Moving from Royal Oak to Highland Park

[220hendrie1910]

It might be good to have a word with the folks down the block at La Dolce Vita to see how they manage the locals. They're a blatantly obvious target for crime and guard their parking lot ferociously.

[1953]

Jolla...I was only being half tongue in cheek. I've often proposed a new fort in the city as a very real way to retake bad neighborhoods. In particular, I would like to see this on the lower east side, where it is very green. Bring in some families, commit to a town council, and really make a go of it. If that means building walls to keep other out, so be it.

[RickBeall]

You can move into Detroit and be perfectly safe. But it is not like the suburbs where you can move in just anywhere. You have to pick your spot, pick your neighbors. The simple test I do is walk around the block. Do you feel safe and comfortable? Do you want to get to know the people around you? If you don't feel safe, or don't want to know the people in your neighborhood, then don't move there. Your gut feelings can tell you a lot, if you listen.

You were naive in your first choice and have had an expensive lesson. Do you learn from the lesson, or in 10 years, will this just be a good story to tell when you are drunk?

We hate to see a good man go down.

[majohnson]

Okay, I did lots of 'testing'.
I walked around the neighborhood, down John R. at midnight. I listened for gunshots, I visited at night every other night for two weeks, checked the DPD crime map, I grew up a 7 minutes away on 7 Mile, my aunt lives on Grixdale, I talked to neighbors before moving.

The story is some young men on the street are doing the theft. Roughly, a few weeks after my neighbor moved [[now a vacant house on each side) the young male started robbing. They robbed three houses on the block in one night. The owner of the home next door found his radiators in a nearby vacant lot.
I found my electric lawnmower in an adjacent empty lot. I purchased that lawanmower in hopes that it would not have street value, so maybe I was right.
I may just buy a used furnace, pay for forced air ductwork, and sell the place. All that with efforts to mitigate any total loss.

Why did I pick that neighborhood?
I rennovated and maintained St. Anthony Park in a distressed area on Detroit's far east side in summer 2010. The park was huge and it was quite difficult. I learned many in the neighborhood shared lawnmowers, had a difficult time requesting city services, etc.
I felt that my efforts would be better used helping solidify a Detroit neighborhood. After purchasing the home I fought the same issues from the Park. I cut my neighbor's lawn, let them borrow hedge trimmers, worked with the city to unclog long time clogged street drains,went to the police station to request increased surveillance which was sucessful in getting some drug dealers to stop selling from the porch of an abandoned home, cleaned up an abandoned home's yard, and even got the police to board up the drug house.

I moved there because I knew I would have an effect on the neighborhood.
Crime is a negative econmic externality, which increases the living costs of those around, whether it be spending on replacing stolen goods or increased spending on security, or disinvestment in the crime ridden neighborhood.
My presence and work was a positive externality. I hoped to provide services to my neighborhood for free, cleaning up, liaisoning with the city's public works, interacting with police officers.
I also hoped to convince my friends to buy and rehab homes once I proved that it could work.
A few people I know have moved from Royal Oak to Detroit, but they are all in Woodbridge, perhaps I should have done the same.

I have not given up though. I may still get the house running during the summer and install a forced air heating system, which is less of a target for scrappers.
I just hope they theives don't ruin the walls with graffitti etc. because I did a lot of wall repair.

Private citizens can change the city in ways government spending will not.
Nevertheless, again we see the problem with people who violate private propery rights.

[mikefmich]

Majohnson, my hat is off to you.

[Zacha341]

Hmm, is that Orson Welles clapping? LOL!

Majohnson, my hat is off to you.

[Dexlin]

You were naive in your first choice and have had an expensive lesson. Do you learn from the lesson, or in 10 years, will this just be a good story to tell when you are drunk?

We hate to see a good man go down.

You know, that was my only real point in asking. I've seen too many folks buy homes in obviously distressed places [[places unlike the very historic inner-city hoods that can be creatively reused and saved outright over the long term), get beaten by the neighborhood, and then end up some of the worst city-haters you've ever seen. There is something worse than not trying, and it's trying where you set yourself up for failure.

