You know what downtown needs...

[BrushStart]

Brushstart,

There are a number of options that you are either unaware of, or simply discounting out of hand.

Perhaps downtown Detroit doesn't have a coffee shop with an "environment" conducive to sitting around for 3-4 hours without "feeling strange". I don't have any suggestions for a person who seeks to find a place where they can spend two bucks on a coffee and then spend half of the day occupying a table "getting work done".

"there's nothing open late except bars, strip clubs, and casinos. Places where I can grab a cheap meal, sit and read the paper, and have coffee with friends do not exist. I'm talking about basic shit."

If you want a place that is open late, where you can grab a cheap meal, read the paper, and have coffee with friends, go to American Coney Island, Lafayette Coney Island, or Nikki's in Greektown. They are all open late 7 days a week, serve cheap food, and will let you sit around for hours drinking coffee with your friends.

'You want to know why living downtown is expensive? It's not because my rent is astronomical. It's because getting a decent sandwich for under $8 on a Sunday is next to impossible."

Every restaurant in Greektown is open on Sunday, mostly with very reasonable prices. The Bucharest Grill is open late 7 days a week, serving excellent food at very low prices.

"I can get an expensive fish dinner at 5 places within a mile of my apartment, yet I can't get an omelette with toast without going for a car ride."

That is bullshit. Plaka serves breakfast 24/7 in Greektown. Fishbones serves breakfast 7 days a week. Greektown Casino serves breakfast and breakfast buffets 7 days a week. Forans/ Grand Trunk has an excellent breakfast/brunch service on the weekends. And on weekdays, you can get breakfast at dozens of places downtown.

Detroit offers more features and amenities than most people realize. To be sure, we don't have the same amount that you will find in Manhattan, SF, or inside the Chicago loop, but we also don't have the sky-high rents that you will pay in those premium areas.

If you are not satisfied with the retail and service options in downtown Detroit, you can help by supporting the businesses that we currently have, which will make our community more attractive to additional business investment, or you can start your own business
to fill a void in the local market. If you do not want to be part of the solution in Detroit, you can move to a city that has more retail options and amenities, and pay far more for rent.

However, if you want to enjoy the cheap housing in Detroit, while complaining about how it isn't as good as the elite cities of the world, and do nothing to help the situation, you can go fuck off.

Detroit sucks if you don't know anything about the city. If you can't figure out where to get a good late night meal or a weekend breakfast downtown, then move to NYC. The $800 you spend on a sweet downtown high rise or loft in Detroit will probably get you a shitty walk-up in Queens, but there might be a 24/7 diner like Plaka and a Starbucks in your neighborhood.

Whoa, man... I know there are a number of places, I was just trying to convey that most have hours designed for event goers, not downtown residents. I enjoy living downtown. It's fun being a part of the elite group of "downtowners." I've also been to every place you listed. Plaka's is the one true 24-hour diner downtown, and I do go there although I'm not a huge fan. I'm also not much for casino buffets...

[wolverine]

There's no obscurity of distance in this regard. I'm closer to Detroit proper than you are. And I endeavor to play the devil's advocate in this matter, and I get this as a response? Lovely.

Mockery and dissention are part and parcel of a healthy discussion. I mean, how many times does the same stuff get mentioned, i.e. I wish we had...[[insert flavor or half baked idea of the month)? I mean, come on.

For what it's worth, I have never, ever derided Slow's or Avalon bakery. They serve their demographic quite well, as well as are solid businesses and, from what I can see, have a solid business plan. Of course Slow's was helped along by the owner's family, and if anyone had that kind of backing, perhaps there would be more successful businesses in the area, but I digress.

I, for one, feel that the City needs new businesses, but there's no way that any independent can cobble together a "Central Perk" type of coffee shop, without the critical mass of a dedicated and loyal clientele. And what the OP and others fail to address is the police and crime aspect of the varied and sundry cities mentioned in a whole lot of other posts. Royal Oak, Chicago, et al. All have one thing in common, a more responsive police force. Once the city decides to address crime, and the people that patronize businesses in the city from within and without the city stop using the hard working businesses as their own personal 5 finger discount shopping source, then maybe, just maybe, you will get what you want.

.

