Crazier and crazier-- Congresswoman and others shot

[Jimaz]

From 2:44 into Introduction: Jared Loughner:

If I define terrorist then a terrorist is a person who employs terror or terrorism, especially as a political weapon.

I define terrorist.

Thus, a terrorist is a person who employs terror or terrorism, especially as a political weapon.

If you call me a terrorist then the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem.
You call me a terrorist.
Thus, the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem.

That's just creepy.

[Chuck La Chez]

I am sorry but how many of them applauded when Sarah [[Queen Tea)... drew up that map... I am trying not to generalize... I know all Tea Part members are not responsible... but how many didnt protest the target posters...

Why does it matter? When making big sales, as part of the fun, I do six-shooters with my hands like a kid. It's not my fault in any way, shape or form if one of my co-workers go shooting customers for real.

It sounds to me like the community is at fault. He's griping about mind control and no one picked up on this?

[Ravine]

Oldredfordette, I snapped at you, and I sincerely apologize.

I was, and am, disturbed by the incident, and while I stand behind the point I was trying to make, the fact is that I know, inside of myself, that I was snapping at you, and at a moment such as this one, people like me snapping at people like you just raises the tension level.

[Ravine]

Can't believe that the local sheriff just publicly stated his belief that there was someone, other than the shooter, on-site and involved with the incident.
He then proceeded to not comment on things which would have been safer material, on which to comment, than his somewhat stunning announcement.
Hey, we think someone else was involved!! But, sorry, for security reasons, we don't want to say anything about that!!

[canuck]

The guy is obviously a cracked nut.

You cant jump the gun and infer some kind of plot.

But I'm with Ravine on the Talking Heads issue; I think the Becks and Limbaughs are rabid and there will always be folks like them who manage to attract the malcontents. Their agenda isnt personal so much as the product of all the wishes of the business class projected as personal drama. It is hard to find commercial radio stations with political thinkers rising above the level of Rolaids/Preparation H/Gold for Cash advertizing.

[Chuck La Chez]

Beck?!? He must be the nicest and most sincere guy on TV or radio. I learn something everytime I catch his show.

[Jimaz]

PLONK!10 characters

[canuck]

Beck?!? He must be the nicest and most sincere guy on TV or radio. I learn something everytime I catch his show.

Different stokes [[sic) for different strokes!

[Chuck La Chez]

Different stokes [[sic) for different strokes!

Sure but if you're going to call someone "rabid", they should probably do something extreme besides teaching history?!?

[canuck]

I would rather get that from a historian rather than a propped-up pamphleteer

[Chuck La Chez]

I would rather get that from a historian rather than a propped-up pamphleteer

I don't have the time or money to go back to school for the history I missed.

[Ravine]

Still, the power of words is considerable, and just as I regret my snappage at ORF, I think if the bucket is full of ugly liquid, every drop that goes into it is part of the problem.

And, I just really gotta believe that the local sheriff is, even as we forum, getting the "I can't believe you said that, what the fuck is wrong with you" speech.

[checkraisej]

Ravine, did you and ORF have a conversation that is no longer here?

[gazhekwe]

Thank you for the on site view, Tom. It is a sickening thing for all of us. I am happy John Boehner came out with the statement that an attack on one who serves is an attack on all who serve their country. It really is an attack on all of us who are responsible citizens and residents as well. At this time, we must dig for the love that is in us all, and thrust away hate.

[gazhekwe]

Post 6 and 16. I agree with ORF's statement, but she did use the incendiary word terrorist. I think Ravine is going in the direction that fiery words only breed more fire. Still there has to be a way to express shock and anger without causing more trouble.

It is true that we have no idea if the shooter even knew about the so-called hit list or ever watched the opinion shows on either side of the spectrum. At this point we are outraged without a known target. But I think many of us have been afraid, since the day Sarah Palin happily whipped a crowd into a killing frenzy about Obama, that something like this would happen.

[canuck]

I don't have the time or money to go back to school for the history I missed.

Yes, I realize that can be a problem. I am only suggesting there are sounder sources for historical perspectives than a radio announcer turned glorified editorialist. By all means, keep listening to him and try to get other opinions and views on the questions he assesses. The guy has a pre-programmed agenda. His talent lies in the delivery of this agenda. Notice how these types of so-called editorialists profess the need to protect values, and pretend the liberals are out to destroy the national fiber. Big business is always seen as an extension of Joe the Plumber's ambition and never his greed, always upholding freedom not standing in the way of progress.

[gibran]

I am sorry that I am upset ... I just went to Sarah's Target list and this is why I get angry with the tea party... while Glen and the likes do not instruct people to do things that is an individual repsonsibilty...



