The smoking ban - six months later

[Russix]

I walked into a bar last night. The bartender asked me if I smoked, I said “yes”. She presented me with an ashtray. When I gave her a puzzled look, she said “We’re Objectors!” After chatting with some other patrons last night, I’ve come up with a list of at least a dozen establishments across the Metro Detroit area that are now smoking speakeasies. I do not object to a statewide smoking ban, but a small bar where the owner smokes, the employees smoke, and the patrons smoke should be given an exemption over a casino where bus loads of senior citizens with oxygen tanks are frequenting. Banning something is one thing, actually enforcing it is another. Winter will probably return ashtrays to quite a few more bar counters around here.

[Zacha341]

Yeah, I applied to work in one of the Detroit casinos graphics/ marketing departments and was like will the smoke from the "action" floors make it up to business offices. The smoke at a casino is really heavy and I too wonder how the folks on the floor deal with it day in and day out. I could not.

I remember on one of my many times to the casino to give them my money, I was on the blackjack table and I recall the dealer, a woman was dealing the cards yet and the same time moving cigarette smoke away from her. She was getting nailed by drifting smoke and I said to myself, "there's no way I could work as a dealer, no matter how much money they pay." To suck in second-hand smoke and smell like an ashtray just isn't worth it.

[R8RBOB]

Yeah, I applied to work in one of the Detroit casinos graphics/ marketing departments and was like will the smoke from the "action" floors make it up to business offices. The smoke at a casino is really heavy and I too wonder how the folks on the floor deal with it day in and day out. I could not.

The problem with casinos is that it is a 24hr business with customers all day, all night and some if not most are smoking and this is going on for 24hrs. The air quality is always in the red zone. Casinos should have been banned due the fact that they are opened 24-7. At least a bar have a few hours before opening to allow the air to dissipate.

[ggores]

I walked into a bar last night.

Wha? No monkey?

I walked into a bar the other day/night, whatever, rolled a fatty, me and the girl smoked same. I dunno... all was well. See, if you just pretend that you are NOT smoking, then everyone is OK. People are really stupid sometimes, you can get away with just about anything. And I do mean... ANYthing. Cheers.

So this guy and a monkey walks into a bar and the monkey eats a cue ball. And then the monkey say to the rummy, "hey, know how to castrate a redneck?" Barkeep say "No, I don't. How DO you do that?" And the monkey say, "kick his sister in the jaw."

Now THAT is a good 'walking into a dive story'. Or maybe not.

[BagAJellyDonuts]

Just got back from a short trip to northern Mich. Stopped at a couple of the small bars up there that I frequent. Both are ignoring the no smoking ban. They figure that the only people that are going there are "regulars" and many of then just don't want to go outside anymore. Besides, they figured it out, the only person that fine them works 9 to 5, Monday to Friday.

Works two ways for them. They lost a lot of business from regulars. Now they got it back. If stuff turns around for them, then they will go along with it.

Instead of this nonsense. why couldn't establishments just put a notice on their sign stating which way they want to do business? Those that wanted to go to a smoke free establishment could do so. And vice versa.

[thatguy123]

Cute, R8RBOB.

But using that reference, you have officially confirmed that you still live in your mother's basement, and I'll venture to bet that you haven't even kissed a girl yet, either.

The people who say things like this are actually the most likely candidates to be "living in their mothers basement" and "haven't even kissed a girl". These types of comments only come out when someone is butthurt and the only way they can think of to come back is to try and put the person who made them cry in some type of made up level of existence below their own.

You see it a lot in video game players because they go to school/work and get their butts kicked all day then the same thing happens online/in a game so they have to put down the person making them feel bad to try and desperately make something in their life seem good.

[smogboy]

Instead of this nonsense. why couldn't establishments just put a notice on their sign stating which way they want to do business? Those that wanted to go to a smoke free establishment could do so. And vice versa.

This makes sense to me. At least then the impetus will be placed on the consumer as opposed to the bar/ restaurant owner to find a way to make things work for them. Personally I think the non-smoking restaurants will win out financially in the long run because of the nature of their business; they're about food. The bars will probably do okay with the smokers though.

As a non-smoker I prefer dining in non-smoking places but then going to a bar I know to expect some smoke.

