed back to Jerry Kramer's "Instant Replay" and Lombardi self-induced attitude alterations. In particular, - at least according to Kramer - when Vince wanted to get up for a big game or important practice he would pick a fight with his wife. Vince would pick a fight just to get himself into a bad mood so he could take that mood onto the field.

So for two weeks, young Suh has been a punching bag by the press. Suh been painted as WWF style villain for his Stomp. Then come the car accidents and the press takes him to task for poor driving skills. The local Portland press went so far as to state the Portland cops covered up the cause [[alcohol ) and the fact a lady was injured and threatened to keep her mouth shut.

In short, young Suh is picking a fight with a group he thinks is twisting reality to meet their own agenda. He's picking a fight - like Vince did - to motivate himself for Sunday.

That's my theory ...

I can't explain Suh. The boy's an enigma at best. He's an amazing talented guy I'm not so sure how many of us would really like to personally like to hang around. He just doesn't let people into his life- even at any level it seems. I get it that he's concerned about his image because that can be a huge financial gain for him, but I'm not so sure he's painting the world's best image for himself at the moment.

He had every opportunity with Valenti & Foster to come across as a sincere human being and I think he missed that mark with that interview. The questions that they lobbed his way were pretty much the sort of questions that any of us, his fan base would like to know. I don't recall any of those questions being leading, badgering or demeaning to Suh. If anything I really think those questions were asked in such a way it gave Suh a chance to explain his side of the story, to clear the air of sorts. Instead I felt not only were Valenti & Foster stonewalled but were admonished for having the gall to ask those questions.

Just come clean with us fans. Be honest and we'll build a temple to worship you in this town, man! Instead we get these politicky sort of replies that were more riddles within riddles. He dodged some of those questions like Muhammad Ali slipping a Gerry Cooney haymaker.

I was a little disappointed.

Great theory though, gnome. It gives me some hope that he's still a caring human being underneath some odd persona or shell. I hope you're right and he can still play up to his talent.

[Thruster315]

After some mulling over, I thought about Suh's position and how he approached some of this attention coming his way. He seems to genuinely want to move forward and ditch what's happened in the last few weeks. Is that wrong of him wanting to do so? I think if that's what his intent was with the quirky interview, then he's done so to a certain extent.

I can almost understand it now. Who would want to be constantly badgered for things done in their past? It's be like the Bill Murray Groundhog Day movie of having to constantly re-living those moments. Now maybe as fans we're still not sure if he gave us adequate answers but does he really owe us that? Are we wanting a piece of his hide for his gaffes? It seems as though the national press does. Are we really asking for an explanation and wanting some remorse from Suh? And what if he goes out and never has any more issues like what's happened in the past; do we really need to re-live this with him? He's moving forward [[not that he has a choice) with his team. Shouldn't we?

Now if he goes out and has more bone-headed moves I say we bust on him but until then- he and his team mates just need to go out and win us fans a few more football games.

[Thruster315]

Speaking of boneheaded plays, this Sunday is going to be the Battle of Penalty Filled Teams. Now I'm HOPING that our Lions don't take the bait and play an amazingly smooth, clean game. I'm also hoping that the NFL Penalty Microscope® will be on the Raiders just as much as it is on our team. If it's a penalty, call it- but be even handed about it. There's nothing that pisses off the players and us fans alike when the hankies are tossed one sided. Consistency is all we're asking for.

[gnome]

I have the flu, feel like hell has set up camp in my spine, with that as a basis this is what I see:

Torture.

I see mistake-free football in the face of a rogue band of miscreants. I see us walking away from 80,000 smack talk professionals. I see us classy and respectable. School marms in the company of a biker gang.

I see no interceptions by Stafford. A pocket tighter than a baby's fist, and coverage as heavy as a hooker's makeup. I see us 3 for 13 in third downs a couple of nationwide hook-ups between Stafford and wide outs, but less than nothing on the ground.

I see Carson Palmer looking like Carson Daily, up all night long with not meaningful talent and no supporting cast. Like Daily he defies logic and hangs on and on. I see Tulloch blowing tackles and what's left of the dbacks blowing coverage.

