Despicable!! Ass. att gen. of Michigan attacking college student!

bartock · October-01-10, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by hudkina

I think we should give Mike Cox a bit more credit. I don't really know his political views and with myself being relatively liberal, I would assume we oppose each other on a lot of issues, but it's not like he's the one writing the blog. Shirvell, regardless of how bigoted and immature he may be, does have a first amendment right to create such a blog. And it's Cox's job to defend that right. Cox obviously thinks the guy is an idiot and he even admitted being embarassed by the blog.

Imagine a situation where a christian conservative gets elected student council president, and a crazy left-wing gay assistant attorney general creates a blog blasting him. I'm sure Cox would have taken a similar approach.

Fair enough, but ask yourself if Cox would have responded this way had he made it through the primary. There is no conviction from the AG whatsoever.

**EastsideAl** · October-01-10, 08:52 AM

I think Cox realizes that firing this guy would probably mean that he'd get sued. Since he's out of office in a few months anyway, why not leave it up to the candidates to fight over and step the hell out of the way. This very poor hiring decision is then going to be the next guy's problem.

Speaking of poor hiring decisions, why does it not surprise me that this delusional nutjob was hired out of Tom Monaghan's we're-so-much-more-Catholic-than-thou barely accredited little theocratic law farm?

**gazhekwe** · October-01-10, 08:59 AM

I forgot about this work rule the state has. You can be disciplined up to and including termination for 'Conduct unbecoming a state employee.' I wonder if this conduct that puts the office on the national news examining this guy's extreme behavior is unbecoming enough.

**BillyBBrew** · October-01-10, 11:38 AM

Any large business has a statement regarding "unbecoming conduct". I know if I did this, my employer would probably fire me, not because of their opinions, but because the negative attention their name would be getting from my being an employee. Falls under ethics. I also think that the man has a right to write his opinions in the blog, but when you start putting up swastikas and whatnot, you're crossing the line into "hate" issues. Following the guy and being by his house at 1:30am when you likely live 90 minutes away in Lansing is...well.....creepy and across the line.

**Meddle** · October-01-10, 12:12 PM

I think Cox realizes that firing this guy would probably mean that he'd get sued.

If Cox doesn't fire him, the State could be sued for condoning his behavior,

There are performance and ethics clauses in most executive employment contracts now. This knothead is way over that line.

**bailey** · October-01-10, 12:33 PM

this perfectly sums why this closet case still has his job....

Even now, Michigan AG Mike Cox cannot bring himself to fire the crazed, stalking bigot, assistant attorney general Andrew Shirvell for "conduct unbecoming a state employee." Earlier reports said Shirvell had been fired. Not true. And Cox reserved his anger for governor Granholm, who said she would have fired Shirvell:

"I don't know why she's so freaking irresponsible. ... She went to Harvard Law School," Cox said. "The civil service rules are a huge shield for free speech, and she knows that."

But stalking, and harassing a student who has done nothing wrong but be gay and making a total ass of himself certainly qualifies as "conduct unbecoming a state employee." There's one reason Cox cannot fire Shirvell. His Christianist base backs everything Shirvell believes.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/

**Meddle** · October-01-10, 01:08 PM

CNN is saying that the dweeb has 'taken a leave of absence' and that his site is now password protected and unavailable to the public.

**gazhekwe** · October-01-10, 02:44 PM

Good. Now if he puts himself in the closet and stops harassing the student, maybe he can pull himself out of the fire. I guess U of M put a restraining order on him, he can't come on campus any more. I hope the student files for a PPO as well.

**East Detroit** · October-01-10, 04:59 PM

Shirvell has big issues with his own sexuality.

They should have realized this when he eagerly said he wanted to work for Cox.

**Whitehouse** · October-01-10, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by East Detroit

Shirvell has big issues with his own sexuality.

They should have realized this when he eagerly said he wanted to work for Cox.

**hudkina** · October-01-10, 09:50 PM

How do you define "conduct unbecoming a state employee"? It's like a teacher who posts photos of herself getting wasted on facebook where her students might possibly see the pics. Should she be fired because she is a teacher and such conduct is "unbecoming" of a teacher, or is her private life irrelevent if she shows up clean and sober on Monday morning ready to work?

The same is true for this nutjob. If he conducts himself professionaly and responsibly while on the job, then how can you fire him over something he has done on his own time? Also, the first amendement protects hate speech, so he has every right to create the blog. While one can argue the blog is libelous which isn't protected, I'm sure one could also argue it is satire, which is protected. Also, as far as harrassment is concerned, if the student and university both have protection orders against Shirvell and he disregards those orders, then he can be prosecuted. But he can't be prosecuted for hating someone else...

