Is Grid Heat a Human Right - A DTE Question

[oladub]

Setting aside the question of is heat being a human right, it would be more straightforward if government would pay for free heat directly than forcing utilities to provide free heat. Grocery stores don't have to provide free food because the government provides the down and out with food stamps. The results are the same to the recipient of such largess. It would be more honest for government to take the responsibility for it's decisions instead of instituting hidden taxes. Taxpayers, in theory, can vote out policy makers whom they disagree with. Other utility users, in contrast, find themselves in a situation of taxation without representation.

[Lowell]

Perhaps all who cannot be pay should be jailed @ of $30K a year to society.

Ridiculous, of course, but that is what often happens when people do not have the basics of life. They fill our jails, our emergency rooms, our shelters and leaky social safety net. I pay, we all pay, in higher insurance rates, taxes and social instability.

I don't yet know how it can be done fairly and in a accountable manner, but I think this great nation with its vast wealth can somehow guarantee a bare bones minimums of the basics of life to its citizens in need. These are food, shelter / clothing, health care, safety and educational opportunities.

This is a very complicated issue that can easily slip into divisive politics, but I think few that will deny that, at the very least, children should be guaranteed these as rights.

Assistance should be treated like an emergency line of credit. Should fortune again smile on those receiving it, they should be required pay back the loan with modest interest. Again I don't know the formula but public and political support to make this possible requires that any whiff of a free lunch or scamming be removed.

[mikeinmotown]

DTE has all types of programs to help people that can't pay their electric bills. Most of them want free electric. DTE will work with the customers to help them before they shut of the power. Shutting off the power is the last thing they want to do. A lot of customers will pay thier cell phone first because they will shut them down, then their cable because they will turn it off then not have any money to pay DTE because they can't shut of the power for several months. Does anyone see a problem here?

[Augustiner]

How many people live their lives in such a way that any drop in income brings bad results. Maybe we all need to live differrent.

Easy to say when you're making decent money to start with, but not all that easy to do when you can barely afford to live on what you earn.

Besides, our entire economy is built on people spending more money than they have. What would we do if everyone started living within their means, start building cars again?

[MizMotown]

And if you make a couple late payments and transfer service they want a deposit. They are definitely not playing around. Gots to gets what they can gets!

DTE has assistance programs, so do churches and other charities in the area. I agree that there are probably quite a few folks leaving the DTE bill for last after cell phones, gasoline, cable, casino, lottery, etc.... but for some others [[especially the elderly) heating and electric costs have risen and is hefty bill for alot of people, even the ones who can afford it. I do not agree that any service should be shut off during the winter.

Maybe the state needs to step in as with the bridge card to help those are resorting to propane heaters and illegial hookups which has the possibility of causing DEATH.

No easy answers.

[1KielsonDrive]

I see that the Michigan Citizen has an article about protests of DTE shut-offs, demanding that the State intervene because "heat is a human right."
Do you agree? How much grid heat is a human right - as much as you want? When exactly did grid heat [[as opposed to wood-burning stoves become a human right?
Disclosure: for budgetary reasons, my house is heated to 57 degrees at night and 62 degrees during the night. I wish sometimes to be warmer, but must keep costs down.

My temps are lower than yours - day and night. At least you have heat. Many people don't. Yes, safety and health [[and health care) are human rights.

[EastsideAl]

WOW, it is something to see what happened to the American humanity. It is something to see that in a country as great as America once was that now we show little compassion to our fellow man and woman. Amazing in this day and age that people could and do freeze to death in America. I guess if people back in 85 had the same feelings as they do today Live Aid would have been empty.
I sure hope that no one here finds themselves in the position where they have to huddle for warmth due to hardships.

Isn't is amazing? I find myself again and again commenting sadly these days about the increasing meanness of the American people. We're in a situation in which, as English correctly notes, pretty much everyone other than the very wealthy have a taken a de facto income cut, so I guess it's understandable that people would be protective of their dwindling resources. But one might also expect some sympathy from those being pinched for those who have been squeezed right out of our amazing shrinking economy.

But no, what I see far too often is the have-somes saying something like "screw you, freeze" to the have-nots. And the have-everythings, who seem to be the only ones benefiting from this economy [[and benefiting royally indeed) stomping their feet and whining "screw all the rest of you and anything you need, we want our taaaax cuuuuut!!"