We’re paying particular attention to those House members who voted in favor of Obamacare and represent districts that Senator John McCain and I carried during the 2008 election. Three of these House members are retiring – from Arkansas’s 2nd district, Indiana’s 8th district, and Tennessee’s 6th district – but we’ll be working to make sure that those who replace them are Commonsense Conservatives. The others are running for re-election, and we’re going to hold them accountable for this disastrous Obamacare vote. They are: Ann Kirkpatrick [[AZ-1), Harry E. Mitchell [[AZ-5), Gabrielle Giffords [[AZ-8), John Salazar [[CO-3), Betsy Markey [[CO-4). Allen Boyd [[FL-2), Suzanne M. Kosmas [[FL-24), Baron P. Hill [[IN-9), Earl Pomeroy [[ND-AL), Charlie Wilson [[OH-6), John Boccieri [[OH-16), Kathy Dahlkemper [[PA-3), Christopher Carney [[PA-10), John M. Spratt, Jr. [[SC-5), Tom Perriello [[VA-5), Alan B. Mollohan [[WV-1), and Nick J. Rahall II [[WV-3).

We’ll aim for these races and many others. This is just the first salvo in a fight to elect people across the nation who will bring common sense to Washington. Please go to sarahpac.com and join me in the fight.

Stand tall, America. Real change is coming

[Chuck La Chez]

Notice how these types of so-called editorialists profess the need to protect values, and pretend the liberals are out to destroy the national fiber.

That's not quite accurate. He claims that both parties have encroached on what is our natural right to a sustainable degree of freedom and points out the progressive influence in both parties that has reached beyond what the Founders intended.

He does this by teaching our history.

Gibran,
Obama talked about his campaign. Campaign is a term of war. Obama started it.

I'm being facetious but it demonstrates how ridiculous the fighting words are.

[Gistok]

I don't have the time or money to go back to school for the history I missed.

Ummm.... what's wrong with going to the library? Although my minor was history, I learned a lot about other topics via reading books.... or the internet [[although one has to be able to separate opinions/commentators from news and information).

But to depend on your history from Glen Beck, that's definitely one of the most piss poor way to learn that there is.... Check out this exchange with Barbara Walters...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_205845.html

Beck?!? He must be the nicest and most sincere guy on TV or radio. I learn something everytime I catch his show.

Sure, if you like your history with a slant... just look at the way he twisted the story about Ms. Walters.

The man doesn't even bother with the messy task of verification....

[canuck]

What is it about the founders that make them such a treasure? The white wigs and the tricorns?
To me any great document whether it be the Bhagavat Gita or the Magna Carta represents a milestone in human thought and deed, but it is not worth hanging up your hat on this stuff and expect magical effects from them. They are meant to be reinterpreted and revised. You could build a bridge the way they built them 230 some-odd years ago but you wont, unless you dont know better.

When he talks of both parties, he is of course making sure the GOP is held to account for crimes they might commit against these freedoms. The Tea Party agenda backed-up by a lobby to offset what was perceived by big business as a possible left turn in politics when Obama smashed the Republican representation. That lobby has so far been pretty successful in countering the wave.

[Chuck La Chez]

Ummm.... what's wrong with going to the library?

But to depend on your history from Glen Beck, that's definitely one of the most piss poor way to learn that there is...

Indiscriminantly pulling books off library shelves or getting librarian recommendations had me reading worthless garbage for most of my life.

I don't think Beck's a bad way to learn history. He always cites sources and, in my experience, I've found a number of books he recommends to be great.

This View clip demo's the Beck that I like:



I believe that this is the portion of that interview you're referring to:



He does comedy on his radio show. I don't understand why they made such an issue out of it. When he said he doesn't check facts, it appears to me that he meant that in his role as comedian/commentator because at 6:45, he says he does check facts and he was trying to talk in the context of the skit in question.

What is it about the founders that make them such a treasure?

They were extremely, extremely intelligent and educated [[self and formally) and their experiences gave them a very unique perspective on freedom. They came to age during the Enlightenment, had personal experience with monarchical rule and the nearly polar opposite, the Articles of Confederatopm. They were God-fearing people who cared about what posterity would receive and would think of them. They formulated the blueprints for a government that could rule a country that never stopped growing, if we stuck to that blueprint.

They are meant to be reinterpreted and revised.

Human nature doesn't change. Therefore, the Constitution doesn't need reinterpreting.

The Constitution allows for revision via amendments.

[TKshreve]

Indiscriminantly pulling books off library shelves or getting librarian recommendations had me reading worthless garbage for most of my life.

