Why does Detroit have no row houses or brownstones?!

[lilpup]

I did not realize any thread on DYES has a "focus"...


The lack of easily sourced material is one of the reasons we don't see that style of building much in Michigan. I didn't say it was the only reason.

Brownstone was available in Michigan. The reason use of brownstone stopped [[and is no longer used - today's materials are mimics) is that it's a very soft sandstone prone to failure.

You just need to open your eyes to see that there was no lack of stone used for building here - just typically NOT in smaller housing projects.

[Mikeg]

For a peek at the differing types of residential structures that existed side-by-side on the edge of downtown Detroit just one hundred years ago, Shorpy.com just happens to give us today this circa 1910 photo of three residential structures on Center St., just west of the Harmonie Club building [[which is not shown).

Here is the comment I've submitted to Shorpy regarding this photo:

The Milner Hotel now occupies the spot where this building once stood [Google Street View].

According to the 1910 Detroit Polk City Directory, the building at the right in the 1910 photo was 31 Center St. and was occupied by Henry M. Catton. The building at the left was the "Central Apartments" at 35-41 Center St. 33 Center St. was the "Central Annex" and you can see that there is a connection between the Annex and the larger Central Apartments building. Residing at 33 Center St. were Caroline M. McNeil, James E. Clark, Mrs. Julia Clark [[milliner), Harry Goldstein, Leon E. Bastendorf, Mrs. Nellie Frazier and John M. Caswell. Perhaps one of the residents of the Annex gained notoriety, prompting the photograph of their residence?

[DetroitDad]

Townhomes, brownstones, and row house blocks abound in Detroit, but are often nearly gone or in the worst shape, since they are often the oldest, or newer failed attempts. I must say, this is the type of housing I am interested in in the city, which makes other cities that much more desirable. Not surprisingly, this is the type of housing that sells for higher prices in Detroit.

Some great examples that you may be over looking [[the list gets better as you go, but the beginning is worth checking out).;

1. Detroit's oldest brownstone located in the central business district.
2. A beautiful little home near Cass Park.
3. Nicely restored section of brownstones in Brush Park, with tons of newer condo "town homes" next door and across the street.
4. Some more brownstones in Brush Park. These ones are in need of some TLC.
5. I know these are more like mini apartments, but am not sure exactly what to call them. I love them though. Notice the little gated walk into the back yard/gardens that lie behind this building. Each of these two are owned by different owners. One owner takes very good care of his building, the other is an absent landlord.
6. Another block of brownstones up in Midtown/New Center. I love the curving front steps on these ones. These are what I would love to live in, or rather live in what they used to be.
7. That same block as #6, only from down the block, with nice infill all around it.
8. Not row houses, but a beautifully done section of small urban commercial buildings on Woodward, in New Center.
9. Some newer town homes located in New Center, near Boston Edison.
10. While plenty are not exactly row houses, town homes, or brown stones, many are in this quaint a highly desirable well manicured block in Corktown. This is one of my favorite neighborhoods in the City of Detroit.
11. Another nice block in Corktown.
12. Another near perfect block in Corktown.
13. Another nice block in Corktown.
14. Another nice block in Corktown.
15. Another nice block in Corktown.
16. Actually, I could sit here all day and show you examples. This one is in Mexican Town's Clark Park area. Note that many single family homes in Detroit are more urban than your typical home, as only a tiny sidewalk or less is in between homes. There are no driveways along side these homes.
17. I'll stop for now with this last addition. This street has little chance of coming back, but looks like it was once a beautiful place to live. This last one leaves you with the fabulous and tragic ruins of Detroit.

[DetroitDad]

More of those odd apartments [[pictured above in #5), that are actually all over the city. These ones are in a much more desolate area. Obviously, these must have been regular construction types at one time or another. Link: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie...29.34,,0,-6.57

[Zacha341]

Thank you for your work in putting together that collection. Nice! I recall that last edition [[see below) from when I was in Jr. High as my school was around the corner from those home. They were nice and very quaint. I recall the brick work and nice layout. Too bad it's now a ruin...

1. I'll stop for now with this last addition. This street has little chance of coming back, but looks like it was once a beautiful place to live. This last one leaves you with the fabulous and tragic ruins of Detroit.

