Baker's Keyboard Lounge - Bankruptcy Sale

[Toolbox]

It probably doesn't hurt that Dirty Dog's owner has a very deep bankroll. OTOH - she also is a huge financial backer of the Detroit Jazz Festival every year.

That little clothing company in her family might provide a bit of float.

[bailey]

Bringing up racism I am not saying more white people should go to Bakers I am simply pointing out that the Cliff Bells is populated by people[[mostly white) that don't know much about the music being played there and that the historic fans of jazz[[a lot of blacks, et,al) that once went to Bakers don't anymore.

As many have attested, Baker's did not suffer from a difficulty attracting a crowd. In fact it's often difficult to get into. I'm just having a hard time understanding why race was even brought into the conversation.

[Original63]

As others have stated before, I always thought that Bakers is suffering from mismanagement. The crowds seem good and the kitchen is always busy.
I think that fresh ideas and more business acumen would make a world of difference. Also maybe there are too many debts for the current owner to escape.

Any how I will be there a couple more times before they close.

[1KielsonDrive]

No one ever understands the bar/restaurant/club business - unless you're in it, and even that's no guarantee. Just because you lived near Baker's, happened to notice the parking lot was full as you occasionally walked/drove by, and presumed it was packed to the brim, is hardly enough to know what their overhead is. I've heard people who walked into a place that's busy, proclaim it a 'gold mine'. They might've been there for a half and hour. They probably weren't there the other 8, 10, 12 hours a day when the place was slow or empty. Presumptions that Baker's is mismanaged because they're having problems keeping the doors open are just that - presumptions. I'd suggest that Detroit property tax alone, amongst the highest around, is enough to hobble their efforts to operate. This is not a simple problem and I don't know the answers, I'm just suggesting that if you like the place, give them the benefit of the doubt and attend whenever you can. These are very difficult economic times. I talk to bar/restaurant/club owners on a regular basis, including quite a few in this past week. Look around, they're suffering the same problems as the rest of Michigan, the US, and the world. It's the economy, STUPID. [[not meant personally about you Genesyxx).

[1KielsonDrive]

Original63, whatever your doubts about Baker's are, you're going there. That's one way to help solve the problem. If you like it, support it. No guarantees, but you are doing your part. You'll at least be able to say I supported Baker's and I have these great memories of Baker's, if in fact they do close.

[1KielsonDrive]

To be fair, there are definitely racial/social divides in the clientel at these three separate places.
Whenever I've gone to Baker's it has been a decidedly mixed but predominately older black patronage, but definitely mixed.
Cliff Bell's has always been overwhelmingly white in my experience.
I've never been to Dirty Dog Jazz Cafe but given the neighborhood...and...well I google imaged it and couldn't have found a much better picture:
http://multimedia.detnews.com/pix/bl...Guralinick.jpg
Hey! There's a black guy - the server! It looks like the Republican National Convention in there. Bahaha.

Anyway, done throwing gasoline on the fire. I hope to God Baker's thrives under new ownership. I do also hope that more people who might not otherwise hang out there...go try it out.

Thank you for your comments. Quite accurate I believe.

[Johnlodge]

Just because you lived near Baker's, happened to notice the parking lot was full as you occasionally walked/drove by, and presumed it was packed to the brim,

Sounded like the experiences given on this thread were first hand, I know mine were. And not isolated incidents. Couldn't there possibly be something to their theory, as well? How did our firsthand accounts turn into passing glances while walking/driving by? I've been to Baker's many times.

[everglade carl]

To get the obligatory name dropping out of the way, I've known Paul, the owner of Cliff Bells, Gretchen, the owner of the Dirty Dog, and John, the owner of Bakers for going on over 6 years and have had conversations with them about the business and clientele.

Firstly, none of the three places are thriving. They all own Jazz clubs, which are in themselves hard to sustain. Gretchen has her Carhartt dough to back up her venture if things get really hairy, but Paul has been has been meticulously been holding things together on a budgetary thread, while adding a kitchen, sound system, and other advancements. John has a unique problem.

I am to understand that they had a faulty water meter that had been giving them a break in water prices for years. The city discovered its mistake and promptly gave them a check for $25K. They have been reeling since to catch up.

I always thought that, coming to this inevitable point, the city should step in and either, forgive their debt because the unusual circumstances, or designate it as a monument, and provide funds for its upkeep. It is as much of a piece of Detroit history as any skyscraper and is one of the oldest Jazz clubs in the world. It stood there since 1939 when it's neighbors across 8 mile were farms. In a city with a rich jazz history, it is Detroit's portrait set to our music.

Race is irrelevant to these jazz club owners. They couldn't care less. What they are all looking for, however, is the 30-50 year old white-collar professional. This is the person that brings a date, buys dinner and a nice glass of wine, typically acts courteous and tips, and has friends who also have money.