The coffee houses I had in mind don't necessarily occupy the wealthy northside neighborhoods of Chicago or post graduate hoods on the westside. I've frequented coffee houses in Logan square and humboldt park that share or have shared very similar problems as Detroit. They were cheap startups that came back during the "remember when these streets were hard" times. While crime is still out of control in humboldt park, people are still moving in and the businesses are changing for the better.


Downtown Detroit..... different city, same story....

[Stosh]

.

The coffee houses I had in mind don't necessarily occupy the wealthy northside neighborhoods of Chicago or post graduate hoods on the westside. I've frequented coffee houses in Logan square and humboldt park that share or have shared very similar problems as Detroit. They were cheap startups that came back during the "remember when these streets were hard" times. While crime is still out of control in humboldt park, people are still moving in and the businesses are changing for the better.


Downtown Detroit..... different city, same story....

You know, pissing about this whole thing is just non productive. I like the idea of having a non-profit cafe, located in either a church space, or a building that is owned by a non-profit organization of some sort. That way, the whole thing gets to actually serve the community in some form, gets to be what they want to be without much interference from the City, and avoids the tax ramifications that are the death knell of some start ups. Here's a link to a guy that actually has done it, and the video from vimeo that details the whole story of the founding of this place.

http://eugenecho.wordpress.com/2009/...ommunity-cafe/

http://vimeo.com/5923365
There are lots of non-profit organizations that populate Detroit, downtown and in Midtown. A person interested in creating something of this sort may be more successful to actually start up something like that. Public good is always a motivator, someone more idealistic and with more energy than I may be interested in this concept.

As a teen, I was kept off the street by a church based youth community center. While it was short lived, it impressed upon me the need for such a thing, and it's really rare to see churches that actually do this. The coffee shop concept may also serve to be a community builder of sorts in Detroit. Thoughts?

[HazenPingree]

Addition to the open coffee shops already mentioned in other posts, the coffee shop attached to 1515 Broadway is pretty decent.

There are also a few shops in progress!

• Astro Coffee is opening on the Slow's block. The owner is amazing, and I am confident that the shop will be fantastic.
• A sign has been installed on the Beethoven for "The Bottom Line," also a coffee shop coming soon, but I don't know any details.
• There are plans for a tea shop in 71 Garfield in the Sugar Hill Arts District.
• I also know that there are a few prospective business owners who are exploring opening coffee shops somewhere in Midtown.

[canuck]

What bothers me is that this type of small business which is underrepresented in Detroit is also the type that would give people jobs in a host of industries peripherally. It really is strange how the downtown has come to this. I guess the proper way to start a business like that is to identify a busy enough area for viability and security. If small concentrations of shops are helped along, bigger areas will follow. If parking is such a sacrosanct thing in the D, well so be it, dont let city authorities gouge drivers and hinder development in the core. The future transit opportunities if or when they come will balance things out. That may be why incentives from property owners and the state are important. Michigan is not a state with a huge debt, it can afford to prop up Detroit. When the M-1 rail does happen, there will be a reinvestment of the corridor which will definitely attract attention from other parts of town and business people will be more vocal about getting action in there quarters.

[English]

Addition to the open coffee shops already mentioned in other posts, the coffee shop attached to 1515 Broadway is pretty decent.

There are also a few shops in progress!

• Astro Coffee is opening on the Slow's block. The owner is amazing, and I am confident that the shop will be fantastic.
• A sign has been installed on the Beethoven for "The Bottom Line," also a coffee shop coming soon, but I don't know any details.
• There are plans for a tea shop in 71 Garfield in the Sugar Hill Arts District.
• I also know that there are a few prospective business owners who are exploring opening coffee shops somewhere in Midtown.

Thanks for this! I mean, when it comes to coffee shops and the like, things in the CBD are a sight better than they were 8-10 years ago, and Midtown is like an entirely different place.

[DetroitDad]

Because your name is Stosh? You remind me of a poster that I really miss on here called Livernois Yard... I wonder what ever happened to him, his posting style is almost identical to yours.

Anger? Why I could not imagine why you would think that...

[DetroitPlanner]

Addition to the open coffee shops already mentioned in other posts, the coffee shop attached to 1515 Broadway is pretty decent.

There are also a few shops in progress!