[Ravine]

Off-topic, here, with alla this Corktown stuff, but what the hell; in case the owner is a DY member, I'm going to toss this in:

The white house on the corner of Church, one block east of Rosa Parks Blvd., is fabulous, to my eyes. The damn thing is enormous, and the exterior & property are very well kept-up.

Sometimes, I drive by it on my way home from work, just to look at it.

[BrushStart]

Townhomes, brownstones, and row house blocks abound in Detroit, but are often nearly gone or in the worst shape, since they are often the oldest, or newer failed attempts. I must say, this is the type of housing I am interested in in the city, which makes other cities that much more desirable. Not surprisingly, this is the type of housing that sells for higher prices in Detroit.

Some great examples that you may be over looking [[the list gets better as you go, but the beginning is worth checking out).;

1. Detroit's oldest brownstone located in the central business district.
2. A beautiful little home near Cass Park.
3. Nicely restored section of brownstones in Brush Park, with tons of newer condo "town homes" next door and across the street.
4. Some more brownstones in Brush Park. These ones are in need of some TLC.
5. I know these are more like mini apartments, but am not sure exactly what to call them. I love them though. Notice the little gated walk into the back yard/gardens that lie behind this building. Each of these two are owned by different owners. One owner takes very good care of his building, the other is an absent landlord.
6. Another block of brownstones up in Midtown/New Center. I love the curving front steps on these ones. These are what I would love to live in, or rather live in what they used to be.
7. That same block as #6, only from down the block, with nice infill all around it.
8. Not row houses, but a beautifully done section of small urban commercial buildings on Woodward, in New Center.
9. Some newer town homes located in New Center, near Boston Edison.
10. While plenty are not exactly row houses, town homes, or brown stones, many are in this quaint a highly desirable well manicured block in Corktown. This is one of my favorite neighborhoods in the City of Detroit.
11. Another nice block in Corktown.
12. Another near perfect block in Corktown.
13. Another nice block in Corktown.
14. Another nice block in Corktown.
15. Another nice block in Corktown.
16. Actually, I could sit here all day and show you examples. This one is in Mexican Town's Clark Park area. Note that many single family homes in Detroit are more urban than your typical home, as only a tiny sidewalk or less is in between homes. There are no driveways along side these homes.
17. I'll stop for now with this last addition. This street has little chance of coming back, but looks like it was once a beautiful place to live. This last one leaves you with the fabulous and tragic ruins of Detroit.

Great post! Those are definitely some examples of Detroit-style brownstones and row houses. Perhaps the answer to my original question is that once upon a time, Detroit had many row houses and brownstones, but somewhere down the line they were replaced with single family dwellings or demolished for other reasons. It is pretty obvious that where you see a series of two row houses side-by-side, such as the ones on John R., that at one time the whole street must have been lined with them. I really dig those original brownstones in Brush Park, so I hope they preserve those vacant ones before they go the way of the castle house. Also, your #17 example is Spaulding Court. There is a group of people putting together a plan to rehab it. Google "Friends of Spaulding Court" and a bunch of stuff will come up, including YouTube Videos, fundraisers they have on the premises, what their plan is, how to get involved, etc. There are also lots of photos on Flickr.com.

[Rolfsy]

Thanks for posting those pics - grew up in the 'Burgh and neighborhoods like that are something that was 'missing' when we moved here decades years ago. [[The flat and featureless 'moonscape' of SE MI literally gave me vertigo for the first few weeks I was here. Didn't help that we moved into a treeless dirt McSub near 12 oaks)

Cheap/easy-to-clear land, cheap gas, and neighborhoods built to accomodate our #1 export explain why everything is so spread out. Never thought about the rowhouses existing before the fires, and much later, expressway clearance though. Makes sense. Rowhouses in the 40s and 50s must have been considered a yucky residue.

Tying it in to the 'thicker' thread... it occured to me today that our region may not be 'confused' as to the value of a real city, or a hapless victim of car-centric design - it's just that we've never been able to stand each other. It's been essential that Detroiters stay as far away from each other as possible. [[with two cars in between as a buffer, if possible).

[Detroitnerd]

The neighborhoods that had that style of abutting buildings with porches are largely gone. There were a few, for instance, where the new casino is, where Plum Street used to be. When you have large developments looking for land near downtown, you're going to lose most of them, because they were mostly confined to downtown and the area around it.

