Crazier and crazier-- Congresswoman and others shot

[gazhekwe]

Gannon, Loughner had an extended magazine capable of holding up to 33 shots. He had emptied it and was trying to reload.

[Chuck La Chez]

Chuck,

Gang up on me, I don't care. That comment was made AFTER he inserted his incorrect understanding upon me, MAKING him sorry.

Thanks for playing along!

An ad hominem is an ad hominem regardless of your excuses.

[Gannon]

Thanks, Gazhekwe. I couldn't find anything on it on-line.

Wow. Yeah, that's the one for the fully automatic model. I've only seen one, and it was too dorky and awkward to be useful for anything OTHER than killing a group of people at once.

Not easy to pop out and handle full. I'm amazed the guy is still alive, too. We've only had a few of these multi-killers live to talk about their evil deeds. For some reason, I don't expect him to live long enough to testify under oath.

[Gannon]

An ad hominem is an ad hominem regardless of your excuses.

Careful there, Chuck, you are starting to sound alarmingly like this shooter. Why exactly do you care enought to add any energy to this distraction?


Have you been around to witness any of Vox's other comments to me?! This has been going on for some time, and this particular one was as un-necessary as many of his others. I'd ignore them...but rarely wish to leave a conversation misunderstood.

[maxx]

gdog:Maybe this was the easy way out for him now he doesn't have to deal with society.

maxx: What are you talking about? Unlike some other killers, he didn't shoot himself. He's alive and will stand trial before society.

Gannon: How can you POSSIBLY arrive at understanding hostility out of my words?! You are a piece of work.

LOL

[Chuck La Chez]

Careful there, Chuck, you are starting to sound alarmingly like this shooter.

If you found that sentence to be incomprehensible, I'd be happy to explain it to you.

Why exactly do you care enought to add any energy to this distraction?

I'm on a mission from God to root out logical fallacies.

[johnsmith]

But, Johnny5, those Glock magazines larger than the original 10-shot supplied with the weapon WERE made illegal by the Clinton adminisrtation's law. The only ones for sale for a long while were those in stock before the ban went into effect.

They were only banned from further production until Bush let it expire. It was perfectly legal to own a higher capacity magazine that was made prior to the ban. So the word "illegal" is misleading.

[Jimaz]

But that article DOES say twenty people were shot. I am unaware of the Glock pistol that has that capacity.

I heard that he was able to reload at least once. Story was that one of his victims [[a woman) was trying to prevent him from reloading but failed. She may have saved some lives by at least slowing him down.

[Vox]

How can you POSSIBLY arrive at understanding hostility out of my words?! You are a piece of work.




Why would I need to quote the previous post in the thread? Or do you merely pick mine out for some odd reason?!

You are a sorry individual, either way. Linear reading comprehension classes would probably help you a bit.

Once, again, the hostility. My, my , my. And the same old linear lies that seem to lob on a regular basis. I can't imagine why you are so bitter and malignant half the time, or why you would be compelled to see conspiracies in the deaths of 9 year old girls.

[jiminnm]

This is a good op-ed piece on the attempts of many, including several posters here, of attempting to blame someone other than the shooter for this tragic event.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...p_mostpop_read

[gazhekwe]

I am glad that this shooting has opened a national dialog on the potential consequences of violent imagery and personalizing disagreement. Whether any particular person or group is blamed is irrelevant. We ALL need to think about the potential consequences of intemperate speech.

[maxx]

"I think it's important for all leaders... not just leaders of the Republican Party or the Democratic Party... to say, look, we can't stand for this...we're on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but the thing is that the way that she has it depicted has the cross-hairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they've got to realize there's consequences to that action."
-Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, March 25, 2010


If I take that AZ quiz, do I get a free gun?

[Ravine]

I guess it is human nature, to think in a binary way. One side is right, the other is wrong. I get that. I don't practice it, but I get it.
But do we have to decide who is to blame? Do we have to vainly believe that we understand things so deeply as to be in position to make that decision?
If there is any accuracy to the picture we are getting of him-- and I have some doubts, about that-- this young fella has severe mental illness written all over him. Trying to reach a conclusion about why he did what he did, and whose actions or words may have spurred him on, is about as foolish a task as trying to judge why I prefer the color green to the color red.

[canuck]

I guess it is human nature, to think in a binary way. One side is right, the other is wrong. I get that. I don't practice it, but I get it.
But do we have to decide who is to blame? Do we have to vainly believe that we understand things so deeply as to be in position to make that decision?
If there is any accuracy to the picture we are getting of him-- and I have some doubts, about that-- this young fella has severe mental illness written all over him. Trying to reach a conclusion about why he did what he did, and whose actions or words may have spurred him on, is about as foolish a task as trying to judge why I prefer the color green to the color red.

I agree with you it is too soon to judge without everything in place. But let's look at the surface of things and get an idea of what this guy is like. The fact that he got a pistol without a fuss, the fact that he was incoherent and didnt get help, etc... I think that he could just have been satisfied burning a flag, doing something ineffectual or he could have done something a lot worse. The point is political leaders and broadcasters who use intemperate language are bound to push some lunatic's button.
Why does a former vice-presidential candidate use inflammatory language given the history of political assassinations and shootings. He did, after all is said, not go out and shoot Coke bottles in
the desert. He shot someone who happened to have been on a list.