I see an afternoon of WTF and omg. An afternoon of fevered dreams dashed on the rocky shores Oakland's docks. A mugging. A stabbing. A how did we win 8 games looking this bad.

Torture.

[Kathleen]

Well, it was torturous at times...but the ending was oh, so sweet!!!! Way to go, Lions!!!

[Thruster315]

I have the flu, feel like hell has set up camp in my spine, with that as a basis this is what I see...

Hopefully the Lions victory made you at feel somewhat better, gnome.

I see mistake-free football in the face of a rogue band of miscreants. I see us walking away from 80,000 smack talk professionals. I see us classy and respectable. School marms in the company of a biker gang.

Alas your Miss Cleo turbin was a tad off with this one. Both teams came up with 19 penalties for a total of 158 yards going the wrong way. Nothing too heinous or criminal but some pretty untimely ones for Oakland as opposed to us for once.

I see no interceptions by Stafford. A pocket tighter than a baby's fist, and coverage as heavy as a hooker's makeup.

Bingo! No interceptions by Stafford. We should'a bet the house on this one.

I see us 3 for 13 in third downs a couple of nationwide hook-ups between Stafford and wide outs, but less than nothing on the ground.

8 out of 17 third down conversions by the Lions. None too shabby. And while the rushing was stellar, it kept the Raiders honest. Nice to see Kevin Smith running hard but it was a pisser to see Williams not get that 4th down conversion in the gutter.

I see Carson Palmer looking like Carson Daily, up all night long with not meaningful talent and no supporting cast. Like Daily he defies logic and hangs on and on. I see Tulloch blowing tackles and what's left of the dbacks blowing coverage.

It wasn't a great tackling game by any stretch, but we held when called upon especially late. We didn't implode and make Carson Palmer look like the second coming of Joe Montana.

I see an afternoon of WTF and omg. An afternoon of fevered dreams dashed on the rocky shores Oakland's docks. A mugging. A stabbing. A how did we win 8 games looking this bad.

Yeah, there's still plenty of WTF and OMGs but they were from the Detroit faithful. And the dreams that were dashed were the property of Raider Nation.

Torture.

That's what we expect as longstanding Lions fans, but not this week. We did alright and hopefully it'll add some confidence to this plucky bunch.

But what an odd ass week in the NFL:

-Colts win. Detroit will still own the 0-16 record
-Packers lose [[those bastards from the '72 Dolphins get to crack open a bottle of champagne in another team not matching their record) and this could have implications on the last game for us versus the Pack at Lambeau.
-Bears & Giants go south. Less competition for us and the wild card berth.
-and the Mighty Tebow is humbled. Hooray.

Someone hand me a towel. I'm still sweating from the excitement of our game. That 98 yard drive with Stafford and Johnson hooking up like long lost lovers constantly was a thing of beauty. Someone hand me a cigarette; I need to calm down from that Lions butter.

[gnome]

It is with humble joy I crawl back on scabby knees to beg forgiveness. Forgiveness for doubting the Blue and Silver will-to-win.

Tremendous 2:11. Outstanding play calling and execution.

The Turbin was off.

[gnome]

That 11-5 prediction came before practices even started ... And well before LeShore became le sore with a blown Achilles. I believe I revised my prediction to 10 and 6 after preseason was completed.

Not being a welcher, just want to check with the old posts.

[Thruster315]

That 11-5 prediction came before practices even started ... And well before LeShore became le sore with a blown Achilles. I believe I revised my prediction to 10 and 6 after preseason was completed.

Not being a welcher, just want to check with the old posts.

Regardless whether you had the pre-season pick of 11-5 or the amended 10-6, you've been pretty ballsy with your pics and can discuss this team pretty intelligently. You bring it on strong and just don't rant for rant's sake. You're passionate for this team and why wouldn't you be if you're posting on this thread? Every week, win or lose you talk discuss this team intelligently; you're not some Johnny-Come-Lately fresh meat on the Bandwagon nor are you some hit-and-run with flippant weak comments.

I'm glad for guys like you and so many of the others here who have the Lions passion week after week. Regardless of what the Lions end up with at the end of the season for a record, playoffs or not- I think we can all agree they've made some pretty big Calvin Johnson-esque strides out of the box. They've improved drastically and they're not perfect but they're a helluva lot better than they've been. STFU and let's all savor it.