And, as others have noted, even so, Detroit tended much more toward the large lot, wide street, discrete house manner of development, especially post-1915.

[Pushtina]

We've also got the Luxury Brownstones at Clark Estates to look forward to.

from DetroitFunk:
http://www.detroitfunk.com/?p=3921

Er... maybe not...

[Patrick]

Detroitdad....thanks a lot for taking the time to cobble together those links! Lil off topic....I once read that all the Brownstone material for the homes in NYC came from the UP. Brownstone and Sandstone are identical right?

[detroitind]

sorry not good at fancy posting but this is my favorite overlooked terrace building in detroit. It has stood proud since 1895. Granted when I think of row house I think of individual houses with connected walls. This has all brick common side walls with uniform common face. Still each unit stand 3 tall with walk up stone porches, stone lower level and are roughly 12 feet wide each.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=...71.33,,0,-0.82

[Gistok]

Are all of the attached homes/condos in Grosse Pointe City on and near the St. Paul/Rivard area considered row houses? Or are they just apartment units? If they are considered row houses, my guess is that this would be the largest accummulation of them in metro Detroit.... as well as the finest.

[Zacha341]

Simply wonderful! Imagine built in 1895... Nice brick work indeed.

sorry not good at fancy posting but this is my favorite overlooked terrace building in detroit. It has stood proud since 1895. Granted when I think of row house I think of individual houses with connected walls. This has all brick common side walls with uniform common face. Still each unit stand 3 tall with walk up stone porches, stone lower level and are roughly 12 feet wide each.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=...71.33,,0,-0.82

[masterblaster]

Here is a thread from 2 years ago about this topic. In the middle of the page you will see pictures that I posted of rowhouse-type housing in Dexter-Davison, North End, New Center, and Russell-Woods.

http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/125438/128718.html

[masterblaster]

There are also two LONG sets of 1920's rowhouse-type housing in Dearborn on Schaefer street. They are both on the east side of Schaefer in the vicinity of Warren Av/Ford Road/Michigan Ave.

[wolverine]

Detroit is a "new" city in terms of its built environment. Alot of the cities with rowhomes were mostly built up in the late 1800's very early 1900's. Load bearing brick construction was the norm and land was also at a premium.

Many Michigan towns were fortunate [[and looking back today...maybe unfortunate) that the lumber industry was so popular. Wood was readily available, so that's why you see alot of detached single family housing of wood construction. You'd never want to build rowhomes out of wood, just think of what would happen if there were a fire.

Detroit actually does not have rowhouses [[by architectural definition) Detroit has duplexes and multi unit buildings. And yes, I've looked at all the images posted. For example, I can think of one in Brush Park and several in Southwest Detroit that "kind of look like" rowhouses but are in reality just one single building subdivided. They don't have party wall construction. You can't just demolish one and be left with the rest. I suppose you could try, but you'd end up with a mess...like the building on westminster and woodward that had to be heavily patched up on the side + the building [[and many others like it in Detroit) has a unified attic, which is not characteristic of rowhouse architecture

If you want to see some real nice rowhouses you aren't too far. Many Ohio cities have some rich rowhouses architecture...Cincinnati being the midwest capitol of this type of construction. Chicago has some, but we are more known for our greystone, brick 3 flats, and courtyard buildings. Chicago's East Garfield Park is loaded with tons of great rowhouses of varying architecture

[Pingu]

Quantum Theory: Unlike any other place, Detroit was jolted by sudden massive success, and the nouveau bourgeoisie, with cars, cash, and cornfields aplenty, built houses, and basically leaped over the whole brownstone phase.

[Zacha341]

Nice photos MB... and nice to see homes and interest here re. the west side, especially areas I rarely here mentioned on DYes. Ewals Circle has been long known for its beautiful brick homes, Russell Woods too. Too bad many of these are now ruins. Thanks for the photos.