Grixdale is not the worst neighborhood in the city, but I could literally find only two other Census tracts -- the one bound by the Davison, Chrysler, 6 Mile and Conant and the one that includes city airport -- that lost more population than the tract that covers Grixdale Farms did [[it loss 55.4% of its population over the last decade). It loss even more of its population than State Fair neighborhood directly to the north. Point is that perhaps it would be smarter to invest in areas others are investing in. If people really want to invest in moving to Detroit, they can really hope by investing in existing villages. The very worst thing the "pioneers" could do is to spread themselves thin, particularly in areas that will formally be shut down over the coming years or where the community has already done such organically.

People can buy wherever they want; it's even better, though, when they buy where they can make the greatest difference.

[corktownyuppie]

The very worst thing the "pioneers" could do is to spread themselves thin, particularly in areas that will formally be shut down over the coming years or where the community has already done such organically.

No one would confuse me for a true pioneer, other than all my suburban friends who think I was cutting edge making the decision to move back to Detroit 5 years ago. But you can make a difference at the margins of critical mass. You'll do no good turning a neighborhood around if you don't come in with enough manpower to create a critical mass.

I do like this idea of saving a neighborhood one block at a time by showing in full force. If I could get 10 people who were interested in investing in the city to all commit to buying a home on the same block, meeting monthly to hash out problems, pooling funds to pay for extra security if necessary, you can really quickly build a critical mass that way.

I agree that the private sector can make an impact in ways the public sector can not. But you have to go in with a strong show of firepower to win the war, and that take co-operation and leadership. I don't think that you can do it one house at a time.

Curious, though....you think there are enough DYes forum members who would go pick a block just on the fringe and all agree to commit to investing?

[GoGrixdale]

...pick a block just on the fringe and all agree to commit to investing?

What block? What fringe? What return?

[evergreen]

I just saw this thread for the first time yesterday and knew that the outcome would not be good. Since this story began more than a year ago, I didn't have to wait long to get the to the conclusion.

Detroit is in the midst of a B&E epidemic. Even a council member's house was broken into in broad daylight recently. I have friends, even in EEV, whose homes were broken into multiple times. In at least one case, it caused a lot of emotional damage to a young family member. The sense of violation and insecurity thereafter is very, very real. These are property crimes in name only.

Forget about walking around a neighborhood trying to get a "feel" for it. Get the facts. Go to the crime statistic site on the internet and check out the crime rate. http://www.crimemapping.com/ If you adjust the map to look at the area near 8 Mile one feature will jump out at you. The area south of 8 Mile [[Detroit) looks like it has a raging case of the measles. The area to the north looks like it has a very mild case of acne.

There are many neighborhoods like mine, that look pretty good, but have an unnerving rate of criminal activity. Trust me, once you get away from the brand-name showplace neighborhoods in Detroit, you are absolutely on your own.

[softailrider]

I just saw this thread for the first time yesterday and knew that the outcome would not be good. Since this story began more than a year ago, I didn't have to wait long to get the to the conclusion.

Detroit is in the midst of a B&E epidemic. Even a council member's house was broken into in broad daylight recently. I have friends, even in EEV, whose homes were broken into multiple times. In at least one case, it caused a lot of emotional damage to a young family member. The sense of violation and insecurity thereafter is very, very real. These are property crimes in name only.

Forget about walking around a neighborhood trying to get a "feel" for it. Get the facts. Go to the crime statistic site on the internet and check out the crime rate. http://www.crimemapping.com/ If you adjust the map to look at the area near 8 Mile one feature will jump out at you. The area south of 8 Mile [[Detroit) looks like it has a raging case of the measles. The area to the north looks like it has a very mild case of acne.

There are many neighborhoods like mine, that look pretty good, but have an unnerving rate of criminal activity. Trust me, once you get away from the brand-name showplace neighborhoods in Detroit, you are absolutely on your own.

Only thing that suprises me is that it took a year for that house the guy was renovating to get ripped off, thought it would have happened way earlier.

[Dexlin]

I just saw this thread for the first time yesterday and knew that the outcome would not be good. Since this story began more than a year ago, I didn't have to wait long to get the to the conclusion.

