What can we do to deal with the beggars all over Detroit?

[DetroitPole]

There is not much we can do. The poor will always be with us. I have been approched by probably thousands of beggars at this point. Only a couple really bothered me. For the rest a "Sorry, I haven't got any change" will usually do.

However I was walking down E. Warren last month after unsucessfully trying to go to My Sisters & Me, which was closed, when a very loud and aggressive begger crossed the street and started following us, yelling at us to stop. I said that I didn't want to talk to him, and he became extremely angry and more aggressive, yelling threats and approching faster. I was with my friend from the suburbs and I myself felt very threatened; she is very skittish and naive and I imagine she was terrified. I was embarassed afterwards and felt bad. If I had a weapon I wouldn't have hesitated to take care of him, and it would have been justified. That is the kind of thing that needs to stop. If the police actually came or cared I would have called them, but outside of that and fucking him up there was little I could do. It made me feel helpless. Hopefully he yells at the wrong person and gets whats coming to him, since that is how things work in this town. That is the only time I've really wanted to do away with beggers.

[BrushStart]

So, it's ok for you to have Freedom of Speech but not the homeless or the person begging. They have a right to ask, you have a right to say no.

I think it's more about aleaving your quilt when you walk by. Really, how much money have you given them?

It's not about their right to ask or how much I've given them, it's about what I accomplish by giving them money on a daily basis. Where I live seems to draw a lot of beggars, and I usually talk to them, and give out cigarettes and/or money. I don't generalize about them. They are each individual persons with different life stories and some are nice and some are total a**holes. My problem is that I see the same individuals day after day, usually high, drunk, or in withdrawal. I know that when I give them money, they run off to go get messed up. In this sense, I am their enabler. Virtually all of the beggars that I see need more help than $1.27 in pocket change. They need various types of treatment and someone to actually give a shit. Without a serious, live-in treatment center, most of these people will continue to suffer on the streets living penny-to-penny until they die in the gutter of pneumonia or overdose. The biggest sin of my daily handout is continuing that cycle.

[iheartthed]

Interesting that someone who has asked me to explain things further and provide statistics would use such conjecture to talk about "significant" "beggars" in Ann Arbor.

Let me strongly suggest with the lack of "evidence" you've provided that Ann Arbor's "beggars" are largely different than Detroit's. You have your own opinions about NYC's, which I would not have the direct statistics or personal knowledge to comment on.

Sorry if you took my comments in another thread -- that has nothing to do with this topic -- as a personal attack on you. That was not my intent. I just wanted you to explain how Detroit, according to you, has a larger number of dangerous neighborhoods than other cities, since none of the city's neighborhoods making some stupid "most dangerous neighborhoods in America" list.

But back to the topic. Statistics? I didn't cite anything. My statement was based on anecdotal observations during my 5 years of living in Ann Arbor. Who cares if Ann Arbor's beggars are "different" [[whatever the hell that means, lol)? The point is that Ann Arbor has beggars!

[DetroitPole]

Sorry if you took my comments in another thread -- that has nothing to do with this topic -- as a personal attack on you. That was not my intent. I just wanted you to explain how Detroit, according to you, has a larger number of dangerous neighborhoods than other cities, since none of the city's neighborhoods making some stupid "most dangerous neighborhoods in America" list.

But back to the topic. Statistics? I didn't cite anything. My statement was based on anecdotal observations during my 5 years of living in Ann Arbor. Who cares if Ann Arbor's beggars are "different" [[whatever the hell that means, lol)? The point is that Ann Arbor has beggars!

Sounds to me like even bum shit doesn't stink in glorious Ann Arbor.

[1KielsonDrive]

We could start by instituting a better social safety net. Don't make it sound like the beggars are completely and totally at fault for their poverty. They annoy me at times, too. But the bottom line is that the people who are stealing from us aren't out on the streets panhandling. They're in our nation's and state's capitols panhandling. But they aren't asking [[immediately) for handouts, they're handing money out - then waiting for a the big payday from us - legislation, tax breaks, grants, etc. They get away with it partially because they aren't in your face day to day, just in your pocket book, like a pick pocket.

[wolverine]

So, it's ok for you to have Freedom of Speech but not the homeless or the person begging. They have a right to ask, you have a right to say no.

I think it's more about aleaving your quilt when you walk by. Really, how much money have you given them?

Ehhh, careful now. If they ask and you say no, and they ask again and follow close by you, it's simple assault. Simple assault is not freedom of speech. It's a misdemeanor. For the most part, 70% of the people I've encountered will accept no for an answer, either by response or simply being ignored. But there's still an agressive bunch out there that will get up in people's faces, and I've seen law enforcement act.