[Downriviera]

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Ndamukong Suh, for blocking Janikowski's field goal attempt. I've been tortured for years watching replays of Dempsey's kick beating the Lion's. To have to spend the rest of my life watching replays of Janikowski beating us would have been a living hell. All is forgiven in my book.

[Thruster315]

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Ndamukong Suh, for blocking Janikowski's field goal attempt. I've been tortured for years watching replays of Dempsey's kick beating the Lion's. To have to spend the rest of my life watching replays of Janikowski beating us would have been a living hell. All is forgiven in my book.

Not wanting to spoil the good vibe going here about Suh getting a hand on the field goal attempt by any means, but even if Janikowski would've gotten the kick off cleanly- we'll never know if he would've made it or not.

Odds are he was going to have that kick blocked or missed though. The percentage of making it from that unreal distance would've been astronomical; it was going to be an NFL record. In order for him to get the distance, the trajectory would've been super low which is ideal for a guy like Suh to swat out of the air. I even read somewhere that they even had Calvin Johnson leaping up in the middle to block that kick. And even if he had gotten the kick through, what were the odds he was going to be accurate? It very well could've fell short, gone wide left, wide right or even hit the post.

We'll never know and quite frankly I don't want to know. What happened has happened and it will be forever in the NFL records as a W for our team.

[Downriviera]

Not wanting to spoil the good vibe going here about Suh getting a hand on the field goal attempt by any means, but even if Janikowski would've gotten the kick off cleanly- we'll never know if he would've made it or not.

Odds are he was going to have that kick blocked or missed though. The percentage of making it from that unreal distance would've been astronomical; it was going to be an NFL record. In order for him to get the distance, the trajectory would've been super low which is ideal for a guy like Suh to swat out of the air. I even read somewhere that they even had Calvin Johnson leaping up in the middle to block that kick. And even if he had gotten the kick through, what were the odds he was going to be accurate? It very well could've fell short, gone wide left, wide right or even hit the post.

We'll never know and quite frankly I don't want to know. What happened has happened and it will be forever in the NFL records as a W for our team.

Everything you mention is true, and many of the same things were said before the Dempsey kick. But remember, we're talking about the Detroit Lions here. As longtime fans we have seen many crazy things happen to defeat us. Janikowski has an amazing leg. If the Raiders didn't think he could make it they would have opted for the hail mary. I was remiss in not thanking the entire unit that played a part in stopping the kick. Having Calvin in there was a great idea, and I think he should be out there for every fg attempt against us. But you're right, we'll never know and it doesn't matter now. But everytime in the future they show that Dempsey kick they should show Suh's block too.

[kenp]

Two weeks in a row the fickle finger of fate was on our side. Maybe things are changing. In 1970 against New Orleans we had them beat and that f'ing Dempsey kicks a 63 yarder to beat us. It was the same thing Sunday, a 64 yarder for the win, wow what a great ending.
Our time management in the last minute was not great, we get the ball down to the 7 with a minute left and run willy nilly down the field in a panic and unorganized get a play off and get a holding call. Thankfully we scored but we left to much time on the clock. With their kicker they have a great shot at making a long field goal. And then the celebration after the TD, stupid.
Its all good though, great comeback and win. Thankfully Palmer missed a couple gimmie's and our lack of a run game didnt kill us. Lions played with heart, give them a lot of credit. Geez we were down to Wendling at safety.
San Diego game will be huge, lets get a win!!

[Thruster315]

Our time management in the last minute was not great, we get the ball down to the 7 with a minute left and run willy nilly down the field in a panic and unorganized get a play off and get a holding call. Thankfully we scored but we left to much time on the clock. With their kicker they have a great shot at making a long field goal. And then the celebration after the TD, stupid.

I didn't have an issue with the clock management because we really couldn't control the clock at the end of the game. We were out of time outs by the time we marched the ball down the field on that last drive.; we used them all up on the Raider possession prior to getting the ball back. "Leaving too much time on the clock" really wasn't an issue we could control and quite simply I'd much rather score, take the lead and trust our defense to stopping the Raiders.

