Detroit To Potentially Lose Stance As 2nd Largest Midwest City

[Augustiner]

Detroit hasnt had a major grocery store in the city or a major retailer in the Downtown for years yet we seem to accept that as "normal." The standards we set for our city as "normal" would be labeled as "terminal" for others.

I don't think there is anything particularly wrong, on the face of it, with not having chain grocery stores. The problem is the lack of access to high-quality, nutritious food, and chain grocery stores are just one of a range of possible solutions to that problem.

[canuck]

Define "Viable." LA's downtown was a commercial high-rise wasteland until a few years ago, and I wouldn't exactly call the LA region a failure.

Los Angeles has that reputation of being low density and not bustling in the downtown but I remember walking on Broadway and it was a pretty happening street with plenty bodegas and 5 and dimes and mexican cowboys, central american families and LAPD mounted police. Great carnival atmosphere.

[mikefmich]

If you're talking metro decline, then I agree, the whole thing might be slipping away from us. But if that's the case, we need to be honest and not point the finger at "Detroit" [[code: blacks), but rather point the finger at the UAW, for killing the golden goose.

Get yourself educated a little.....anyone who makes statements like that about the auto industry isn't very informed.

[CLAUDE G]

Well its got to hit rock bottom somewhere before things start getting better

[softailrider]

Detroit hasnt had a major grocery store in the city or a major retailer in the Downtown for years yet we seem to accept that as "normal." The standards we set for our city as "normal", would be labeled as "terminal" for others.

It's sad, that last sentence you wrote is very true. The bar is set very low here.

[Gistok]

Yes, it sucks about Detroit's lack of grocery stores. However, one has to realize that grocery stores generally have a very low profit margin, compared to other store types. So when you combine that with the problem of shrinkage [[as seen with the Gratiot/7 Mile Kroger store), and factor in the police response... it doesn't bode as well for grocery stores in Detroit as it does say the CVS/Walgreen/Rite Aid stores across the city.

[princealbert]

I never had a problem finding a grocery store in the city limits when I lived in Detroit. And I don't just eat Better Maids and Faygo. That whole notion that there are no decent grocery stores in Detroit is a fallacy. I guess if you say it enough it becomes common knowledge.

[East Detroit]

Combine all of Metro Detroit into one city.

The "them vs us" gang would hate it, but it would be best for our region.

[STLgasm]

Indianapolis is lame!

[R8RBOB]

Los Angeles has that reputation of being low density and not bustling in the downtown but I remember walking on Broadway and it was a pretty happening street with plenty bodegas and 5 and dimes and mexican cowboys, central american families and LAPD mounted police. Great carnival atmosphere.

I remember when I arrived in California in 2000 and I visited Los Angeles in May of 2001. Being from the "D" I was shocked to discover that downtown LA turned off the nights after 6. It was a ghost town in the downtown area. Because the Lakers played at the Staples Center on Figueroa you would get folks to come down there but that was it. Everyone was in Hollywood like myself. I haven't been back there since they built LA Live so I would like to see how the area has changed.

[bartock]

I never had a problem finding a grocery store in the city limits when I lived in Detroit. And I don't just eat Better Maids and Faygo. That whole notion that there are no decent grocery stores in Detroit is a fallacy. I guess if you say it enough it becomes common knowledge.

You must have lived here a long time ago. The Better Maid and Faygo references as to groceries doesn't even make sense. It is almost a complete consensus that there aren't enough decent grocery stores in Detroit. There are 6 decent grocery stores within a square mile of my 15,000-odd inner ring suburb. The fact that there might be 6-10, or even 20 DECENT grocery stores in all of Detroit says a lot. Blind defense of Detroit is just as bad as blind criticism.

[BrushStart]

I remember when I arrived in California in 2000 and I visited Los Angeles in May of 2001. Being from the "D" I was shocked to discover that downtown LA turned off the nights after 6. It was a ghost town in the downtown area. Because the Lakers played at the Staples Center on Figueroa you would get folks to come down there but that was it. Everyone was in Hollywood like myself. I haven't been back there since they built LA Live so I would like to see how the area has changed.

Almost every sunbelt city I've been to is like that. They all have "commuter cores." They do not have high-density residential populations, and a few even have "token" skylines as the tall buildings were not the result of density driven demand. It reminds me of Southfield, MI. In sum, those cities may have grown tremendously in population and/or geographically, but they will never compete with places like NYC, Chicago, Boston, or Philly in terms of urban street life. They just weren't designed that way.

[Islandman]

I never had a problem finding a grocery store in the city limits when I lived in Detroit. And I don't just eat Better Maids and Faygo. That whole notion that there are no decent grocery stores in Detroit is a fallacy. I guess if you say it enough it becomes common knowledge.

So it's a notion. Right.

[313WX]

I never had a problem finding a grocery store in the city limits when I lived in Detroit. And I don't just eat Better Maids and Faygo. That whole notion that there are no decent grocery stores in Detroit is a fallacy. I guess if you say it enough it becomes common knowledge.

Well it depends, what's your definition of "decent?"