• Astro Coffee is opening on the Slow's block. The owner is amazing, and I am confident that the shop will be fantastic.
• A sign has been installed on the Beethoven for "The Bottom Line," also a coffee shop coming soon, but I don't know any details.
• There are plans for a tea shop in 71 Garfield in the Sugar Hill Arts District.
• I also know that there are a few prospective business owners who are exploring opening coffee shops somewhere in Midtown.

Unfortunately none of those are 'Downtown'. I am pretty sure the original request was for places in the CBD. Thanks for the info on Sugar Hill Arts District. Quite frankly I never heard of it. I work on infastructure, policy, and funding issues so stuff about the arts flies under my radar.

[DetroitDad]

No, no ,no ,no!

You aren't seeing BrushStart's vission. While we don't have one of these places in Downtown Detroit, we do have one in one of our satellite town centers; Plymouth Michigan. Check out the Plymouth Coffee Bean, which is the longest running coffee shop in Michigan. They revolve around coffee music, art, and poetry. I can't seem to find any descent pictures of the interior, but it is set up in the style of a former house, slightly similar to the Whitney.... it's warm and welcoming. Detroit's could be that, or something totally different, but the atmosphere would remain the same.

Brush Start, have you been there? Is that what you had in mind?

PS; Check out Jazzy Cafe Downtown, just off Harmony Park. Also, check out the lobby bar at the Leland Building in the AM and afternoon, as well as the food court at the Russell Industrial Center, on the weekends.

[BrushStart]

No, no ,no ,no!

You aren't seeing BrushStart's vission. While we don't have one of these places in Downtown Detroit, we do have one in one of our satellite town centers; Plymouth Michigan. Check out the Plymouth Coffee Bean, which is the longest running coffee shop in Michigan. They revolve around coffee music, art, and poetry. I can't seem to find any descent pictures of the interior, but it is set up in the style of a former house, slightly similar to the Whitney.... it's warm and welcoming. Detroit's could be that, or something totally different, but the atmosphere would remain the same.

Brush Start, have you been there? Is that what you had in mind?

PS; Check out Jazzy Cafe Downtown, just off Harmony Park. Also, check out the lobby bar at the Leland Building in the AM and afternoon, as well as the food court at the Russell Industrial Center, on the weekends.

I actually have been to the "Bean" in Plymouth on several occasions. It has a good beatnik-esq atmosphere and it serves as a neighborhood hangout spot, mostly for teens, but a cool place nonetheless. Plymouth also once had a coffee shop/hookah bar that served as a similar neighborhood hangout, but it closed many years ago. A place like this would definitely be nice to have downtown- especially because it would draw an older more sophisticated crowd than the places in Plymouth. So, yeah, I was thinking of a place very similar to the Bean, or or perhaps that coffee shop in Birmingham, whose name is currently escaping me...

Unfortunately, I never made it to Espresso Jazzy Cafe. I say with major regret that I didn't know it existed, despite having walked through that part of town all the time [[erikd I stand partially corrected). However, I don't know if they are still open... when I went to their Facebook page, it says that they served their last cup of coffee on August 10th of this year. If nobody knows, I'm going to walk by tomorrow or the next day to see if they are still open and I'll update everyone. If I forget, please remind me.

[DetroitDad]

I actually have been to the "Bean" in Plymouth on several occasions. It has a good beatnik-esq atmosphere and it serves as a neighborhood hangout spot, mostly for teens, but a cool place nonetheless. Plymouth also once had a coffee shop/hookah bar that served as a similar neighborhood hangout, but it closed many years ago. A place like this would definitely be nice to have downtown- especially because it would draw an older more sophisticated crowd than the places in Plymouth. So, yeah, I was thinking of a place very similar to the Bean, or or perhaps that coffee shop in Birmingham, whose name is currently escaping me...

Unfortunately, I never made it to Espresso Jazzy Cafe. I say with major regret that I didn't know it existed, despite having walked through that part of town all the time [[erikd I stand partially corrected). However, I don't know if they are still open... when I went to their Facebook page, it says that they served their last cup of coffee on August 10th of this year. If nobody knows, I'm going to walk by tomorrow or the next day to see if they are still open and I'll update everyone. If I forget, please remind me.