[canuck]

With all the talk about a more sustainable Detroit, isnt there a soylent green plant on the way?

Sorry, couldnt reezisst.

[evergreen]

I spend a good deal of time downtown and I love to walk so I get approached by beggars quite a bit. Generally, if I can access some change fairly easily I will give something to them. I have never felt threatened when I didn't give something. There is one white guy who begs near the city county building who can get pretty obnoxious; he once hassled me when I had both hands full carrying a box and I wasn't about to stop to fish up some change. He's the worst one downtown. He annoyed me but I never felt threatened. For the most part, compared to cities like San Fransisco, Detroit's beggars are a pretty tame lot.

On the other hand, I can understand how older or more vulnerable folks might be put off by beggars. Also, I don't walk around downtown after sunset, at least not by myself.

Most of them are mentally ill or substance abusers or some combination of the two which is the reason most aren't with families. I don't think there's any reasonable solution in sight - the perfect distribution of wealth and mental health care is not likely to occur any time soon.

[EMG]

I can't back it up from the stats, but I remember when I first started seeing homeless all over the place as a teenager and was told it was Engler's fault. You saw people at freeway exits for the first time with signs.

You may indeed have seen people at freeway exits, but it wasn't "for the first time," and in no way was John Engler responsible for the start of it. I remember quite well seeing this in the early to mid 80's, well back into the Blanchard days. [[And for the record I'm pretty sure it didn't start with Blanchard either).

[DetroitDad]

I welcome them! To me they are a sign of health, since I met Detroit when there was no beggars left because there was no one left to beg from. I felt literally alone on those nights in the early 2000s. I used to walk around Downtown Detroit in the middle of the night and not get asked for change, not see a police car, not see anyone. It was empty, dead, no activity at all.

It was neat to experience, but It's much better as a memory. I'm so glad that more people live here now.

I can't for the life of me remember who said this, but it was to the tune of; "in order to cure the problems of urban blight and decay, you must design an environment for vibrant life of which everyone wants to be a part". Greater Downtown Detroit has been going in the right direction, but it is up to us to assure that it stays the course by injecting vitality and hope in the people and environment around us. That is the only thing that will keep this going. How we turn around Detroit is that we work on it like a river hitting a rock, slowly eroding an otherwise impassable obstacle to nothing.

• Everyday we must reach out to the people around us, start conversations, and include them in our networks.
• Everyday we must do something to better the environment for which we reside.
• Everyday we must exercise our mind, body, and spirit, and educate ourselves on the civic issues that allow us to perform our civic duties with confidence.
• Everyday we must make the right decisions, and correct our past mistakes that we make in our lives, with the knowledge that you can not tell people how to walk the right path, you can only show them by walking it yourself.

That is a checklist. For everyday we must do these things if we want a better Detroit. The problems are complex, the solution is simple. Each of us is a fraction of a degree working to heat up some water. Let them laugh at us, as they will when they see us doing something seemingly small and insignificant [[they do laugh when you pick up one piece of trash in a garbage strewn field). For we are slowly bringing this water to boil. As they say, at 211' water is hot. At 212' it boils. Boiling water makes steam. Steam can power a locomotive.

Remember, when all is said and done, we will be smiling down, watching our great great grand kids play in the sand that was once our great rock.

PS: With that, I am hoping you are all as motivated as I am, as I can't even sit here on this message board any longer this week. Please forgive me if I leave any conversations unfinished, they are important to me, but I feel there are some things I need to act on. I for one need to get off the edge of death and start building on life. I think maybe we should start with ourselves and then work our way out.

[wolverine]

I welcome them! To me they are a sign of health

Oh good! Let's do nothing then.

[ragnarok1981]

My problem with the ones that I encounter on fort street is that they get right in your way and try to block you so you can't get past them. If they were just sitting on the side of the sidewalk with a cup asking for change that would be one thing but when they are actively going after you it is more of a problem. Recently it is not even that they just get in my way but they are getting downright rude. The other day I passed a guy who asked if I had 35 cents and I shook my head no and continued walking past him. He yells out at me "you sure answered that quick, is it because I am BLACK!" I am a pretty mild mannered person but even I wanted to turn around and tell the guy off. The guy with the red beard seems to follow the crowds and often migrates over to Eastern Market on the weekends. He is beyond rude and one day I saw a woman talking on her cell phone and he stands there yelling at her to give him money. Finally she turned to him and said "bitch can't you see I am on the phone!" and that shut him up. But I mean when you walk to an office building and a guy begs you for money and you say no and then go in the building for less than 5 minutes and come back out and he asks you again that is just aggrivating.
Personally I find the beggars to me of an annoyance than anything else but there are a few who I have felt kind of threatened by. One is that older white guy with the longish white hair and beard who sometimes works at the parking lot on congress between washington and shelby. He would carry around a table leg as a club and that was a little scary. But as a child the all time scariest homeless person was Stella. Now that her story has come out since she passed away I understand that she was a very ill person, but back then when I heard stories of her attacking people I was terrified to be anywhere near her.