**Meddle** · October-01-10, 10:48 PM

Also, the first amendement protects hate speech,

You might want to review that. There are all kinds of laws now against hate speech and cyber-bullying, both of which could define this. And it wouldn't be the first time someone was fired for their personal beliefs conflicting with their job standards. Not sure what the search term would be, but quite a few cops have been in the news over the last few months for things they posted on their Facebook pages.

**hudkina** · October-01-10, 10:51 PM

I hope you realize that the constitution trumps any and every law on the books...

**Meddle** · October-01-10, 11:25 PM

I hope you realize that the constitution trumps any and every law on the books...

Not true. The First has been pre-empted in many cases.

Case in point: http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/10/01/cnn...ex.html?hpt=T2

OK, not a cop or public servant, but still relevant in that the comments were made away from his primary employment position.

**gazhekwe** · October-02-10, 08:26 AM

When you say or do controversial and potentially damaging things in public, and you have a position that puts you in the public eye, your controversial actions absolutely affect your employer and your job.

**Crystal** · October-02-10, 10:41 AM

I'm not always the sharpest bulb in the drawer [[but am pretty good at mixed metaphors) but I don't see how this is a free speech issue. How is this not harassment and against the law?

Mr. Shirvell is one spooky guy and shame on Mr. Cox for not firing him. I don't get it.

gdogslim · October-02-10, 01:03 PM

Even though the guy is way off base publishing his thoughts online about a puclic college student, especially in his position, he does have a 1st amendment right to do so. He should stick to prosecuting criminal acts.
It's kind of like a President publicly attacking a tv news personality who disagrees with his policies.

**Meddle** · October-02-10, 01:32 PM

^ Obviously you haven't read the story.

**Whitehouse** · October-02-10, 03:42 PM

Meanwhile... this happened in New Jersey.

The tragic death of a Rutgers University student who killed himself after two classmates allegedly streamed his sexual encounters online has renewed a national debate over cyberbullying, with one member of Congress calling for a law designating it a federal crime.

Now, I expect Armstrong to stand much firmer in his shoes. He's gay and makes no secret of it. I don't thing Shrvill's antics will make him lose his marbles and let him do funky stuff like blowing up the justice department or suicide.

But this can be the result of cyber bullying.... I hope Cox realizes that!

Cyberbullying is the sodomizing of the first amendment.

**Melocoton** · October-02-10, 04:04 PM

I hate to quote Anderson Cooper, but as he says the issue here isn't freedom of speech or the first Amendment. Nobody actually has said that he doesn't have a right to his blog. At issue is his judgment and his professional integrity as a public servant. I know people love to have first amendment debates ad nauseum but the issue is a lot simpler here.

The reasons this guy should get fired are 1) he's clearly a psychologically unstable person and 2) he's a bigot, and since he's a lawyer for the state of Michigan there's no way any gay person could feel as if they are protected equally under the law given the things he clearly believes. In fact, as a straight person I wouldn't want this guy anywhere near any case I was involved in--again, because he's both a bigot and a person in obvious need of help. He's also obviously a fool.

And it's amazing, actually, that we have an attorney general for whom firing this guy is not a complete and utter no-brainer. Shows what a neanderthal Mike Cox is.

**pffft** · October-02-10, 04:07 PM

"Neanderthal" is the right word. It's no wonder young people leave the state, when they see things like this allowed to go on, passively condoned by the "establishment."

**East Detroit** · October-02-10, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by Whitehouse

Not sure how you meant that.

**Crystal** · October-02-10, 04:34 PM

Well put, Melocoton. That's what I was trying to convey.

**hudkina** · October-02-10, 11:55 PM

If they can find other reasons to fire the guy, I'm all for it, but I can't condone firing him because he exercised his right to free speech. If you allow him to get fired for this, what's going to stop other people getting fired or in trouble with the law for other forms of "free speech". This guy is a moron and maybe he isn't fit to work for the Office of the Attorney General, but I think the bigger crime would be censoring our right to free speech.

**Meddle** · October-03-10, 12:03 AM

If you allow him to get fired for this, what's going to stop other people getting fired or in trouble with the law for other forms of "free speech".

No one. And they shouldn't as shown in the links I included above. Behave yourself or be unemployed.

If I were the Attorney General of any state or the head of any government agency where impartiality and fairness was a key factor in the office mission, I'd have fired this Goof two seconds after hearing about this kind of behavior. And I'd have probably had him arrested also for the harassment angle.