[Ravine]

Yup.
Believe me, I'm not recommending that we pretend as though we don't see that, or that we hastily rule out a possible connection.

[oladub]

The point is political leaders and broadcasters who use intemperate language are bound to push some lunatic's button.
Why does a former vice-presidential candidate use inflammatory language given the history of political assassinations and shootings. He did, after all is said, not go out and shoot Coke bottles in
the desert. He shot someone who happened to have been on a list.

Canuck, I'll match the former Vice-president's inflammatory language and raise you with the present President's inflammatory language... but first... where has it been established that this tragedy had anything to do with violent imagery? No one has reported that the shooter ever listened to routinely blamed talking heads. No one has show any evidence that the shooter had seen Palin ads with targets. He was registered as an independent and did not vote in 2010. What's your source besides conjecture or assumptions?

How's this for inflamatory rhetoric?

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun.” Barack Obama in July 2008

* “I want you to argue with them and get in their face!” Barack Obama, September 2008

* “Here’s the problem: It’s almost like they’ve got — they’ve got a bomb strapped to them and they’ve got their hand on the trigger. You don’t want them to blow up. But you’ve got to kind of talk them, ease that finger off the trigger.” Barack Obama on banks, March 2009

* “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!” Barack Obama on ACORN Mobs, March 2010

* “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.” Barack Obama on the private sector, June 2010

* “A Republican majority in Congress would mean ‘hand-to-hand combat’ on Capitol Hill for the next two years, threatening policies Democrats have enacted to stabilize the economy.” Barack Obama, October 6, 2010

* “We’re gonna punish our enemies and we’re gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us.” Barack Obama to Latinos, October 2010[[found on The Blaze website)

I defend the President's right to say whatever he chooses because he has that right under the 1st Amendment. The advantage is that it let's us know where he is coming from and for those of us who disapprove, that's what voting booths are for. I just hope Republicans don't select some one even worse again.

[rb336]

ola, that is a FAR cry from anything the right did/said. If you don't see the qualitative difference between his comments and right wingers suggesting hunting tags for obama then you are not as bright as I think you are

[Bella]

Westboro Church to Picket Funeral of Nine-Year-Old Tucson Victim

By Arthur Weinreb
Published Jan 11, 2011

Church Will Protest Funeral of Christina Green
Photo by K763, Flickr


Fred Phelps of the Westboro Baptist Church announced his group will protest at the funeral of Christina-Taylor Green who was gunned down in Tucson.

On Jan. 10, 2011, Fred Phelps, pastor of the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka Kansas, issued a press release on the church’s “God hates fags” website announcing that the group will picket the funeral of 9-year-old Christina-Taylor Green, the little girl who was shot to death in the mass murder in front of a Safeway store in Tucson Arizona.
The group, comprised mainly of Phelps and his family members are infamous for picketing the funerals of American soldiers who died in Iraq or Afghanistan while in the service of their country. According to the beliefs of this independent church, God kills these soldiers because the United States tolerates homosexuality. Picketers hold signs with such slogans as “God hates fags” and “You’re going to hell” while these funerals are taking place..
Phelps and his church members hate everyone who does not accept their own peculiar religious beliefs. While their most virulent hatred is reserved for gays and lesbians, Jews, Catholics and other religions are also the objects of their vitriol.

“The child is better off dead…”

According to the press release, Christina Greene [sic] deserved to die and God sent the shooter “to deal with idolatrous America.” Little Christina-Taylor’s sin? She was born and raised in the Catholic Church.
Phelps and his twisted family believe that Catholics deserve to die because they are perverts who pay salaries to pedophile rapists. Catholics celebrate Christmas which according to the Westboro Baptist Church is nothing more a “pagan orgy of rebellion.” As well, although divorce is wrong, Catholics simply call it an annulment.
Phelps and his brood also take the view that although the bible says there shall be “no sodomy”, Catholics say that it is okay to be gay.
All of these perceived sins of Catholics were specifically put on little Christina-Taylor. The release concludes that she is better off dead than living because she would have been taught “more rebellion” and would have brought “more of God’s wrath upon her head”. In other words, it was a good that she was killed.
Images



Phelps Praises Alleged Shooter, Jared Loughner

Shortly after the Tucson shooting, Fred Phelps recorded a video and posted it on YouTube. The video begins with the promise that the funerals of all those who died or will die from the mass murder in Arizona will be picketed by members of the Westboro Baptist Church.
Phelps praises Jared Loughner who he described as an Afghanistan veteran. Although there were rumours shortly after Loughner was identified, that he had some connection to the military, these reports turned out to be false. Loughner was never in the military and certainly not a war veteran. Facts don’t seem to as important and trying to disgrace the memory of a little girl to the pastor.
On the video, Phelps thanks God for the violent shooter. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords deserved to be shot because she voted for laws Congress passed that oppose the Westboro Baptist Church. And she also believes in sin.
Federal judge John M. Roll deserved to die because another federal court judge in Baltimore brought a case against Phelps and the church. Rolls merely paid the price for the sins of this other federal judge.
Phelps refers to Sarah Palin, who he describes as a witch, for having put Congresswoman Giffords in her crosshairs. The pastor tells people not to worry about Palin but to worry about God who has them in His crosshairs.
The clip ends with Phelps praying for more shootings, more violent veterans and more dead.
Funeral to be Protected by Angel Wings