[LodgeDodger]

I spend a good deal of time downtown and I love to walk so I get approached by beggars quite a bit. Generally, if I can access some change fairly easily I will give something to them. I have never felt threatened when I didn't give something. There is one white guy who begs near the city county building who can get pretty obnoxious; he once hassled me when I had both hands full carrying a box and I wasn't about to stop to fish up some change. He's the worst one downtown. He annoyed me but I never felt threatened. For the most part, compared to cities like San Fransisco, Detroit's beggars are a pretty tame lot.

On the other hand, I can understand how older or more vulnerable folks might be put off by beggars. Also, I don't walk around downtown after sunset, at least not by myself.

Most of them are mentally ill or substance abusers or some combination of the two which is the reason most aren't with families. I don't think there's any reasonable solution in sight - the perfect distribution of wealth and mental health care is not likely to occur any time soon.

I bet that was "Sir, Sir".

[LodgeDodger]

I welcome them! To me they are a sign of health, since I met Detroit when there was no beggars left because there was no one left to beg from. I felt literally alone on those nights in the early 2000s. I used to walk around Downtown Detroit in the middle of the night and not get asked for change, not see a police car, not see anyone. It was empty, dead, no activity at all.

It was neat to experience, but It's much better as a memory. I'm so glad that more people live here now.

I can't for the life of me remember who said this, but it was to the tune of; "in order to cure the problems of urban blight and decay, you must design an environment for vibrant life of which everyone wants to be a part". Greater Downtown Detroit has been going in the right direction, but it is up to us to assure that it stays the course by injecting vitality and hope in the people and environment around us. That is the only thing that will keep this going. How we turn around Detroit is that we work on it like a river hitting a rock, slowly eroding an otherwise impassable obstacle to nothing.

• Everyday we must reach out to the people around us, start conversations, and include them in our networks.
• Everyday we must do something to better the environment for which we reside.
• Everyday we must exercise our mind, body, and spirit, and educate ourselves on the civic issues that allow us to perform our civic duties with confidence.
• Everyday we must make the right decisions, and correct our past mistakes that we make in our lives, with the knowledge that you can not tell people how to walk the right path, you can only show them by walking it yourself.

That is a checklist. For everyday we must do these things if we want a better Detroit. The problems are complex, the solution is simple. Each of us is a fraction of a degree working to heat up some water. Let them laugh at us, as they will when they see us doing something seemingly small and insignificant [[they do laugh when you pick up one piece of trash in a garbage strewn field). For we are slowly bringing this water to boil. As they say, at 211' water is hot. At 212' it boils. Boiling water makes steam. Steam can power a locomotive.

Remember, when all is said and done, we will be smiling down, watching our great great grand kids play in the sand that was once our great rock.

PS: With that, I am hoping you are all as motivated as I am, as I can't even sit here on this message board any longer this week. Please forgive me if I leave any conversations unfinished, they are important to me, but I feel there are some things I need to act on. I for one need to get off the edge of death and start building on life. I think maybe we should start with ourselves and then work our way out.

Oh, puke.

. . . . .

[LodgeDodger]

My problem with the ones that I encounter on fort street is that they get right in your way and try to block you so you can't get past them. If they were just sitting on the side of the sidewalk with a cup asking for change that would be one thing but when they are actively going after you it is more of a problem. Recently it is not even that they just get in my way but they are getting downright rude. The other day I passed a guy who asked if I had 35 cents and I shook my head no and continued walking past him. He yells out at me "you sure answered that quick, is it because I am BLACK!" I am a pretty mild mannered person but even I wanted to turn around and tell the guy off. The guy with the red beard seems to follow the crowds and often migrates over to Eastern Market on the weekends. He is beyond rude and one day I saw a woman talking on her cell phone and he stands there yelling at her to give him money. Finally she turned to him and said "bitch can't you see I am on the phone!" and that shut him up. But I mean when you walk to an office building and a guy begs you for money and you say no and then go in the building for less than 5 minutes and come back out and he asks you again that is just aggrivating.
Personally I find the beggars to me of an annoyance than anything else but there are a few who I have felt kind of threatened by. One is that older white guy with the longish white hair and beard who sometimes works at the parking lot on congress between washington and shelby. He would carry around a table leg as a club and that was a little scary. But as a child the all time scariest homeless person was Stella. Now that her story has come out since she passed away I understand that she was a very ill person, but back then when I heard stories of her attacking people I was terrified to be anywhere near her.