[1KielsonDrive]

An unqualified success as far as I'm concerned. But it may need tweaking. Not trashing - just tweaking.

[reddog289]

One thing I have noticed is that alot of the resturants that were open 24hrs now close before midnight.My opinion is that it should have been the owners choice to allow smoking. And as for private clubs where the members pay dues let them vote on it.
But with that said, The local bar I go to smells better, and I get to watch the traffic on Michigan Ave and check out the cars at the many lots that surround the bar. But one of the Coney Island resturants I go to smells worse. I can smell the grease.

[R8RBOB]

An unqualified success as far as I'm concerned. But it may need tweaking. Not trashing - just tweaking.

I can agree with this assessment. The ban isn't perfect but it is a start. 36 states prior to Michigan enacted a ban on smoking in public establishments and not one has repealed their bans. The state knew like prior states before them that there will be some growing pains about warming up to the ban but eventually it will become a way of life in our state just like it has in many other states. Sure, there will a few that will defy the law but we can't expect 100% compliance at the jump. It will take one bar or one restaurant or one bowling alley at a time to fall in line. It was time for Michigan to join the 21st century.

[Zacha341]

Well stated... I'm also concerned, and not surprised by the 'political influence' the casinos have applied, exempting themselves from the law... curious, but not surprising. What other passes are they getting or being granted, but that is for another thread. Take care, Z.

I love the ban. How nice it is to be able to dine or visit a pub and not have my experience, let alone my lungs, spoiled by a known carcinogen and highly addictive drug and then come home with hair and clothes stinking.

As for all the rights argument, playing music in public could be called a right and legal, but does anyone here care to argue that one should have the right to set up a bank of megawatt speakers and blast them next to your house at 4 in the morning? There are limits to everything.

The voters of Michigan of all political persuasion overwhelmingly support these restrictions and the more they see its effects, the more they like it.

The casino allowance shows the dangerous political influence that industry is exercising. Their support of those "rights" is laughable especially as they have been granted an anti-free market oligopoly. So much for the "rights" of their competitors. And so much for their employees and the non-smoking customers who are the victims.

[DocTerry]

"It's called incrementalism. This is how government works."
Someone recently described this as the "cooking a frog phenomenon" to me - Take a live frog, put it in a pot of cold water and it will stay there. Slowly turn the heat up, a little at a time, until the water is boiling and the frog is cooked - the frog doesn't notice the gradual increase in temperature [[or does so too late) - it never leaves the pot and boils alive. A bit graphic, but pretty accurate description of the way many rights are eroded.

[milesdriven]

I can agree with this assessment. The ban isn't perfect but it is a start. 36 states prior to Michigan enacted a ban on smoking in public establishments and not one has repealed their bans. .

Iowa's ban was ruled unconstitutional in April.

Conroe, TX has reversed their ban.

Atlantic City dropped their ban in Casinos.

California allows bars with only one employee to permit smoking.

Ohio's hasn't been appealed yet, but a court ruled that an establishment's license cannot be revoked for not paying fines, and a petition has been drawn up for a ballot initiative to permit smoking in bars and private clubs.

Wisconsin's law has a loophole that can be exploited with some minor architectural upgrades

There are judicial challenges in many states and provinces pending right now, and I would hope that a compromise would be reached instead of an outright ban. It's much easier to unite people in hate than in unity. First it was the Jews, then the blacks, followed by the gays, now it's the smokers.

[sumas]

Haven't been in a bar or restaurant since the ban. Know places that I could go as a smoker but really don't care to break the law and don't care to go stand outside.
Have stepped up home entertaining as have our circle of friends. I imagine there has been a leap in the Pizza delivery business.

[kryptonite]

I am enjoying the ban thoroughly. Having spent my life around smokers I am completely pleased with the MI smoking ban. In the warm weather I don't sympathize with smokers. come winter I will feel a tinge of remorse when they have to step outside in the elements.

It's nice having some people outside the doorways keeping watch on the cars in the parking lots, etc. I patronize a lot of Detroit bars and feel safer walking from my car to the door when I see a few people outside having a cigarette.

It's so nice coming home from a bar and not reeking of smoke. Don't smokers even notice a difference? A light smoker or careful smoker picks up the same awful smell when they are around heavy smokers, don't the people in that category notice an improvement as well?