I don't think Beck's a bad way to learn history. He always cites sources and, in my experience, I've found a number of books he recommends to be great.

This View clip demo's the Beck that I like:



I believe that this is the portion of that interview you're referring to:




He does comedy on his radio show. I don't understand why they made such an issue out of it. When he said he doesn't check facts, it appears to me that he meant that in his role as comedian/commentator because at 6:45, he says he does check facts and he was trying to talk in the context of the skit in question.


They were extremely, extremely intelligent and educated [[self and formally) and their experiences gave them a very unique perspective on freedom. They came to age during the Enlightenment, had personal experience with monarchical rule and the nearly polar opposite, the Articles of Confederatopm. They were God-fearing people who cared about what posterity would receive and would think of them. They formulated the blueprints for a government that could rule a country that never stopped growing, if we stuck to that blueprint.



Human nature doesn't change. Therefore, the Constitution doesn't need reinterpreting.

The Constitution allows for revision via amendments.

Not right of The View chicks to ambush him. You know they had their predisposed opinions of him before he came onto the show. They are no holier.

I picked up a book by Beck which I never finished. He uses odd tangents and obscure facts to formulate his overall messages. He is well spoken and has some very passionate and patriotic viewpoints that I align with, however...... I do not believe for one second that he holds the same whistle blower finger towards the GOP that he does the Libs.

But he speaks very clearly about a broken system rife with corruption, self interests and tainted beauracracy. His life test will be whether he uses his gift of knowledge and speaking to better this country or to spin ideas to conform to his sponsorship [[FOX).

[Downrivergal]

I am a Michigan expat living in Arizona. I am so excited to be moving back to Michigan in a few months and out of this cesspool of hate that I am currently living in. I have lived here almost 6 years [[moved for a job) and I have never really been accepted by natives, they think we are invaders. Most of the friends I have made are from other states.
That being said, I am really not surprised at what happened today... you can just imagine the vitriolic radio talk shows here... and everywhere I look some nimrod has a handgun strapped to his belt. Not that I am against gun ownership, I was raised with them. My dad was an avid hunter and my stepfather was a Detroit U/C cop who had 2-3 guns on him at all times. But its just the mindset here, *I have a gun, I am a big boy now, and I am going to take it to the grocery store with me*
I am very very sad about what happened today... I like Gabrielle Giffords, we are around the same age, and I regretted not being in her district and unable to vote for her because I would have for sure. I like what she stands for. I hope she pulls through.
Among the dead is a 9 year old girl... she had just been elected to her school student council and her neighbor invited her to go to the town hall meeting becasue she though the young lady would be interested in it. I am sad for her, for her family, and her classmates who now have to wrap their young minds about what happened to their friend today. Too young, too young.
The gunman was very disturbed, I am sure most of you have read about some of his ranting and raving via youtube et al. I am curious if he had been serviced by CPSA, the behavioral health entity that serves Pima county...AZ has cut services from CPSA and Magellan [[serves Phoenix and the rest of Maricopa county) repeatedly until there is barely nothing left. There is just not enough to go around.... for my old job [[now my Saturday job) I cant tell you how many times I have taken a call from some poor soul that was on the brink of killing themselves... when I would ask if they called CPSA or Magellan [[depending on where they lived) they would invariably tell me that they were told there weren't any crisis teams available. My only recourse would be to call 911 and patch them in.
So we shall see how all of this unfolds. You can bet there will be a sharp downturn in public appearances by pols without security.

[Downrivergal]

UMC is a fantastic facility, with world class physicians. It was a good thing she was transported there

[gnome]

whoa up here guys. This guy was/is a disturbed person, and disturbed people do disturbing things.

This has as much to do with Sarah Palin as Glenn Beck does impersonating a history prof: just cuz you say they are connected, doesn't mean they are.

In fact, with what little facts there are, it seems this disturbed man's favorite book was the Communist Manifesto; making him more of a leftist ... for those who need labels to know what is wrong or right.

With this guy being a Leftist, the conclusion could be drawn that Ms Giffords was shot because she was a conservative Blue Dog Democrat. Making her a target of the leftist fringe who are unhappy that the Blue Dogs who have restrained the promised Obama/Pelosi reforms.

See how that lumping-together and guilty-by-association thing works?

What you should be mad about is the state of mental health ... this guy in Arizona is the same kind of fellow who killed Kevin Johnson in Lafayette Park. This is a very unbalanced man. Not a right or left wing fanatic; a crazy fucker.

Anyone who preaches differently is grinding their personal political ax; while using the blood of innocents to whet the blade.