Here is a thread from 2 years ago about this topic. In the middle of the page you will see pictures that I posted of rowhouse-type housing in Dexter-Davison, North End, New Center, and Russell-Woods.

http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/125438/128718.html

[canuck]

wolverine/If you want to see some real nice rowhouses you aren't too far. Many Ohio cities have some rich rowhouses architecture...Cincinnati being the midwest capitol of this type of construction. Chicago has some, but we are more known for our greystone, brick 3 flats, and courtyard buildings. Chicago's East Garfield Park is loaded with tons of great rowhouses of varying architecture

Chicago is the one american city that most resembles Montreal for its plex architecture, especially the walkups with wrought iron staircases and just the general feel of the residential districts plus the commercial streets. I do enjoy the density of a lot of Detroit architecture though. A lot of these big 3 story homes have plenty space for two families and deserve to remain a vital art of a newer Detroit. The density can come from rehabs that makes more out of the existing structures or form new projects sensitive to the style of Detroits old homes.
One of the denser and neglected features of Detroit's built environment are its commercial streets. I think that they have suffered more than the residential streets through attrition. For those who have the mobility it seems, shopping can be done far and away from their neighborhoods. It would be really nice to see more small businesses take hold on the streets that are near higher density neighborhoods. I know its hard to tackle all the issues affecting Detroit, but I do think small businesses lining up those streets will do a lot to improve immediate quality of life issues including employment.

[jsmyers]

Detroit actually does not have rowhouses [[by architectural definition) Detroit has duplexes and multi unit buildings. And yes, I've looked at all the images posted. For example, I can think of one in Brush Park and several in Southwest Detroit that "kind of look like" rowhouses but are in reality just one single building subdivided. They don't have party wall construction. You can't just demolish one and be left with the rest. I suppose you could try, but you'd end up with a mess...like the building on westminster and woodward that had to be heavily patched up on the side + the building [[and many others like it in Detroit) has a unified attic, which is not characteristic of rowhouse architecture

Thank you for pointing out that distinction. I was thinking that "those aren't really row houses" as I was looking through the threads.

Can somebody explain one thing to me. It traditional row houses or other attached but independent structures, are there two separate walls that are either touching or are only separated by a tiny space, or is there one wall that supports both buildings?

If there are two separate walls, what did they do to keep them plumb and how did the manage the minute crevice between them?

[wolverine]

Traditionally, two walls. Each house could stand on its own if its neighbor was demolished. The type of stuff you see going up nowadays around Detroit either has cmu block fire separation or a heavy stud wall with a ton of gypsum board to meet life safety requirements. In those cases it's a single wall. After all these, buildings are trying to emulate old fashioned towne house architecture.

If there was a gap between two brick walls, it was never much of a big deal back then....at least now-a-days we know more. Walls weren't all that high, and yes at times the result of settling would cause one home to possibly lean against another. I've seen demolitions where they deliberately left the exterior wall of a demolished home remaining to support another.

[tallboy66]

If I remember Detroit was built as an affordable single family home city and without decent mass transit and the auto being primary transportation a driveway was necessary so now rows could be built.

The boom was in the 50's so wood frame construction was the thing and it helped to make it affordable.

Many of the greystones in Chicago used to be single family homes for the wealthy they just got converted into upper/lower apts or condos.

Finally Detroit burned,burned and burned the rest were torn or fell down after being vacant since 1968.

They did a decent job of building some wood frame/brick face walk ups in the Old Brush Park/Comerica Park vicinity.

[Umbound]

In my opinion-being that I used to be an Arch/Urban planning major. This is one of the reasons why I want to move east coast for grad school and beyond. As much as I love and appreciate Detroit's style of 'having your own backyard'. I see many styles of those homes of friends of mine who live inner-ring suburbs and i'd rather see brownstones/rowhouses in many [[not all) of Detroits neighborhoods rather then the 1950's built ranch style homes I have seen. Because it still gives me a thought might be in the suburbs, and with all do respect to anybody. It might sound shallow probably to say or think that but I do feel in some of the city's neighborhoods it does not feel urban enough for someone my age.

[rjlj]

Go back to grammer school first.

In my opinion-being that I used to be an Arch/Urban planning major. This is one of the reasons why I want to move east coast for grad school and beyond. As much as I love and appreciate Detroit's style of 'having your own backyard'. I see many styles of those homes of friends of mine who live inner-ring suburbs and i'd rather see brownstones/rowhouses in many [[not all) of Detroits neighborhoods rather then the 1950's built ranch style homes I have seen. Because it still gives me a thought might be in the suburbs, and with all do respect to anybody. It might sound shallow probably to say or think that but I do feel in some of the city's neighborhoods it does not feel urban enough for someone my age.