[princealbert]

You must have lived here a long time ago. The Better Maid and Faygo references as to groceries doesn't even make sense. It is almost a complete consensus that there aren't enough decent grocery stores in Detroit. There are 6 decent grocery stores within a square mile of my 15,000-odd inner ring suburb. The fact that there might be 6-10, or even 20 DECENT grocery stores in all of Detroit says a lot. Blind defense of Detroit is just as bad as blind criticism.

I lived in Detroit up until 5 years ago, and I still occasionally go to some of the stores I used to frequent. Granted, there are way more grocery stores in the burbs, but I always got good food and good [[maybe better) service at the stores in Detroit. My Better Maid and Faygo reference was to debunk the prevailing thought that inner city stores only carry junk food and inner city folks only do their grocery shopping at gas stations, or else drive to the nearest suburban Walmart or Meijers. Obviously chips and pop ain't groceries.

[iheartthed]

There are 6 decent grocery stores within a square mile of my 15,000-odd inner ring suburb. The fact that there might be 6-10, or even 20 DECENT grocery stores in all of Detroit says a lot. Blind defense of Detroit is just as bad as blind criticism.

Has it ever occurred to you that the 15,000-odd residents of your inner-ring burb don't actually support those stores all by themselves?

[bartock]

Has it ever occurred to you that the 15,000-odd residents of your inner-ring burb don't actually support those stores all by themselves?

Has it ever occurred to you that my point was that there aren't enough quality grocery stores in Detroit, and that is exactly WHY there are so many quality grocery stores in my inner-ring burb?

[iheartthed]

Has it ever occurred to you that my point was that there aren't enough quality grocery stores in Detroit, and that is exactly WHY there are so many quality grocery stores in my inner-ring burb?

If there aren't enough quality grocery stores in Detroit then why wouldn't they just build them in Detroit instead of your inner-ring suburb?

[bartock]

If there aren't enough quality grocery stores in Detroit then why wouldn't they just build them in Detroit instead of your inner-ring suburb?

It has been discussed on these boards before. Insurance being among the biggest issues.

[oladub]

1. Phoenix-Mesa-Glendale 2. San Franciso-Oakland-Fremont 3. Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario Will beat the Metro Detroit area in population with the 2010 census.

That may be so but if you were referencing post #15, it was a reference to the OP phrase " in the midwest".

[princealbert]

Didn't mean to derail this topic with the grocery store debate.

Back to the topic at hand....

If Detroit and the suburbs were to join forces, there is no doubt we would be the 2nd largest "city" in the Midwest for years to come. Does that have a positive effect on how much $$$ this region gets from Washington?

[princealbert]

Well it depends, what's your definition of "decent?"

You need to get out more

[casscorridor]

Detroit isn't a lost city, yet. There are things that could be done to change the city in the short term and have a population rebound, but they are unlikely to happen with the current political climate.

- consolidate the city and suburbs into a metro-wide city.

- construct rapid transit systems connecting the core of the city with viable areas of the suburbs. Build a rapid transit line to the airport.

- open up immigration and give incentives for immigrants to setle in the city's districts connected to the rapid transit system. Add signage in many languages all over the city [[arabic, hindi, mandarin, spanish, etc).

- open up the border to Canada so people can move freely across the border. Foster closer regional cooperation with Windsor and Ontario.

- construct high-speed rail between Montreal and Chicago via Toronto and Detroit. Restore MCS as the rail hub of the region.

- prohibit any new greenfield development. Require all new construction within the metro city takes an urban form. Incentivize development in the core of the city. Retrofit viable suburban areas into functioning and vibrant urban areas.

- estsblish a new urban university within the core to attract more stuents and graduates into the core of the city. Boost WSU's standing as a major research institution and increase enrollment. Expand CCS and its course offerings and increase its standing as a major art school.

- reopen public schools and ensure strong community involvement and accountablityin education. Reorganize districts in the regional city so they are not segregated based on race and class, and are all similar proportions in size. Offer free public university education to all who graduate from high school.

- transform the city into the most enivronmentally sustainable metro area in the world through huge investments in clean energy, energy efficency, mass transit/non-motorized transit and urban land-use.

- Rebrand Detroit as the innovation and manufacturing capitol of the world. The place where ideas are created and then put into practice. The place where things people need are created and and produced, from cars to trains, from medical breakthroughs to every day neccesities such as clothing or furniture. Detroit must be known as the maker and creator city. The center of the real economy, rather than the virtual one created by Wall Street.

Then I think Detroit would rebound and be an impressive Global City.

[Zozo]

- open up immigration and give incentives for immigrants to setle in the city's districts connected to the rapid transit system.

Do residents whom have lived in Detroit for generations and have poured so much of their blood, sweat, and tears into the city qualify for your incentives as well?

[313WX]

You need to get out more

As I said, it depends on your defintion of decent.

My definition would be [[at minimum) a well lit/clean/rat-free store, a variety of shelve items that don't have dust all over them, competitive prices with suburban markets, a well lit/maintained parking lots, a place where I can easily transport my grocery items to my car and not have to fight those pesky gates. and a store that doesn't have the smell of rotted food in it.

In the entire city, maybe 6 or 7 markets marginally fit this defintion, and 4 of these markets don't even have a fresh deli, bakery, pharmacy, etc. Quite frnakly I simply couldn't see myself eating the meat or produce from most of Detroit's markets.