...and ultimately, keeps the jazz club in business. I wish the best for Baker's and hope something can be done to preserve it, for more than any other reason, to provide good jazz musicians with work so they can hang on in this quagmire we call an economy.

[REL]

Perhaps I can provide a quick, easy answer directly from the horse's mouth:

Not enough room in the house. John and I talked last year about business. He hoped to expand, saying that people didn't care as much for the cramped booths [[I call them cozy) and he simply couldn't bring in enough people with the existing space to pay for top talent and operating expenses. He tried acquiring the caterer's space next door, his only hope, but they kept refusing to sell. He said if he didn't get the space, he'd probably go out of business within a year or so.

[softailrider]

As many have attested, Baker's did not suffer from a difficulty attracting a crowd. In fact it's often difficult to get into. I'm just having a hard time understanding why race was even brought into the conversation.

I agree about the difficult to get into, I'd also add something about rude doormen / wait staff. Rude to the point of thinking " why am I here spending money and getting abuse?"

[1KielsonDrive]

I stand by post. You may elect to consider it a challenge to your veracity, I used comments posted to make my point. Nothing personal. Just passing extensive knowledge of Baker's over the years, though I've hardly been in recent years. Of the few times I've been to Baker's in recent years, it was six of one - a half dozen of the other, quite busy and very slow. But the street was always full of cars. My larger point remains the same; you generally have to know the business to understand what is really happening.

[1KielsonDrive]

Thank you for the very nice post and some 'insider' information, so to speak. When you have a relationship with the owner you often hear and see things that wouldn't be known otherwise. Which is basically what I said in my previous post.

[1KielsonDrive]

Perhaps I can provide a quick, easy answer directly from the horse's mouth:

Not enough room in the house. John and I talked last year about business. He hoped to expand, saying that people didn't care as much for the cramped booths [[I call them cozy) and he simply couldn't bring in enough people with the existing space to pay for top talent and operating expenses. He tried acquiring the caterer's space next door, his only hope, but they kept refusing to sell. He said if he didn't get the space, he'd probably go out of business within a year or so.

Thank you. More pieces of the puzzle coming together. Another peek into the business. There's more to it than appears on the surface. I've always called Baker's cozy, too. That's the upside to my way of thinking. I've sat 3 feet away from Betty Carter, Joe Pass, Mose Allison, Yusef Latif, Tommy Flanagan, Kenny Burrell and too many others to mention. I've smoked joints with Groove Holmes, Bobby Ward and a few others. Where else could you do this? Baker's was like home away from home. I have never been treated rudely there, though I'm not doubting those who have.
There, I've dropped a few names. More name dropping to come.

[1KielsonDrive]

I agree about the difficult to get into, I'd also add something about rude doormen / wait staff. Rude to the point of thinking " why am I here spending money and getting abuse?"

Though I've never experienced this at Baker's, I know the feeling and have reacted in the same way at other times and places.

[JohnnyFreddy]

is this happening? Granted, I have not been to Bakers in several yrs but it seems to me in the past they had good crowds_ I am guessing not so much now.

Probably no one talks about it but you have Cliff Bells with a predominately white clientele consisting of pseudo jazz listeners seemingly going well and then you have Bakers a historic mostly black clientele club where the true lovers of the music are old and dieing off.......hopefully something good happens....oh yeah there is the dirty dog which is also seemingly doing well but with deep pockets to keep it going.

Yeah, 'cause black people are so 'real', and white people so.....'pseudo' !!!!!

[Jimg]

The current Baker's mgt has pissed off quite a few folks, judging by what I've been told and the posts above. I have close friends who have had negative experiences at Baker's, and they are longtime music supporters.
I have to say I've worked with John on several projects, mc'd at Baker's many times, and we've always gotten on very well. I like the guy.
As far as the Race thing goes, I've never felt anything from Baker's staff or John but positive vibes and respect.
I have no idea what "pseudo jazz listeners" are, perhaps I'll do a survey next time I catch some sounds and see if any are present. Although I'd probably get a pseudo answer.

[downtownguy]

so... Cliff bells and Dirty Dog can make it work, but Bakers cant.....and it is somehow because of racism?

Geez, it was a cultural observation, not an accusation of racism. Chill, Bailey!

[blindowl]

I'd like to add, in the 70's, Baker's was a good intimate setting to see some great acts, to this day are memorable.
I saw McCoy Tyner, Elvin Jones' band and others and it was an experience.

[English]

I agree about the difficult to get into, I'd also add something about rude doormen / wait staff. Rude to the point of thinking " why am I here spending money and getting abuse?"