After the Westboro Church announced it would picket the funeral of Christina-Taylor, CNN reported that a group of people planned to wear large angel wings to protect mourners from the picketers.
One of the organizers of this “angel action” was quoted as saying, “You don’t mess with Tucson.”
Christina-Taylor’s funeral will be held on Thursday afternoon, Jan. 13, 2011.
Press release, Westboro Baptist Church, retrieved Jan. 11, 2011
YouTube, Fred Phelps Thanks God for Gabrielle Giffords Shooting, retrieved Jan. 11, 2011
CNN International, Funeral pickets to be met by ‘angels’, retrieved Jan. 11, 2011.

Read more at Suite101: Westboro Church to Picket Funeral of Nine-Year-Old Tucson Victim http://www.suite101.com/content/west...#ixzz1AjotD8ei

[gazhekwe]

Free Press today, on issue of blame:

http://digital.olivesoftware.com/Oli...&view=ZW50aXR5

But all that can be said for certain about the Tucson rampage is that it was perpetrated by a young man who struck nearly everyone he encountered as deeply disturbed, and who somehow found it easier to obtain a deadly weapon than the mental health care he so obviously required. That is where any rational attempt to understand this tragedy, and how civilized people ought to respond to it, should start.

[rb336]

Westboro Church to Picket Funeral of Nine-Year-Old Tucson Victim

Now will the voices of the far right condemn these freaks?

[Vox]

I like this article regarding the reading habits of this idiot. Here is a quote:

It's not hard to understand why Loughner might be drawn to such narratives. A young man whose slide into paranoid schizophrenia has been noticed and addressed [[Loughner was suspended from Pima Community College and administrators insisted that he get a mental health evaluation before he would be allowed to return) probably would favor literature in which maverick truth-tellers are labeled as insane or criminal by self-serving authority figures.
By including Plato's "Republic" and "Meno" on his list of favorites, Loughner could imply, as many paranoids do, that by virtue of his superior intellect he was privy to hidden knowledge of how the world really works. Casting the delusional notions in his videos in the form of logical syllogisms [["If A.D.E. is endless in year, then the years in A.D.E don't cease. A.D.E is endless in year. Therefore the years in A.D.E. don't cease.") was surely also meant to insist that they were the product of rational thought, not insanity.

http://www.salon.com/news/gabrielle_...hner_book_list

[Bella]

Now will the voices of the far right condemn these freaks?

Good question, but I doubt it will help. Phelps is a sick, sick man. It's almost like he enjoys the negative publicity. Michael Moore made me laugh when he protested Phelps protest.

He needs to take himself back to his creepy little backwoods property and stay there.

[Detroitej72]

Now will the voices of the far right condemn these freaks?

Good point. Everybody who is conservative or a Baptist needs to condemn these clowns, otherwise they must agree with this rhetoric.

Isn't that what cons say every moderate Muslim must to to the radical, conservatives among them?

[canuck]

Canuck, I'll match the former Vice-president's inflammatory language and raise you with the present President's inflammatory language... but first... where has it been established that this tragedy had anything to do with violent imagery? No one has reported that the shooter ever listened to routinely blamed talking heads. No one has show any evidence that the shooter had seen Palin ads with targets. He was registered as an independent and did not vote in 2010. What's your source besides conjecture or assumptions?


I defend the President's right to say whatever he chooses because he has that right under the 1st Amendment. The advantage is that it let's us know where he is coming from and for those of us who disapprove, that's what voting booths are for. I just hope Republicans don't select some one even worse again.

Are you saying the language is OK? Are you a tit for tat or do you judge both Palin and Obama's rhetoric regrettable?

I think Obama's language was inflammatory as you say and regrettable. I also think that guns are too prevalent and that the two ingredients put together make a heady mix. As for proof that the two said ingredients were responsible for Loughner's attack, I don't have that proof, but again; Politicians are speaking to a vast number of people; that is why they are dubbed leaders. So, unless you are in a dictatorship, your use of language needs to be temperate.

[gdogslim]

Good point. Everybody who is conservative or a Baptist needs to condemn these clowns, otherwise they must agree with this rhetoric.
Isn't that what cons say every moderate Muslim must to to the radical, conservatives among them?

Who hasn't, ??? Has anyone favored it???
I guess it is Sarah Palin who caused the pot smoking left wing freak to kill all those people eh?
The left trying to use this as a media event about right wing hate speech is disgusting like the democrat sheriff from pima county blaming others for the shooting.

Maybe stabenow, the russian jewish socialist senator from michigan, will try to push through anti free speech legislation again [[to help out her ex husband and his radio station interests)