DPSchools: 40,000 kids to get laptops from stimulus funds

**English** · January-07-11, 05:40 AM

Look, I don't view this as an either-or proposition or a zero sum game. Making the lives of teachers easier to teach students those basic skills is what it's all about. We're not exactly talking about teachers playing solitaire or watching their soaps on Hulu here.

In the end, I'm with Don Pablo. Sheesh... sometimes I go on and on needlessly, when he summed the situation up nicely. As if "learning basic skills" and "information technology" are mutually exclusive. In 2011. In twenty. Eleven.

**DetroitTeacher** · January-07-11, 06:48 AM

I know that most teachers will use the technology for the good of the kids. It's easier for me, in HS, to raise kids' reading levels and to help them with the basics [[that they should have gotten eons ago but somehow managed to make it to my 11th grade class without). It's hard to give individual instruction to a kid who is lacking the basics in a 50 minute period once a day AND still get in the curriculum and attend to everyone else. A kid who hasn't mastered writing a sentence [[nevermind a paragraph or a however-many-pages paper) needs a lot more attention than those who who have mastered the skills. Computers can assist me with this. I'm excited about this and have been begging for tech in my class for the LONGEST time. It will do nothing but HELP the kids, if used properly.

In all fairness to my lacking a chalkboard...I am in the band room. It was MY choice to take that room or a tiny room that wouldn't hold 20 kids. I knew it had no chalkboard. I can make do without one and put everything on powerpoint. I was using MY personal laptop for the PP presentations until it got stolen. This was prior to DPS putting a desktop in my room [[but even that's on a rollaround cart). I also bought myself a dry erase board [[a smaller type that I can lug around). Please don't get things twisted, I knew what I was getting into. I chose the better alternative for me [[and the kids since we are not crammed into an itty bitty room).

My kids also have TP. I buy it. I guess I could go steal it from someplace in the building [[it's there but the kids misuse it and we have ONE custodian who just can't refill the bathrooms fast enough, because he's spread so thin and that would be all he'd be doing is restocking TP). I don't know where they keep the TP. I also clean my own room with my own broom and dustpan, bucket and mop. Did someone say teachers are overpaid?

**Lowell** · January-07-11, 08:01 AM

Detroitteacher, thank you for your service and for sharing your stories of the realities of inner city education. They reflect those of what I have heard over the years from other dedicated teacher friends with DPS. Your stories are worthy of a novel and a movie.

Individual mobile internet-connected computing devices are the single most important instrument with which a student today needs to be equipped. Their value is not so much about curriculum content as it is about immersing the student in the total information age environment that opens up endless possibilities for learning and creativity, no to mention employment readiness.

Bought in bulk at educational rates they are now very inexpensive. They cost is less than a year's set of books yet, unlike books that are frozen in time and therefore obsolete as soon as they are printed, students have a connection to a body of knowledge equivalent to the Library of Congress through the Gutenberg Project, MIT free classes and more.

"They will only play games with them." That's good too. A primary reason I, as an artist with very limited means, scraped together money for a computer in 1992 was that I realized my 5 year old son must understand this new medium. He soon started playing Marathon, a puzzle-solving sci-fi shoot-em-up and was self-motivated to learn the basics of computing, how navigate the file system, to create and save files, how to speed touch-type, how to plan and collaborate, how to search the internet by seeking advantages in playing the game. Within a couple of years he was designing 50 room multi-floor environments with stairs, elevators and teleportation gateways.

I became a learner too, leading to figuring out how to create my first primitive website in 1994, the first fine art website in metro Detroit, to sell my paintings. In turn this lead to demand for websites from businesses, the creation of the first cyber-cafe in metro Detroit, sale of my art [first sale was to a client in Zurich, Switzerland] and eventually to the creation of this site.

My point is that individual computing has immense potential to unlock self-motivating potentials like nothing else and that, in turn, leads to economic activity and business that benefits the total community.

LodgeDodger · January-07-11, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitTeacher

Fryar: I am the only teacher in the building who uses RESA's Blackboard with my kids. I've been doing it for years and years and am usually the only one who does so. My kids love it because they can access things [[and I post all handouts and notes on it) and don't need to worry about missed assignments since I also post my lesson plans to it. Yes...I mean "me", not the district and not the building...just lil ol me. The district has nothing of the sort in place [[although they did try and make Bb available to everyone, not many people used it so they stopped). Now, individual teachers can use it, if they want. DPS is trying to implement Zangle but it doesn't have the same capabilities as Bb.