Yes. I've told my Baker's story here, so I won't rehash it. It remains the most humiliated I've ever felt in an establishment. Yet I've been willing to give it another chance since they've been having trouble [[which is more consideration than they gave me 9 years ago), but with a plethora of entertainment choices and limited time, I haven't made it back.

While I appreciate their storied history, there is a way to do business, and there is a way to lose business. Before my incident, I was one of those who ate their soul food lunch and dinner during the day and early evening. It was one of my favorite places to go, and I often took guests along with me. But you can't treat people horribly them and expect them to fork over their cash in a free society. My experiences there only make me wonder if other Detroit businesses that closed down had trouble because of basic customer service issues.

[Gannon]

I cannot remember why I stopped going to Baker's.

My fondest memory, when discovering jazz in the early-80s, was watching Alexander Zonjic's technicians tear it up...when the house buzzed as Earl Klugh walked in with a guy I later learned was Bob James.

I crossed paths with Earl later, since one of my old Tech Hifi cronies actually took guitar lessons from him. We'd go to a bar called The Place on Woodward at about 12 1/2 mile to see a beautiful woman named Indya sing...and every time Earl would come in, he'd beeline to our booth to sit with Steve.

It was a bit overwhelming to me, but he was the most soft-spoken and humble gentlemen I'd ever met. I remember a little speaking impediment and the kindest eyes. And when he'd play...OMG...everything else fell away.



Cheers, may this place return to its former glory...it IS an institution. Although, time and again they've been detroyed in this town by huge egos run astray. It doesn't sound as if that is the problem here, though.

[everglade carl]

Baker's has had "customer service" issues since John took over. I'm glad he stepped in for Clarence and saved it, but even though I've gotten along well with John personally, I had many "disappointing" experiences there as a musician and customer.

This is common amongst some clubs, but the waitstaff would consistently push for more having another drink, many times while I was still working on the one at hand, and I have to say their drinks were always weak. In the past, I've also gotten attitude for not purchasing food. Loving Jazz, and going there to hear good bands, I found myself many times being distracted by rude, noisy customers and pestering waitstaff.

As a musician, that is where I found more questionable treatment. Again, John kept musicians working and a jazz club open so he deserves all the credit in the world for that. From day one, however, Baker's has disrespected us by not providing a green room. Clarence had one, but John needed a place to store the original Baker's piano, and from what I understand, to either make or expand the kitchen. It might not seem like a big deal to non-musicians, but having a silent room to chill, prepare music for gigs, or just to have a place to sit down on busy nights is crucial. The routine for musicians was to have to go out front and sit on the concrete slabs. It was discouraged to grab a table to sit unless it was with a paying customer. He had 10 years to get that straight, but it never changed.

As a non-drinker on gigs, I usually order a pop or two. Baker's was the only place that insisted on charging musicians for soft drinks; no discount- 2 bucks a pop. That was the only club, jazz or otherwise that would do that.

There are also some personal issues that many of us have dealt with, but this is not to forum for that.

It may seem small in the big picture, but playing somewhere where musicians get respect has a far-reaching effect on word-of-mouth. Like any community, musicians talk, and in places like this, will not go the extra mile to encourage others to come or even hang out after their gigs. It's always a treat for a jazz fan to hang around on the last set to hear good musicians come to sit in after their gigs are over. It is customary to comped the cover charge, usually anywhere- but Baker's. They didn't foster a positive vibe with a lot of the musicians around here, and as a result, makes the gig a drag, and it shouldn't be that way. Gigs that are drags are ones that demand a stricter dress code, playing music most of time that we don't want to play, dealing with annoying managers, coordinators, or patrons, but ones that we are usually compensated decently for. Baker's did not compensate, especially to the level of talent that played there. These were people that were first-call hires for major acts and toured with the best pop, jazz, and otherwise groups. We all had to sit on the concrete slab- which is fun to do in winter, incidentally.

Before this turns into too much of a rant, to reiterate my point, Baker's is a gem of Detroit's history. With that disclaimer said, I hope the new owners treat the musicians and customers with a little more respect and politeness. Otherwise it will be, "*sigh* I have to go play Baker's tonight", instead of, "I can't wait to hit at Baker's tonight!". Even though most of us will try our best every night, feeling good about the gig can go a long way for our fragile musician psyches, not to mention making that much more entertaining for the audience.

Good luck new owners- you are assuming a lot of responsibility.

[piczka]

Could the sparsity of well renowned jazz musicians have anything to do with the constant threat of closure and insolvency? How many jazz musicians are there now with a following like Thelonius Monk, Miles Davis or Quartet Tres Bien? The world class performers are dwindling. I would stand in line for a week and put up with rude waiters to see Ahmad Jamal if he were alive. Yes I am Detroiter and proud of it. Have been going to Baker's since I was a kid. Better days are coming for Baker's and the city. "Make haste slowly".