Well that truly is depressing. I went there all the time when I worked on that block. Please do, I'll check it out too, when I get the chance.

Bora, Bora's Bistro in Novi is also interesting, along with the various places in Dearborn. Actually, there used to also be a coffee shop next to Bora, Bora's that had couches and the like, but it wasn't very inviting, in my opinion. It felt like a Starbucks.

[Stosh]

Because your name is Stosh? You remind me of a poster that I really miss on here called Livernois Yard... I wonder what ever happened to him, his posting style is almost identical to yours.

I wonder what happened to Sean of Detroit as well. And no, I am not LY.
You seem to be getting old, longing for the good old days... funny.

[DetroitDad]

I wonder what happened to Sean of Detroit as well. And no, I am not LY.
You seem to be getting old, longing for the good old days... funny.

I never said you were.

[Hermod]

Michigan is not a state with a huge debt, it can afford to prop up Detroit.

In what alternate reality do you live??

[softailrider]

Addition to the open coffee shops already mentioned in other posts, the coffee shop attached to 1515 Broadway is pretty decent.

There are also a few shops in progress!

• Astro Coffee is opening on the Slow's block. The owner is amazing, and I am confident that the shop will be fantastic.
• A sign has been installed on the Beethoven for "The Bottom Line," also a coffee shop coming soon, but I don't know any details.
• There are plans for a tea shop in 71 Garfield in the Sugar Hill Arts District.
• I also know that there are a few prospective business owners who are exploring opening coffee shops somewhere in Midtown.

With all due respect, whoever is planning to open a tea shop at 71 Garfield needs to get their head examined.

[DetroitPlanner]

Looks like Coffee Shop owners may be trending away from stuff like wifi.

“I don’t think I’d ever do a bigger space with tables and chairs again,” Ms. Bell said. “I appreciate the idea of when you go someplace and it feels like a home away from home, but I don’t think it should be a home office away from home.” -New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/25/di...ffee.html?_r=1

[Blue]

a coffee shop with couches and tables and a laid back atmosphere where I can walk down and do some work, read a book, and hang out with people from the neighborhood.

yes you are right!
that is a good idea.
How are we going to do this?
i am in.

[canuck]

yes you are right!
that is a good idea.
How are we going to do this?
i am in.

What's with the positivism already? You're in for some punishment!

[canuck]

In what alternate reality do you live??

Canada, Florida? I love the way we couch our language in reality/unreality to suit the argument. Ontario and Quebec have enormous debts, and I am not suggesting Michigan follow our lead in that respect but I think it has room to maneuver. Maybe your elected officials can legislate to slack off on the suburban sprawl [[reality). Maybe then they can help inject a dose of [[dreaminess) unreality into what still is the metropolis of Michigan. More planning to accomodate pedestrian activity and a more festive atmosphere will be better for businesses and people.

I mean the question Brushstart asks is legitimate, and expresses the need Detroiters have for a fancy break away from so-called reality, maybe!?

Same in your neck of the woods, Hermod?

[Hermod]

Canada, Florida? I love the way we couch our language in reality/unreality to suit the argument. Ontario and Quebec have enormous debts, and I am not suggesting Michigan follow our lead in that respect but I think it has room to maneuver. Maybe your elected officials can legislate to slack off on the suburban sprawl [[reality). Maybe then they can help inject a dose of [[dreaminess) unreality into what still is the metropolis of Michigan. More planning to accomodate pedestrian activity and a more festive atmosphere will be better for businesses and people.

I mean the question Brushstart asks is legitimate, and expresses the need Detroiters have for a fancy break away from so-called reality, maybe!?

Same in your neck of the woods, Hermod?

The state can not pay its own bills at this time. Why should the state increase its bonded indebtedness at a time when it is in deficit?

The state doesn't do suburban sprawl, demand for homes away from Detroit and its problems cause the sprawl.

Sometimes [[not every time) the state will widen a road to handle the increased traffic..

[canuck]

The state can not pay its own bills at this time. Why should the state increase its bonded indebtedness at a time when it is in deficit?

The state doesn't do suburban sprawl, demand for homes away from Detroit and its problems cause the sprawl.

Sometimes [[not every time) the state will widen a road to handle the increased traffic..