Zangle and Blackboard are two different animals. Zangle is used as an accountability/reporting tool. Blackboard is a way to enhance teaching and assessment.

LodgeDodger · January-07-11, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by RickBeall

That's a great idea! Have the president make a speech.

That's real breakthrough thinking!

He tried that--remember? Everyone went batshit over the potential content of the speech he was planning to deliver to the students.

**DetroitTeacher** · January-07-11, 10:59 AM

Lodge: Yes, I know that Zangle and Bb are two different animals. Zangle, however, can be used to post grades [[although DPS hasn't given us that capability yet) and class news and such. It COULD be used as a truncated version of a tool such as Bb [[just the basics). I used to post grades on Bb but that got to be a chore and my gradebook is open and kids can look at their stuff anytime. Right now, we are just using Zangle for attendance. I really wish they'd open up the gradebook...it would make my life much easier. Right now, I am posting grades onto a spreadsheet and saving it to a flashdrive and carting it back and forth from home to work. Zangle would allow for a neat little package that is easily printed.

**PeterhuntPrincess** · January-07-11, 11:14 AM

I'm loving Zangle right now. I am able to post grades, plus IEPTs and almost any form I could ever need is on there. But that doesn't mean I'm not keeping back ups of everything. This is technology at it's best, DPS style, lol!

**DetroitTeacher** · January-07-11, 11:18 AM

Wait...not fair! I can't access the Gradebook feature on Zangle nor can I look at my students' IEPs! I would love to be able to access their IEPs so that I can better serve the kids. The only thing I can do with it is attendance!! I am HS Gen Ed, though. Our SpEd teachers have access to IEPs and such.

**Detroitnerd** · January-07-11, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by donpablo

I'm going to be blunt. Fuck anybody who thinks DPS kids shouldnt get this technology. I have 3 Children in DPS and they deserve this technology. There are thousands of kids who do well in DPS and deserve this technolgy. THere are thousands of Kids who don't do well and deserve this technology.

I think you're missing the point. It's not that Detroit students don't DESERVE anything. I just don't believe that computers help people learn. A minority opinion, I grant you, but not a referendum on the value of Detroit students. And certainly not a reason to fly off the handle and start telling people to fuck off.

Have a nice day.

**DetroitTeacher** · January-07-11, 12:05 PM

Nerd: I disagree...computers DO help kids learn! Technology is a great thing, when used appropriately. It's not just used for Facebook and games, ya know. A wealth of information can be found online and, in an era where budget cuts have stolen out librarians and books [[I don't have the novels I need), technology can be a great enhancement to my teaching! Shoot, I've learned much by using a computer to find information, research what I wanted to see in England before I went there, researched various topics, found answers to questions that kids asked me...and much more. With the many applications and websites we can access, it will be great for those kids who need some extra practice and for those who are working ahead. I also have a student who is blind who uses a computer to do his work, listen to the audio versions of stories [[he doesn't know braille yet) and he emails me his work from a computer. I think you need to do some research before you say computers don't help people learn.

**Detroitnerd** · January-07-11, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitTeacher

Nerd: I disagree...computers DO help kids learn! Technology is a great thing, when used appropriately. It's not just used for Facebook and games, ya know. A wealth of information can be found online and, in an era where budget cuts have stolen out librarians and books [[I don't have the novels I need), technology can be a great enhancement to my teaching! Shoot, I've learned much by using a computer to find information, research what I wanted to see in England before I went there, researched various topics, found answers to questions that kids asked me...and much more. With the many applications and websites we can access, it will be great for those kids who need some extra practice and for those who are working ahead. I also have a student who is blind who uses a computer to do his work, listen to the audio versions of stories [[he doesn't know braille yet) and he emails me his work from a computer. I think you need to do some research before you say computers don't help people learn.

Sorry, I don't agree with you. And I don't care, really. I'm one of the few holdouts in this regard, and it doesn't bother me to disagree. But I must say, your little rah-rah speech for computers is sort of silly. Before computers, you used BOOKS to find all that information you crave. Books with real EDITORS and SCHOLARS on the frontspieces. You know, so somebody's ass was on the line if something was wrong. I look online and I can always find an answer, just half the time it's wrong. Kind of ridic that you are bemoaning the lack of books in the library while we basically jettison "media centers" and throw kids a computer and hope they learn something. Vis-a-vis special needs students, I'm sure the program is doing great. You have a blind student who can't read, and your computer is helping him -- not read. Great job.