Lowell says its all too easy to slip into divisive politics here. But when I look at this meanness, the lack of empathy for old people and children whose lives are put in danger for their inability to pay to heat their homes, the radical upward transfer of our national wealth over the past few decades, and a major national party that has been in power for most of that time that has campaigned openly against poor people, and that thinks it's just fine that poor people freeze to death while they stall an entire nation's business so that their hyper-rich buddies can get their tax cut, I see nothing but politics.

[Hypestyles]

...More must be done for the energy companies to expand their low-income assistance programs.. CEOs, take a pay cut.. board of directors, pledge to increase charity efforts..

[citylover]

I feel for those that have a hard time keeping up;I have that as well.Here is a story a friend told me recently.

My friend grew up and worked on a farm in Tecumseh.They had a dog.Spike was his name.My friend told me Spike was big.Spike reminded him of Cujo.One day the consumers power guy came out to read the meter............Spike chased him back to his car........... My friend watched as Spike chased the CP'S car down the long farm driveway_ and then the car stopped.Spike had punctured a tire on the car with his teeth!. Spike punctured other tires as well and eventually had his teeth filed down a bit.

[szla]

People are using the alternatives. There are neighborhoods everywhere where you smell the wood burning big time. At times it really stinks.

[firstandten]

There should be a ban on all winter utility shut-offs Nov 1- Apr 1 for people who can't pay. It should be extended to other than the elderly and disabled to include everyone. On Apr 2 start the shut-offs to force people to work out payment plans, and the payment plans should even be more flexible than they are now.

In some states because of degulation the utilities are getting out of the retailing of electricity and natural gas directly to customers. I've heard that it is cheaper to work with these companies that do nothing but retail vs a company like DTE or Consumers. Might be something to look into.

[BShea]

I'm so disappointed there's not yet been anyone on this thread demanding the government seize the utility companies.

[Detroitnerd]

I'm so disappointed there's not yet been anyone on this thread demanding the government seize the utility companies.

Me too.

[rb336]

DTE has all types of programs to help people that can't pay their electric bills. Most of them want free electric. DTE will work with the customers to help them before they shut of the power.

or so they claim. You actually have to go through a charity to get anything done.

[1KielsonDrive]

Me too.

Me three! Me four!

[1KielsonDrive]

or so they claim. You actually have to go through a charity to get anything done.

Even if you had to go through DTE, you'd never get anything done. Call the 800 number. Hold, hold, hold, hold.......Talk to someone. Not my department. Talk to another someone. Not my department. Talk to another someone. Hold while I check this out. Hold, hold, hold......I'm sorry, you have to call back again between the hours of ....... May I have a direct number? No. You have to call the 800 number. May I speak to the person I spoke to before so I don't have to explain everything again? I'm sorry you have to call the 800 number. Can you call me back. No, we're not allowed to do that. When can someone come out? Next week between the hours of..... Oh, oh, wrong department showed up. My heat's still off. Call the 800 number. Hold, hold, hold.......Sorry, we sent the wrong people out. You need the outside people, not the inside people. When can we do this? Hold, hold, hold......Next week between the hours of...... On and on, ad infinitum. DTE and COMCAST - the evil twins.

[Detroitnerd]

Whenever you essentially have a monopoly like DTE or Comcast, it does become a much more attractive idea to fold them into the government somehow. As somebody old enough to remember the Bell system, in those days, if something went wrong, you knew who to complain to, and there was a certain level of accountability.

[ja!mz]

Obama has to sieze the utility companies! Call the White House...I need my utility bailout! I need to be able to afford to charge my Volt!

[vivadetroit]

Well, if you get a shut-off notice and you call to try to get it resolved, they transfer the call -- without you knowing -- to a debt resolution place called GreenPath. I worked at GP for a few months and I hated the DTE referrals. DTE made some deal with GreenPath & refers its clients to GP since obviously people who don't pay their utilities MUST have some mega financial problems [[that is what I was told when I asked why I had to badger these poor people about their finances). What they try to do is get the person who owes DTE to get on one of their "debt management plans" and get on track. They don't tell you that the plan could run up to $50 per month, which for all that, you could be sending that $50 to DTE & get your power on.