Detroit is in the midst of a B&E epidemic. Even a council member's house was broken into in broad daylight recently. I have friends, even in EEV, whose homes were broken into multiple times. In at least one case, it caused a lot of emotional damage to a young family member. The sense of violation and insecurity thereafter is very, very real. These are property crimes in name only.

Forget about walking around a neighborhood trying to get a "feel" for it. Get the facts. Go to the crime statistic site on the internet and check out the crime rate. http://www.crimemapping.com/ If you adjust the map to look at the area near 8 Mile one feature will jump out at you. The area south of 8 Mile [[Detroit) looks like it has a raging case of the measles. The area to the north looks like it has a very mild case of acne.

There are many neighborhoods like mine, that look pretty good, but have an unnerving rate of criminal activity. Trust me, once you get away from the brand-name showplace neighborhoods in Detroit, you are absolutely on your own.

You do know that only participating partners show up on crimemapping.com, don't you? Detroit participates [[though, they don't report homicides to the site), and most of the rest of the metropolitan doesn't. You know this, right?

[evergreen]

The burbs directly north of me do participate. I go to that site quite regularly and because I live near 8 Mile road, I am quite aware of the contrast.

[English]

I have made great progress on the home, and planned to move in within a week or so.
All I had left to do was hang the bathroom sink, reconnect the toilet, and reconnect the kitchen sink. [[after removing the bathroom walls, floor, and ceiling; roof, plumbing, wall repair, etc.)

Sadly, the home was robbed twice this week. The radiators I purchased and the heating boiler was stolen.
The costs have risen and the potential benefit has not.
Also, I will find it difficult to have peace of mind sleeping there after two robbings in one week.

BTW, the robbers were not able to see the supplies from the windows, the acted on a belief that with all the work going on, there would have been property of value inside.
The robbers removed steel security bars from the window to gain entry.

I have not given up on Detroit though. I have given up on cheap living in Detroit.
Sadly it looks like one has spend a lot of money to live safely in Detroit.
I would be willing to move into a multiple dwelling building with secure parking.

Many people warned me. Some warned me against Detroit, others suggested Woodbridge.

Perhaps I should have moved to Woodbridge.
For now, I will stay in Royal Oak.

So sorry this happened to you. It's so frustrating that the powers that be in this city see property crime and vandalism as par for the course.

[Zacha341]

YES! The B&E factor inclusive of the stripping of things 'outside' of homes [[the removal of aluminum sidings, electrical substation copper milling, monuments, streetlight casings, man hole covers, copper and bronze grave site markers et al) is increasing!!!!!! Having known of two families with who lived thru home invasions as well, I'm wanting out. This wave of justified theft will make more people question staying or relocating to Detroit.

...Detroit is in the midst of a B&E epidemic. Even a council member's house was broken into in broad daylight recently. I have friends, even in EEV, whose homes were broken into multiple times. In at least one case, it caused a lot of emotional damage to a young family member. The sense of violation and insecurity thereafter is very, very real.

[Zacha341]

Yep, and it's been easy for the 'powers' to do nothing. They were ok, driving thru the 'bad areas' to their better neighborhoods and setups. However, now the crime of vandelism, B&E etc. is coming to their blocks!! The criminals are expanding their 'territory' to those once-upon-a-time more insulated areas and subdivisions WITHIN the city. Nothing like that alternative 'neighborhood watch' where when you go to work in they 'come' to shop your stuff. No thank you.

So sorry this happened to you. It's so frustrating that the powers that be in this city see property crime and vandalism as par for the course.

[Autoracks]

Buy a dog. Perhaps reconsider something closer to school.

[majohnson]

I have not given up.
This blocks is teetering on the edge and can go either way.
Earlier this year an empty house on the block was rehabbed and is no longer empty.

I am now in contact with the person who owns the property next to mine.
He owns two homes on the block.
He has given me some pointers.

I like the idea of Dyesers picking a block to invest in. But it probably makes more sense to just focus on keeping strong blocks strong and radiating outward.
Another idea is to get several single people living in one multi-bedroom house so that it is infrequently empty.