Teach kids to do math, read and write. Teach them critical thinking. It can all be done with chalk and paper. Show children that there are so many exciting and enlightening books to read. But spare me the the patronizing, rah-rah happy-talk about "the many applications and websites we can access."

Paging Richard Mitchell ...

**DetroitTeacher** · January-07-11, 12:34 PM

Nerd: How DARE you slap me around for helping a kid who can't see. The kid was in an accident recently and lost his sight. He hasn't had time to learn Braille and, frankly, where the hell is he going to get money to BUY the books in Braille for him TO read? Books are wonderful...I am a book person, myself. I love them. BUT...can you please tell me where I am to find up to date books that contain up to date material? The library? Yeah, Ok...field trip to the library it is...hope we don't get mugged or shot on the way. We don't have a librarian here and I can't seem to find a damn book in our library printed after 1980! How is that for relevant info? I can NOT teach 100+ kids critical thinking without having some kid of fucking tools in my reach. I do help kids to become better thinkers and to be able to ask the right questions of themselves about topics, choices, etc. Why don't you bring your ass to my classroom and see how well you do without the basics [[texts, novels, a chalkboard), why don't you hike your ass to the store and buy me the chalk [[and a fucking chalkboard to go with that chalk) and paper with which to teach the kids, and why don't you come in and offer to teach my student who can't see Braille? Yeah...didn't think so you coward.

**Sorry to those of you who are offended by my language and attitude. You can mess with me but don't mess with my kids, especially one who is blind! My student's computer reads him what he types and reads him documents so that he can fit in to the real world [[I don't think a braille typewriter will get him a damn job in the real world). I don't know if a chalkboard could read him what is written on it and chalk isn't exactly something he can hear. Shit, he could type his work on a Braille typewriter but who can grade it...I don't know Braille! At least this way, he's learning something and getting some fucking feedback instead of sitting and rotting away in a class that isn't challenging his BRAIN...which works fine.

**RickBeall** · January-07-11, 01:06 PM

I am all for Detroit kids getting laptops. Who could argue against that?

What I hate is that "economic stimulus" money is being used to pay for the laptops. I really dislike it when the federal government does not use money for its stated purpose.

**DetroitFats** · January-07-11, 01:12 PM

DTeach,
We were finally able to post grades on Zangle yesterday afternoon. Try clicking on "Marks" from the main page and choose "Semester 1" on the dropdown menu. I hope this helps.

**DetroitTeacher** · January-07-11, 01:23 PM

DFats: I am able to do that [[and have). I thought you were referring to the Gradebook component for posting daily grades like a hardcopy gradebook.

**13074Glenfield** · January-07-11, 01:36 PM

My this has gotten nasty. There are different opinions among experts as to whether or not technology, and specifically personal computers, do or do not help students to learn more, better, or faster. One of the experts who felt it wasn't the case was quoted in the NY Times article cited earlier. Rather than an evaluation and discussion of those points of view, I saw this as a discussion of priorities. Whether this was the best way for the money to be spent seems to me to be a valid question. I think we understand that DPS had no option to use the money in any other way. I think the question was whether constraining them in this manner was wise or whether there might be higher priorities. I saw no comparison of city vs. suburbs in these discussions, nor comments that the DPS students didn't deserve them.

What seemed to strike me when I read that these were being purchased was that, IN GENERAL, the DPS are failing. Compared to national averages for all schools, graduation rates are extremely low, drop out rates are very high, and test scores are very low. By all reasonable measures, the public schools in Detroit are failing. They are not alone in this regard, but they are the subject of the discussion.

Since over 80% of the students in DPS are black, since there is a higher percentage of single parent homes and out-of-wedlock teen pregnancies in the black community than society on the whole, and since those factors are believed by some experts to contribute to poor performance in school, it seemed fair to raise that an as obstacle to learning that would not be easily overcome by the purchase of laptop computers.

If someone wants to read that as racist, I think they're going down the wrong road.

As a matter of disclosure, I am a proud graduate of the DPS system and no longer live in Michigan.

**English** · January-07-11, 01:37 PM

Great to see you on DYes, DetroitFats!

Sidenote: If anyone is interested in evidence from research studies across disciplines attesting to how technology in the classroom can impact student achievement and learning outcomes, please feel free to PM me. I'm happy to provide such to those who are interested in a serious conversation about this topic.

**DetroitTeacher** · January-07-11, 02:10 PM

The money has been spent and the kids are getting the computers. It sure can't HURT them any to have access to technology in this technologically advanced world. Even on job applications they want to know what sort of technology a person can use. I'm just making the best of it and enjoying what they are going to give me.