You must walk like a "victim". Be a little more aggressive in your walk. Be firm when you tell them "no". As far as the black guy trying to get a rise out of you, I'd have told him yes and walked on.

[Zacha341]

I rarely give money to pan-handlers [[anywhere or any color). And I've run into the rude types that make that decision easy. I avoid conversations and find that a firm "MOVE" or "NO" gets them away from when they move in too close, violating my space, demanding payment.

It's simply not worth the risk having my purse snatched or some other unexpected episode from a 'divisionary' tactic that some people pull pretending to need money.... And it is hard to discern between the two. So I just keep walking and don't interact.

[MDoyle]

I would agree with the comment about San Francisco. I moved to SF almost 5 months ago and the beggars are ten times worse. You have voilent drug addicts here of all ages races and backgrounds. Ive been confronted walking away from a beggar on more than one occasion. I was in the middle of union square when a beggar shoved me yelled something random and then just kept following me for 1/2 a block asking for money. 6 years being in and around Detroit for school and living there and Ive never encountered this. Here you get alot the same suburbanites who hate on the city of SF and Oakland though.

In Detroit I was much more afraid of high school kids with guns knives and nothing better to do to make a buck than to mug people. Let's have a serious conversation about what to do with these people. Beggars are just a nuisance not often a danger.

[bartock]

I welcome them! To me they are a sign of health, since I met Detroit when there was no beggars left because there was no one left to beg from. I felt literally alone on those nights in the early 2000s. I used to walk around Downtown Detroit in the middle of the night and not get asked for change, not see a police car, not see anyone. It was empty, dead, no activity at all.

It was neat to experience, but It's much better as a memory. I'm so glad that more people live here now.

I can't for the life of me remember who said this, but it was to the tune of; "in order to cure the problems of urban blight and decay, you must design an environment for vibrant life of which everyone wants to be a part". Greater Downtown Detroit has been going in the right direction, but it is up to us to assure that it stays the course by injecting vitality and hope in the people and environment around us. That is the only thing that will keep this going. How we turn around Detroit is that we work on it like a river hitting a rock, slowly eroding an otherwise impassable obstacle to nothing.

• Everyday we must reach out to the people around us, start conversations, and include them in our networks.
• Everyday we must do something to better the environment for which we reside.
• Everyday we must exercise our mind, body, and spirit, and educate ourselves on the civic issues that allow us to perform our civic duties with confidence.
• Everyday we must make the right decisions, and correct our past mistakes that we make in our lives, with the knowledge that you can not tell people how to walk the right path, you can only show them by walking it yourself.

That is a checklist. For everyday we must do these things if we want a better Detroit. The problems are complex, the solution is simple. Each of us is a fraction of a degree working to heat up some water. Let them laugh at us, as they will when they see us doing something seemingly small and insignificant [[they do laugh when you pick up one piece of trash in a garbage strewn field). For we are slowly bringing this water to boil. As they say, at 211' water is hot. At 212' it boils. Boiling water makes steam. Steam can power a locomotive.

Remember, when all is said and done, we will be smiling down, watching our great great grand kids play in the sand that was once our great rock.

PS: With that, I am hoping you are all as motivated as I am, as I can't even sit here on this message board any longer this week. Please forgive me if I leave any conversations unfinished, they are important to me, but I feel there are some things I need to act on. I for one need to get off the edge of death and start building on life. I think maybe we should start with ourselves and then work our way out.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Let's go, c'mon!!

[bailey]

The only solution to professional bums here or anywhere is either euthanasia or lifetime incarceration. "Sir Sir" guy and the various cast of regulars around here are not going to miraculously go straight after a drug program or job training. They are dysfunctional humans. They are incapable of being part of society. Since we neither have the stomach to put them down nor the money to house them for 50-60 years in a penitentiary, they will continue to roam the streets. There have always been people who fail at life and live on the streets, and there always will be. Want them to stop bothering everybody? Stop. giving. them. money.

[preserve]

We've got numerous soup kitchens, manna meals, the Salvation Army, Goodwill. I give to those institutions and just advise the pan handlers that I've already given. The "God Bless" ones are the ones that annoy me the most. Specially after a ball game as you're waiting for the bus back to your car and it's all you can hear over and over and it's so hackneyed.

[1KielsonDrive]

The only solution to professional bums here or anywhere is either euthanasia or lifetime incarceration.