I thought it was horrible and refused to nag poor people who had just received a shutoff notice. There is help if you get a shut off notice - call the LIHEAP program [[1-800-292-5650). It is especially helpful if you are elderly, have kids or disabled. Pls share it with anyone who might need it this winter!

[Jimaz]

I heard a story earlier today about a group that was in the business of buying debt [[and thus the right to collect it). Having already bought it, they were highly motivated to collect to recoup their investment.

They committed a long list of abuses including profanity and calling employers, family members, etc. Apparently they overstepped the bounds somewhere because the Federal Trade Commission cracked down on them. The FTC levied a fine on them but they lacked sufficient financial resources to pay.

No doubt one of their cohorts bought the right to collect that fine. I wonder what techniques they used to collect?

They eat their own.

[RYANGUARD]

I saw in the paper today that IIRC DTE and Consumers to get raise their rates due to non-payments.So anyone who pays their bill gets to subsidize others who don't.Thanks MPSC!!

[Wykkidx]

I saw in the paper today that IIRC DTE and Consumers to get raise their rates due to non-payments.So anyone who pays their bill gets to subsidize others who don't.Thanks MPSC!!

That is just their latest excuse to raise their rates, please do not be fooled. They raise their rates when people conserve power to lower their bill, stating that they need to raise the rate to make up for lower usage. They claim to need to raise their rates when bad weather hits to pay for repairs, to make up for people stealing power, or for the price of coal. BUT in all of that, it is amazing that their CEO's, CFO's and COO's always get a raise. They are no better than the oil companies.

[detroitsgwenivere]

There is a program being offered by DTE called Neighborhood Energy Savings Outreach [[NESO). For now it is available to DTE customers in Detroit, Highland Park, and Hamtramck. Basically, the program will send a home-energy consultant from WARM Training Center and an installer from SEEL to your home to help you save money on your utility bills. You will receive some low-cost energy efficiency measures for free and installed, like pipewrap, sink aerators, CFLs, and a water saving showerhead. The consultant will give you some tips on what you can do to help cut down on energy loss. Call 877.497.2191 to set up an appointment.

[Jimaz]

Related stories from two Winters ago regarding the tragic death of Marvin E. Schur:

Man freezes to death after [Bay City] limits electricity

A 93-year-old man froze to death inside his home just days after the municipal power company restricted his use of electricity because of unpaid bills, officials said.

Schur had no children and his wife had died several years ago.

Update on Marvin Schur's tragic death

Neighbors of Marvin Schur believe that the workers from Bay City who installed the "limiter" failed to advise him on resetting it if it did shut off.

Neighbors of Marvin Schur believe the 93 year old gentleman may have had difficulty understanding directions regarding the limiter if the Bay City workers tried to explain the device due to possible early stage dementia.

When Marvin Schur's body was discovered by the neighbors, the overdue electrical bill was sitting on his kitchen table......... with some cash clipped to it so that he could pay his bill.

Marvin Schur fallout: State regulators further limit utility shutoffs

State regulators on Wednesday issued emergency rules to keep more people from losing electricity or heat in the winter, weeks after a 93-year-old Bay City man froze to death inside his house.

The new rules, however, do not apply to municipal utilities like the one that put a "limiter" on Marvin Schur's electric meter after four months of unpaid bills. The device restricts power and blows like a fuse if usage rises past a set level. Electricity is not restored until the device is flipped back on by the homeowner, who must walk outside to the meter.

Marvin Schur leaves 'everything' to Bay Regional Medical Center

The world learned Wednesday that Schur, 93, left his entire estate - reportedly worth about $600,000 - to Bay Regional Medical Center, according to relatives who said lawyers informed them of Schur's gift.

[tallboy66]

There should be a ban on all winter utility shut-offs Nov 1- Apr 1 for people who can't pay. It should be extended to other than the elderly and disabled to include everyone. On Apr 2 start the shut-offs to force people to work out payment plans, and the payment plans should even be more flexible than they are now.

When I lived in Detroit I was on a plan, it was the same amount all year based on an average. Yeah it seemed strange to get a $30 gas bill in July but it kept the heat on.

Plus if you have an old stove, meaning the pilot light is on all the time find the shut off valve and only use it when you want to cook, it saved me $8 a month, really.