**Detroitnerd** · January-07-11, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by English

technology in the classroom can impact student achievement and learning outcomes.

Technology affects student achievement and learning. [[This whole "impacting outcomes" thing sounds painfully constipated.) Oh, yeah. I'm sure there are a million studies showing how "outcomes" are "impacted". My own "outcomes" were "impacted" by chalk, ink, paper and pencils. By paint, brushes, construction paper and safety scissors. By drums, flutes, guitars and pianos. By engines, grease, torches and flux. By books, magazines, references and card catalogs. By running, jumping, playing and even fighting. Some of it will stay with me for life. Some of it was by then already painfully obsolete [["When you are an adult," they said, "you will be expected to write in ink without mistakes in a flowing hand." So much for that -- although it is a nice skill to have.)

But my questions about computers are deeper. Jesus, the way some of you have reacted, you'd think I imagine that handing out laptops to Detroit students is like putting 22-inch rims on a rusty Olds. No, I just have some serious questions about how electronic gizmos are "impacting" those "outcomes." Do computers make children wiser? I really don't think so. And that's my honest opinion; so sue me.

I had a great education, with a lot of "tools." I wouldn't begrudge anybody that kind of varied education, with instructors who cared, and a wealth of sports, instruments, art supplies, books and media. I wish Detroit students had more of these. As for the computers, I am sorry; I am not impressed.

**DetroitFats** · January-07-11, 02:17 PM

DTeach,
The word in our building is that Gradebook will be available in February. It's funny, but somehow I prefer using an old school [[hardcopy) gradebook. However, if and when Zangle Gradebook becomes available, I certainly will use it, but I think I'll always keep a Squibb's Class Record Book close at hand!
Thanks English. I always appreciate your thoughtful posts. Hope all is going well for you at WSU.

**DetroitTeacher** · January-07-11, 02:23 PM

Kids, today, learn differently than we did. We didn't have access to computer anything, except a calculator. They weren't even thought of for individual use. Heck, an electric typewriter was what I used. Yes, we did just fine. Today, kids are electonic by nature. They grow up using technology and it's easy for them. I admit, books and long hand division are easier for me. I say we give the kids what they are familiar with...shoot, I heard that hardcopy books won't even be in print in the near future. We have to keep up with the times and I have to give my kids some sort of chance. If a computer helps one kid, then that's one kid who isn't left by the wayside.

**Detroitnerd** · January-07-11, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitTeacher

Kids, today, learn differently than we did.

Well, the neurological process of learning is always the same. I do think they are taught less reading, writing and math, and much less critical thinking.

Originally Posted by DetroitTeacher

Today, kids are electonic by nature. They grow up using technology and it's easy for them.

So what's the point of giving them computers if they're already adapted to it?

Originally Posted by DetroitTeacher

I heard that hardcopy books won't even be in print in the near future.

You can't seriously believe this. There will always be books. Society isn't going to jettison print. If anything more books are in print than ever before.

**DetroitTeacher** · January-07-11, 03:38 PM

Kids aren't engaged today. I am not electronic...they are engaged with computers and have their own questions and need to be able to find answers. Books just can't keep up with the changing information. My textbooks are already outdated and we just got them. Here are two really good examples, told using video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A-ZVCjfWf8 and this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fnh9q_cQcUE&NR=1

**Detroitnerd** · January-07-11, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitTeacher

Kids aren't engaged today. I am not electronic...they are engaged with computers and have their own questions and need to be able to find answers. Books just can't keep up with the changing information. My textbooks are already outdated and we just got them. Here are two really good examples, told using video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A-ZVCjfWf8 and this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fnh9q_cQcUE&NR=1

Oh, yes. God forbid anybody should get a classic liberal arts education using books that are as old as 50-400 years old. [[The King James Bible turns 400 this year; throw that outdated crap out!) Besides, we have a youtube video that will replace all those musty old books.

Seriously, save your energy and stop posting. Your point of view is astonishing to me, and somewhat repulsive. I have a house full of books, and buy books every week. I read new books all the time. If this is your glib attitude toward books, our edumacational system is in more trouble than I'd ever imagined.

**DetroitTeacher** · January-07-11, 03:57 PM

Why don't you stop reading my posts. I also read books. I love books. I'm saying that education has to keep up with society. You can't do anything without having computer knowledge. To fill out the FAFSA and ACT forms, the kids need to fill those out online. To fill out college apps and job apps...all online.

Nerd, you disgust me and it's obvious that you don't know jack shit about education and kids.