French woman searches traces of grandfather from Detroit

[Mary Murphy]

Thank you very much Lferg for your message and the link of 32nd division.
Two minutes ago, I went on this site, but I found nothing about William Murphy [[#1).
How can I find this William Murphy on this site?
Thank you very much once again.
Best wishes.
Mary

[DtCtyGrl]

Any more word on the William Murphy research?

[Mikeg]

I contacted the New Albany National Cemetery to see what additional information they might have about William J. Murphy #18. The only useful information they could provide was the fact that he served in the "Ordnance Department" of the U.S. Army.

Adding that fact to the other information we have collected about him, I filled out his SF-180 Request form and mailed it today to the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis, MO. I have also updated the Summary Page.

Each American Expeditionary Force [[AEF) Infantry Division sent to France during World War One consisted of two Infantry Brigades plus some non-combat support groups that were attached to the Brigades. The US Army Ordnance Department attached 20 soldiers to each Infantry Brigade. The total number of officers and men in each Infantry Division was about 16,700 [source].

Ordnance Department soldiers were also attached to other types of US Army units during World War One:

• 49 soldiers per Field Artillery Brigade
• 571 soldiers in the AEF Army Air Service

Since Ordnance Dept. soldiers were non-combatants, it is possible they had more opportunities than combat soldiers to fraternize with the local French population over an extended period of time.

I will report back when I get a response from the National Personnel Records Center.

------------------------------------------

J'ai communiqué avec le New Albany cimetière national de consulter les renseignements supplémentaires qu'ils pourraient avoir sur William J. Murphy # 18. La seule information utile qu'ils pourraient apporter, c'est le fait qu'il a servi dans le «Ordnance Department» de l'armée américaine.

Ajout de ce fait aux autres informations que nous avons recueillis sur lui, j'ai rempli son SF-180 Formulaire de demande et envoyée aujourd'hui Ã[ la National Personnel Records Center, Ã[ St. Louis, MO. J'ai aussi modifié la page sommaire.

Chaque American Expeditionary Force [[AEF) Division d'infanterie envoyée en France pendant la Première Guerre mondiale se composait de deux brigades d'infanterie et quelques non-combattantes de groupes de soutien qui étaient attachés aux brigades. L'US Army Ordnance Department 20 soldats attachés Ã[ chaque brigade d'infanterie. Le nombre total des officiers et des hommes dans chaque division d'infanterie était d'environ 16700 [source].

Ordnance Department soldats ont également été reliés Ã[ d'autres types d'unités de l'armée américaine pendant la Première Guerre mondiale:

• 49 soldats par brigade d'artillerie de campagne
• 571 soldats en service AEF Armée de l'Air

Depuis Ordnance Dept soldats étaient des non-combattants, il est possible qu'ils avaient plus de possibilités que de soldats de combat Ã[ fraterniser avec la population locale française, sur une période de temps prolongée.

Je serai de retour déclaration lorsque je obtenir une réponse auprès de la National Personnel Records Center.

[Mary Murphy]

Hi Mike,
I am very happy to read you.
I hope that we will have news of William Murphy number 18, at soon.
Thank you very much.
Best wishes.
Mary

[Mikeg]

I have received a form letter response from the Military Personnel Records section of the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis, MO regarding the "SF-180" I submitted for William J. Murphy #18.

As with William Murphy #1, they indicate that his military personnel records were either damaged or destroyed in the July 1973 fire and they asked me to fill out and return this "NA Form 13075", which I have done.

Now we will have to sit back and wait again. In the meantime, I have found our William J. Murphy #18 in an on-line family tree and I have e-mailed the owner of that family tree to see if he has any more information about him, but I have not yet received a response.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

J'ai reçu une lettre type de réponse de la National Personnel Records Center, Ã[ St. Louis, MO ce qui concerne la "SF-180" J'ai soumis pour William J. Murphy # 18.