"Sir Sir" guy and the various cast of regulars around here are not going to miraculously go straight after a drug program or job training. They are dysfunctional humans. They are incapable of being part of society. Since we neither have the stomach to put them down nor the money to house them for 50-60 years in a penitentiary, they will continue to roam the streets. There have always been people who fail at life and live on the streets, and there always will be. Want them to stop bothering everybody? Stop. giving. them. money.

That's exactly the solution I was thinking of for 'tough guys', rough and tumble 'law n' order' types, and people without an ounce of compassion for others. We could eliminate you and/or incarcerate you until a time when we could electrocute, inject, hang or shoot you.

[Ravine]

I welcome them! To me they are a sign of health, since I met Detroit when there was no beggars left because there was no one left to beg from. I felt literally alone on those nights in the early 2000s. I used to walk around Downtown Detroit in the middle of the night and not get asked for change, not see a police car, not see anyone. It was empty, dead, no activity at all.

It was neat to experience, but It's much better as a memory. I'm so glad that more people live here now.

I can't for the life of me remember who said this, but it was to the tune of; "in order to cure the problems of urban blight and decay, you must design an environment for vibrant life of which everyone wants to be a part". Greater Downtown Detroit has been going in the right direction, but it is up to us to assure that it stays the course by injecting vitality and hope in the people and environment around us. That is the only thing that will keep this going. How we turn around Detroit is that we work on it like a river hitting a rock, slowly eroding an otherwise impassable obstacle to nothing.

• Everyday we must reach out to the people around us, start conversations, and include them in our networks.
• Everyday we must do something to better the environment for which we reside.
• Everyday we must exercise our mind, body, and spirit, and educate ourselves on the civic issues that allow us to perform our civic duties with confidence.
• Everyday we must make the right decisions, and correct our past mistakes that we make in our lives, with the knowledge that you can not tell people how to walk the right path, you can only show them by walking it yourself.

That is a checklist. For everyday we must do these things if we want a better Detroit. The problems are complex, the solution is simple. Each of us is a fraction of a degree working to heat up some water. Let them laugh at us, as they will when they see us doing something seemingly small and insignificant [[they do laugh when you pick up one piece of trash in a garbage strewn field). For we are slowly bringing this water to boil. As they say, at 211' water is hot. At 212' it boils. Boiling water makes steam. Steam can power a locomotive.

Remember, when all is said and done, we will be smiling down, watching our great great grand kids play in the sand that was once our great rock.

PS: With that, I am hoping you are all as motivated as I am, as I can't even sit here on this message board any longer this week. Please forgive me if I leave any conversations unfinished, they are important to me, but I feel there are some things I need to act on. I for one need to get off the edge of death and start building on life. I think maybe we should start with ourselves and then work our way out.

I hope you feel better, now that you have released that steaming, mucousy load.
Tissue, Sir?
Never mind that your self-indulgent sermonette has so little relevance to the theme of this thread; I suppose that you figure on being granted a Free Pass, as a reward for making a token [[though transparent) effort, at the outset of your post, to establish a connection.

[DetroitPlanner]

I welcome them! To me they are a sign of health, since I met Detroit when there was no beggars left because there was no one left to beg from.

I'm speechless.

[gdogslim]

RE: What can we do to deal with the beggars all over Detroit?

I have the solution !!
Buss them all to Washington DC.
Think about it.
Once there in D.C., Obama will have no choice but to give them money and handouts. They will promote and see how dire it is here and give Detroit billions in stimulus funds. Whatever happened to hope and change?
That or Florida, I heard it is warmer down there this time of year.

[bailey]

That's exactly the solution I was thinking of for 'tough guys', rough and tumble 'law n' order' types, and people without an ounce of compassion for others. We could eliminate you and/or incarcerate you until a time when we could electrocute, inject, hang or shoot you.

I have plenty of compassion. There are real people out there struggling with tough times that are trying to get off the streets, then there are professional bums. One group avails themselves of the various entities out there offering help, the other runs up to you yelling "sir sir" every day with some completely bullshit story about how they just need 38 cents to catch the bus ....which is the same thing they needed yesterday...and day before that ....and so on. After being accosted by same professional bums in the same places downtown more times than I can remember, having my car broken into 5 times in a 9 month stretch in the CBD, and seeing the same guy standing at the 94 exit ramp with the same pathetic sign every day for the last 5 years [[rain or shine) it is clear to me that there are those among us that are beyond help. They are simply broken. In a world of 6 billion there are going to be some that simply fail quality control. So one can accept them as a cost associated with life in a city, ignore them, and stop hand wringing about what to do about them OR let them live with you.