The penalty? Yeah... never a good time to get one when we're driving and near the red zone.

And while I quietly giggled years ago when Al Davis took a kicker with their first round pick, I can see how he can be a great weapon at moments just like yesterday's. In close games, that little pudgy dude can still bang one in from a crazy distance like that. Janikowski was standing on HIS 40 yard line about to launch that puppy yesterday. Scary weapon to have indeed.

What was wrong with the TD celebration? Did I miss something? I didn't see anything disrespectful nor did I see any flags being tossed for excessive celebrating. I'd much rather see our team celebrating than the other team whooping it up at our expense.

[kenp]

My only issue was the running up to the line with a minute to go, rushing was a negative at that point. A minute is a lifetime in the NFL and the Raiders got a field goal to end the first half in a similar manner. As far as the celebration we had a least 6 guys layed out next to the end zone, they have been calling that excessive multiple person celebration this year. We get a 15 yarder for that would have been enforced on the kick off. You have to realize when a team has a kicker like that its important to keep him off the field. We lose that game on a game ending field goal, and especially if there was a celebration penalty, we all would be playing monday morning QB.

[Thruster315]

My only issue was the running up to the line with a minute to go, rushing was a negative at that point. A minute is a lifetime in the NFL and the Raiders got a field goal to end the first half in a similar manner.

Part of that rush to get to the line could also be to keep the defense scrambling too. There seemed to be quite a bit of no-huddle towards the end that kept the Raider defense guessing. I think I'd still much rather rush up there and take that chance in the end zone as opposed to slowly walking up to the line and losing to the clock running out.

As far as the celebration we had a least 6 guys layed out next to the end zone, they have been calling that excessive multiple person celebration this year. We get a 15 yarder for that would have been enforced on the kick off. You have to realize when a team has a kicker like that its important to keep him off the field. We lose that game on a game ending field goal, and especially if there was a celebration penalty, we all would be playing monday morning QB.

I see your point with the "celebration" in the end zone. It was a big goofy pile-on of players, right? Now I'm not one to get into the head of the goofy refs and their interpretation of excessive celebrations, but I thought it was okay because it was a celebration amongst themselves and not meant to show off or show anyone up. That big gathering/ group hug of guys was fine. I'm still surprised how guys like Scheffler get away with some of his theatrics but I generally don't have too much of an issue with some celebrating. The rule for too much celebrating is way too vague to chance the refs tossing the hanky.

But correct me if I'm wrong now, didn't one of the Fox commentators mention something about how the Lions celebrated in their sideline/ bench area as opposed to the end zone? I think he also mentioned how it was actually okay and was practically approving of it.

NFL = No Fun League at times.

[gnome]

I remember that Tom Dempsey kick like it was yesterday.

nightmare, on an endless loop, with those two refs looking up, then at eachother before raising their arms in dual surprise.

[kenp]

Enough of my rant on the last minute, I guess being a Lions fan we are in a constant battle with pessimism. I will say that Sunday night I was in an unusual happy mood and most of it due to our big win. Now we have to finish it off at home and clinch and get to 10 wins. It looks like everyone will be available including Delmas. We are going to need all healthy DB's and safety's we can find and get Young and Fairly active on the D-lie again.
Its gonna be another close game, Go Lions!!!

[gnome]

Enough of my rant on the last minute, I guess being a Lions fan we are in a constant battle with pessimism.

Rant? Rant? You call that a rant? My rants have cleared the board for a week, no amount of Lysol could clean up some of those toxic spills. Rant. Heck, I could rant about rants, I could rant about the lack of rant worthy rants. Dom's stylings come close to the type of old-school rants that should serve as clear motivation.

Our Leos being rant worthy is a good sign, at long last we expect more. More.

That's a good thing.

Don't forget to pick up your gift bundle over on Discuss Detroit. No telling who might get them.

[Thruster315]

Our Leos being rant worthy is a good sign, at long last we expect more. More.

That's a good thing.

The Lions playing meaningful football in December? Damn... someone pinch me. And if your rants are a part of the reason this team of ours is doing well, keep ranting.