Comme avec William Murphy # 1, ils indiquent que ses dossiers du personnel militaire ont été endommagés ou détruits dans l'incendie de 1973 Juillet et on m'a demandé de remplir et de retourner ce "NA Formulaire 13075", que j'ai fait.

Maintenant, il nous faudra s'asseoir et d'attendre Ã[ nouveau. En attendant, j'ai trouvé nos William J. Murphy # 18 dans un arbre généalogique en ligne et je l'ai envoyé par courriel le propriétaire de cet arbre pour voir s'il a des informations plus sur lui, mais je n'ai pas encore reçu une réponse.

[Mary Murphy]

Hi Mikeg,
I am happy to read you again. Thank you very very much for your research.
I don't know this idiomatic expression "Now we will have to sit back and wait again".
I think that we have to be patient.
Best wishes.
Mary

[Stosh]

I'm sitting here watching a program on PBS that deals with American VOLUNTEERS that went to France and drove ambulances during WWI. Could this have been what Murphy did? They were all Model T ambulances. They wuld have needed a mechanic... And the French have their records there, in France. With picture ID.

Edit: Never mind. There's a William Murphy on there, from Harvard though. Massachusets.

[Lferg]

Stosh,

It's interesting you bring that up, wasn't Limoges where the medical units were?
Even if he was enlisted, he still could have been there to work on the ambulances.

[Stosh]

Stosh,

It's interesting you bring that up, wasn't Limoges where the medical units were?
Even if he was enlisted, he still could have been there to work on the ambulances.

Entirely possible. The records are there in France, perhaps Mary can make a trip down to see the photo. She could determine if there is a family resemblance or not. In any event, it may be worth a shot. The PBS show was Model T's to War: American Ambulances on the Western Front.

[Mary Murphy]

Hi Stosch and Lferg,
I am happy to read you.
Perhaps William Murphy was mechanic for the ambulance…
A week ago I found an other trace on Internet.
In summer 1918, in Limoges, [[ with other cities) the America army created a center for the formation and training of heavy tractor artillery. in Limoges. There were 3 regiments in Limoges. I read it on a journal “ the coast artillery journal” November 1922 page 389 [[No 195).Some centers were created with French automobile drivers’ schools.
Some days ago, I sent a message a person who is living in Limoges and is making searches archives in Limoges. But I have not received any answer for the moment.
At soon.
Yours sincerely.
Mary

[Mikeg]

That "Coastal Artillery" article from November 1922 is a nice find, "Mary Murphy"!

From page 9 of 99:

As a consequence of the arrival in mass at the beginning of the summer of 1918 [[8 brigades in June, 9 in July), waiting zones had to be organized near the great camps; by the end of July there were more than 20 brigades under training [[60 regiments). For the formation and training of the heavy tractor artillery, there were utilized the French automobile drivers' schools of Tremblay, Dourdan, Boulogne, Sathonay, and they created the centers of:

Mailly - Heavy railroad artillery
Liboume - 3 regiments, later 4
Limoges - 3 regiments
Clermont - 3 regiments
Angers - 3 regiments
Angouleme - 3 regiments

Remember that from his grave stone, we learned that William J. Murphy #18 was a soldier in the US Army Ordnance Department.

From page 6 of 99:

The artillery constitutes the combatant arm. All our artillery services are grouped in what the Americans call Ordnance [[See Chapter III).

From Chapter III [[pages 14 and 15 of 99):

The Ordnance Department is charged with the procurement and distribution of the materiel necessary for the artillery [[materiel, armament, harness,) as well as tanks, tractors, special automobiles, machine guns, small arms, infantry equipment, ammunition; it must also maintain this materiel; in a word, it is charged with our Services of the Artillery..... At the time of the armistice, there were in France 1,803 officers and 20,339 enlisted men.

The Services of Supply [[S.O.S.) is divided into several different branches.