[sturge]

I like not coming back from the bowling alley smelling of smoke and smelling it on my clothes.

[manualshift]

Friend, you won't be able to convince the Master Control Program. He or she is following a script written by a tea bagger stating that the government is trying to take your rights away. I wonder if MCP agreed with Rand Paul when he was claiming that the government had no right to tell privately-owned but public businesses that they HAD to serve Black people.

That is totally out of line.

[Jimaz]

Someone recently described this as the "cooking a frog phenomenon" to me - Take a live frog, put it in a pot of cold water and it will stay there. Slowly turn the heat up, a little at a time, until the water is boiling and the frog is cooked....

FYI, Snopes says the boiled frog story is false. That doesn't invalidate the intended point though.

[jackie5275]

I've been enjoying quite thoroughly. It's good to come home & not have to hit the shower after bowling, going to a club, out to dinner, ets.

[R8RBOB]

Iowa's ban was ruled unconstitutional in April.

Conroe, TX has reversed their ban.

Atlantic City dropped their ban in Casinos.

California allows bars with only one employee to permit smoking.

Ohio's hasn't been appealed yet, but a court ruled that an establishment's license cannot be revoked for not paying fines, and a petition has been drawn up for a ballot initiative to permit smoking in bars and private clubs.

Wisconsin's law has a loophole that can be exploited with some minor architectural upgrades

There are judicial challenges in many states and provinces pending right now, and I would hope that a compromise would be reached instead of an outright ban. It's much easier to unite people in hate than in unity. First it was the Jews, then the blacks, followed by the gays, now it's the smokers.

Dude, I said states, not cities or casinos. NO state has repeal its ban on smoking.

As for Iowa, well perhaps you should research your facts before you question my response.

http://www.nacsonline.com/NACS/News/...D04051010.aspx

[R8RBOB]

That is totally out of line.

Explain......why is it out of line?

[DetroitPlanner]

First it was the Jews, then the blacks, followed by the gays, now it's the smokers.

OMG The smokers are leaving Detroit too?

[Crumbled_pavement]

OMG The smokers are leaving Detroit too?

Now that's a group I don't mind if they leave. Tell them to hit 8 Mile and take their ashtrays with them!

[1KielsonDrive]

"It's called incrementalism. This is how government works."
Someone recently described this as the "cooking a frog phenomenon" to me - Take a live frog, put it in a pot of cold water and it will stay there. Slowly turn the heat up, a little at a time, until the water is boiling and the frog is cooked - the frog doesn't notice the gradual increase in temperature [[or does so too late) - it never leaves the pot and boils alive. A bit graphic, but pretty accurate description of the way many rights are eroded.

Which, of course, leads to socialism, which leads to facism and totalitarianism, which leads to........ We know the story.

[econ expat]

Iowa's ban was ruled unconstitutional in April.

Conroe, TX has reversed their ban.

Atlantic City dropped their ban in Casinos.

California allows bars with only one employee to permit smoking.

Ohio's hasn't been appealed yet, but a court ruled that an establishment's license cannot be revoked for not paying fines, and a petition has been drawn up for a ballot initiative to permit smoking in bars and private clubs.

Wisconsin's law has a loophole that can be exploited with some minor architectural upgrades

There are judicial challenges in many states and provinces pending right now, and I would hope that a compromise would be reached instead of an outright ban. It's much easier to unite people in hate than in unity. First it was the Jews, then the blacks, followed by the gays, now it's the smokers.

You 'took a side', so some have attacked the post.
But the best point of all you made would be hard to challenge- there was no compromise, and even if the casinos banned smoking it still would not be enough for the anti- smoking 'lobby'.

6 months later, after the ban, smokers are more pariahs than ever.
If put to a vote on the ballot, the law would probably still be enacted anyways. After all. less than 20% of the population smokes.

Iowa's smoking restrictions are tougher than Michigan's, but they also exempted the casino gambling areas. And 20% of hotel rooms can allow smoking.

Traveling through Iowa this summer, I was surprised- big signs at the highway rest stops- no smoking anywhere on the grounds, except inside your auto. Did observe several people ignoring the signs, one smoking right in front of the sign [[rebel!) Reading online, I guess smoking is banned at all public spaces, indoors or outdoors? Guess that means parks.