[Zacha341]

Encouraging and very good news that you've connected with a homeowner owning additional property on the block! And yes, more people in a home the better. Things are going that way anyway as more people live together to share resources.

I live in a two-unit property with someone living in the finished basement as well... it's a great safety factor as someone is always home or coming and going and various hours and you share the bills and commitment to the property and lifestyle of the block.

I'd have got out of Detroit years ago if I did not have this living arrangement. You don't want to be isolated in Detroit! You cannot live and thrive like that! Shared goals and commitment make a difference.

I have not given up.
This blocks is teetering on the edge and can go either way.
Earlier this year an empty house on the block was rehabbed and is no longer empty.

I am now in contact with the person who owns the property next to mine.
He owns two homes on the block.
He has given me some pointers.

I like the idea of Dyesers picking a block to invest in. But it probably makes more sense to just focus on keeping strong blocks strong and radiating outward.
Another idea is to get several single people living in one multi-bedroom house so that it is infrequently empty.

[Zacha341]

LOL! We have 4 pit bulls, come borrow one of them!

Buy a dog. Perhaps reconsider something closer to school.

[canuck]

I have not given up.
This blocks is teetering on the edge and can go either way.
Earlier this year an empty house on the block was rehabbed and is no longer empty.

I am now in contact with the person who owns the property next to mine.
He owns two homes on the block.
He has given me some pointers.

I like the idea of Dyesers picking a block to invest in. But it probably makes more sense to just focus on keeping strong blocks strong and radiating outward.
Another idea is to get several single people living in one multi-bedroom house so that it is infrequently empty.

The quality of existing structures in Detroit is important enough that programs to help people resettle the city should be directed to strong blocks as many people say on this forum. Dont give up on your good-looking neighborhood. I dont know about the evolution or devolution of quality housing on your street but looking at Streetview, there is evidence that people care about their properties. Tell tale signs of decline are things like the lack of trimming of trees, and it is obvious the city has a lot to deal with these days. But overall, there is a sense that these streets have better days ahead with people like you making a difference.
I wish you the best majohnson.

[southofbloor]

[QUOTE=majohnson;281213]I have not given up.

Good to hear you're committed to the neighbourhood. When I was growing up in the 70's we regularly visited a favourite great aunt, Mary Eleanor McGarvah, who lived at 79 Cedarhurst. I remember the street having nice old ladies and peonies. By the time Aunt Nell left the house for a nursing home in the mid 70's there were regular house fires visible within the immediate vicinity. Last time I photographed it in 2000 the house was boarded up, but since then it has I think been rehabbed and hope they've stuck with it. Great little dutch colonial with a lot of good karma. Think I have pics of it from the 40's/50's somewhere.

[rex]

Hope you got a car to get around. You may get mugged waiting 3 hours for a Hamilton or Woodward bus. Do your shopping a Kroger and not market such as King Coles

This. I hope you have a garage too. good luck

[majohnson]

Last update.
I 'sold' the house this morning. Due to the taxes, I actually eneded up writing a $60 check to the private buyer.

Among the latest things to be stolen were the window counter-balance weights and my downspots, some of which were plastic.

At least now, if someone is murdered and dumped in the basement, I don't have to deal with it. Or if someone falls on the sidewalk, not my liability anymore.

The new owner wants to buy a few homes on the block and rent the homes.
I wish him luck.

[Detroitgayhistoryguy]

Last update.
I 'sold' the house this morning. Due to the taxes, I actually eneded up writing a $60 check to the private buyer.

Among the latest things to be stolen were the window counter-balance weights and my downspots, some of which were plastic.

At least now, if someone is murdered and dumped in the basement, I don't have to deal with it. Or if someone falls on the sidewalk, not my liability anymore.

The new owner wants to buy a few homes on the block and rent the homes.
I wish him luck.

Other people said it in previous posts, you really gotta pick your neighborhood carefully in Detroit. The location of this neighborhood is wonderful, it is a shame it is so bad. I wouldn't give up on Detroit, just be very, very picky about where you choose next time. I would look in midtown, but that is a block by block and area by area thing as well. Research is king.