Supply - This branch is charged with the duty of receiving, storing and distributing supplies. This branch operated at:

Bases - Montoir, Saint-Sulpice, Miramas, for general supplies; Usine Brulee [[Saint-Nazaire), Saint Loubes [[Bordeaux) etc., for ammunition.

Intermediate Zones - Gievres, Mehun [near Bourges, which is about 200 km north of Limoges] for general supplies. Issoudun for ammunition.

Zones of the Advance - Is-sur-Tille for general supplies. Jonchery [[Villers-Ie-See) for ammunition.

Each of these organizations being considerable. Further from them were the army depots, different according to the degree of engagement of the armies.

Construction and Maintenance.- This branch prepared the specifications and plans for the installation of the depots; it operated the large repair shops of Mehun and the other shops of the intermediate and advanced zones; it had particularly large installations at Romorantin, Courbevoie, Is-sur-Tille, Doulaincourt, Haussimont, etc.

Engineering. - This branch maintained a close liaison with the French and English. It had drafting offices at Tours, Paris, etc., proving grounds at Bourges, Mehun, Gavre and Quiberon. Its mission was to furnish all the technical information to the other ordnance sections.

Training. - This branch was charged with organizing and maintaining the schools for forming the Ordnance personnel and training the artillery units in the maintenance of the materiel. It had schools in all the artillery training centers and special schools at:

Is-sur-Tille [[personnel of the repair section); [near Dijon]
Jonchery [[ammunition); [near Chaumont]
Bourges [[ammunition and specialists); [about 200 km north of Limoges]
Saint-John-des-Monts [[machine-guns,etc.). [on the coast near Nantes]

So far we know that William J. Murphy #18 was in the Ordnance Dept. and that the Ordnance Dept. had responsibility for training Artillery and Ordnance personnel and that 3 regiments [[1 brigade) of artillery personnel arrived for training at Limoges during the period of June through September 1918.

This new information supports the possibility that William J. Murphy #18 could have been stationed in Limoges as a trainer during the summer of 1918 and possibly as late as the end of October 1918.

[Mary Murphy]

Super Mike,
You are like “ Sherlock Holmes”.
We have to “sit back and wait” for the information on William Murphy number 18.
Thank you Stosh and Lferg for your idea about the ambulances medical units. We’ll see what answers we get as we wait. In the meantime, I’ll see about organizing a trip to Limoges to check archives or photos myself. It’s not so easy, as I work full time and Limoges is a part of my past that was not always happy.[[ my American teacher has me helped to translate my ideas for the last sentences).
More soon.
Best wishes.
Mary

[Lferg]

Mike, does the family tree list a wife and children?

[Lferg]

Does anyone have access to Proquest? They recently added historic archives of the Detroit Free Press.

[Mikeg]

Mike, does the family tree list a wife and children?

No, William J. Murphy's sister Mary Margaret is the only one shown with additional details and a spouse and children. William J. and his other siblings only have their name and year of birth listed under his parent's names [[Cornelius William Murphy, b. 4/16/1871 in Cork, Ireland , d. 2/22/1941 in Detroit; Mary Goulden, b. abt. 1872 in Ireland, d. 4/1/1939 in Detroit).

From the tree it appears that the owner of the on-line tree is the grandson of Mary Margaret. I left a message for him using the Ancestry contact link but he has not responded [[even though he has logged in within the past week). I have found his mailing address on ZabaSearch, so it looks like I will have to contact him by mail. I will do that after I have received a final response from the Military Records unit in St. Louis.

[Lferg]

Thanks Mike. I did some digging but didn't come up with anything.

[Mary Murphy]

Dear Mike,
Thank you very much for your answer. My daughter was hospitalised for 15 days. I have not can reply quickly.
I have looked at very often if there were messages on this site during several months.
I am happy now to read you.
Now we must wait other information [[of Final Pay Voucher ?).
Thank you very much for your help.
Cordially.
Mary