Agreed wih you, sprawl is a difficult process to contain, as you said earlier, people will wend their way to a suburb if they want to. But I think that some creative legislation can help curb the so-called need for unending spread. I also think the exercise in maintaining Detroit's quality architecture, enhancing its public places [[well on its way) giving appropriate incentives
to small business inbrication will help solve some of the region's problems. Above all, it is about people not just bricks and mortar. The benefits of a new impetus to promote Detroit's revival will be felt in the upper peninsula and across state lines. You cannot invoke depleted resources in a country as rich as the US. As I and others have said before, get a couple of Nimitz class carriers worth of investment in forging a more robust Detroit, less dependant on the one industry. Make it a homegrown, home-targeted arsenal for democracy. When cycles of abandonment create spite to the level of implosion that reappears long after the 67 riots, what else is there to do but accomodate humans, not just profits and the status quo...?

[Hermod]

giving appropriate incentives to small business inbrication will help solve some of the region's problems.

I was up in the area the week before last.

Macomb and Oakland counties have a lot of small, up to date factories waiting for investors to rent.

What incentives should Michigan offer?

1. Tax rebates?

2. Become a "right to work" state?

3. Eliminate the cumbersome and biased workman's comp system?

[canuck]

And mind you, I am not suggesting the extension of the welfare state. I am talking about finding ways to make the downtown area and Midtown [[in particular) more amenable to its inhabitants, to suburban commuters who work there and to tourists. This means money has to move of course, but it does not mean owners of buildings and lots in these districts dont need to add value to their offer alongside the city's efforts. So, the idea that any money invested on Detroit equals a whopping welfare payment is not a fair assessment. When architect Haussmann redesigned Paris under decree by Napoleon III, his mandate was to redesign the Paris we know today which is not an eternal Paris but a successful refabrication. He demolished a lot of decrepit medieval streets in order to reveal a better, healthier city to the world but also to its people. Napoleon's decree involved the annexation of suburban communes [[towns) in order to make the city more robust.

[canuck]

I was up in the area the week before last.

Macomb and Oakland counties have a lot of small, up to date factories waiting for investors to rent.

What incentives should Michigan offer?

1. Tax rebates?

2. Become a "right to work" state?

3. Eliminate the cumbersome and biased workman's comp system?

We're competing with countries that have the labor cost advantage over us, and play by the rules set forth by the finance czars that know no limit in transnational flow of capital. You can invite more chinese and indian companies to take over because you have not found a creative way of moving the ball forward. Or, you can help sectors you know will help revive the economy in increments, slowly, from small to big, form big to small; do what it takes. China invests massive amounts of money in he long term to develop infrastructure in farflung provinces, giving away rents to factory owners only too willing to acquire a cheaper workforce, ten year free-leases. I am not suggesting that the kind of communism/capitalism we are competing here is fair. I am looking at how we will be able to build a better framework for people to live and do business. Haiti doesnt grow rice anymore because massive subsidies to US rice growers make it impossible for haitians to provide for themselves. Seems to me we are now beginning to get a taste of that very same medicine.
We are in the lap of luxury but on the knee's edge.

[BrushStart]

I actually have been to the "Bean" in Plymouth on several occasions. It has a good beatnik-esq atmosphere and it serves as a neighborhood hangout spot, mostly for teens, but a cool place nonetheless. Plymouth also once had a coffee shop/hookah bar that served as a similar neighborhood hangout, but it closed many years ago. A place like this would definitely be nice to have downtown- especially because it would draw an older more sophisticated crowd than the places in Plymouth. So, yeah, I was thinking of a place very similar to the Bean, or or perhaps that coffee shop in Birmingham, whose name is currently escaping me...

Unfortunately, I never made it to Espresso Jazzy Cafe. I say with major regret that I didn't know it existed, despite having walked through that part of town all the time [[erikd I stand partially corrected). However, I don't know if they are still open... when I went to their Facebook page, it says that they served their last cup of coffee on August 10th of this year. If nobody knows, I'm going to walk by tomorrow or the next day to see if they are still open and I'll update everyone. If I forget, please remind me.

Espresso Jazzy Cafe is NOT closed. It is still open as of 12/2/2010. Please see my clarification thread: http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?t=8029