Vanity Ballroom 2010

[DC48080]

Here is the contact info for the owner:

Leroy Burgess
125 Delaware Street
Detroit, MI 48202-2478

Just remember that he is a businessman and probably would not appreciate his time being taken up with fantasy talk about a decrepit building. Line up funding and make him a bona fide offer for the property.

If you can pull it off I will be the first one there on the opening day of your pizza palace and congratulate you, provided you have armed security to protect the patrons as well as their cars.

[papillonaquatique]

Here is the contact info for the owner:

Leroy Burgess
125 Delaware Street
Detroit, MI 48202-2478

Just remember that he is a businessman and probably would not appreciate his time being taken up with fantasy talk about a decrepit building. Line up funding and make him a bona fide offer for the property.

THANK YOU! Now if I can just find a copy of the blue prints I will be all set!

I don't intend to waste his time. That is why I am trying to get my act together before my friends and I make a proposal. I am the planning type and considering I have never been to Detroit I have alot of homework to do before I leap in and purchase a building. These things do take time. Some people just expect things to happen over night and it can be a bit frustrating at times. Do you happen to have the contact info for the owners of The Grande Ballroom as well?

[DC48080]

Do you happen to have the contact info for the owners of The Grande Ballroom as well?

No, I do not.

As to the blueprints; considering that this building is more than 80 years old and has been through multiple owners, the chance of original blueprints being extant is very low.

[papillonaquatique]

If you can pull it off I will be the first one there on the opening day of your pizza palace and congratulate you, provided you have armed security to protect the patrons as well as their cars.

Well I am hoping for The Grande due to my brothers being musicians and being a fan of 60's culture. However the artwork in The Vanity is just too beautiful. My friends are in the Navy and they want to start up a bakery. The lower floors of these buildings were originally used for retail so I am looking at our options. They are leaving it up to me to explore our options and figure out which building would be the best fit.

Speaking of cars do either of these buildings have parking spaces or a lot nearby where people can park?

[pkbroch]

1. I am not from Detroit so I don't have a clue what the neighborhoods are like.

2. Where I live now the colleges give courses on ballroom dancing. It is really popular here. However it wouldn't be the only use for the building and I am sure that alternative arrangements could be reached.

3. I estimated 20K for the roofing due to the average roof repair cost where I am at costs 10K but The Grande and The Vanity are bigger and I assumed they would cost more. I could very well be wrong. As for the interior being 50K I mean just to gut the interior. No repairs of any kind.

4. Are you kidding me? I bet you could get a break for historically accurate repairs. I can understand wheelchair access but why would anyone in a wheelchair be in a ballroom? I guess maybe to watch?

5. I don't have the contact info for the current owners nor the original floor plan for this building. Me and a group of friends are interested in the building and we have come up with several ideas but until I get the information we need we can't really formulate a plan. I have emailed Leo and I hope he will be in touch.

6. Why is it so hard to find out anything about The Grande or The Vanity from their early years and why are people so secretive about information regarding these buildings?

PLEASE DO YOURSELF A FAVOR:

Use some of your investments and purchase a Delta Airlines ticket for $ 315.41 round trip.
It is flight # 1121, leaving Salt Lake City to Detroit.

When you get at the airport, rent a car. Drive to one of the downtown hotels. I recommend the Hilton Garden Inn on Jefferson. Drive Jefferson east and check out the places you are talking about. All the speculation will not give an accurate picture of what you are talking about you must see Detroit in person to invest wisely.

Fall is a lovely time to come.

[papillonaquatique]

No, I do not.

As to the blueprints; considering that this building is more than 80 years old and has been through multiple owners, the chance of original blueprints being extant is very low.

They don't have to be the actual original copy just a copy of the original blueprints. I figured maybe a library or city hall would have them on file or something somewhere. I plan on making a trip to Detroit early next year and I am trying to get everything put together beforehand but so far I have had little luck with either building.

[DC48080]

First you will need to find out what the owner is asking for the property. Then you will need to select an architect and competant contractor to accompany you on a walk through of the building. Then you will need to do a CBA to see if the project is feasible. Once this is done you must present a business plan to potential lenders or investors.

Good luck. God knows you'll certainly need it.

[papillonaquatique]

First you will need to find out what the owner is asking for the property. Then you will need to select an architect and competant contractor to accompany you on a walk through of the building. Then you will need to do a CBA to see if the project is feasible. Once this is done you must present a business plan to potential lenders or investors.

Good luck. God knows you'll certainly need it.

We won't be using lenders or investors. This money is all our own. I wanted to do this all by myself but I showed these buildings to my friends and they have agreed to put up their own funds matching mine provided we can come up with a reasonable agreement and business plan. This helps me out a great deal by minimizing my individual risk. I won't be buying any property without having it inspected first as well as having several estimates for repair costs. Then I can fill in the blanks and present the owner with a serious offer right off the bat.

Thank you for the luck. I do indeed need it.

[kathy2trips]

It's still very expensive to do business in Detroit. The sooner it becomes small business and corporate-friendly, the sooner Detroit will be on it's way. And papillonaquatique will be a "visionary". [[Hope so.) Being so close to the Pointes, the area is well-suited to future gentrification, provided all the architectural charm and uniqueness isn't bulldozed under. BTW: Wouldn't a copy of prints be filed with the city? I also thought a copy had to be filed with the State and/or Feds if it is of any historic designation. The Vanity was placed on the National Register of Historic Places in 1982. The Grande Ballroom has yet to achieve Federal designation. [[http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_pe...d.cgi?grande05)

[Whitehouse]

Those ropes in the beginning of the clip....

[[As someone said before...) I smell Banksy!

Edit:
I posted that remark with a bit of irony but looking back at the clip it might even be the genuine article!! Even the lamp on the front wall was painted!

Rope on the right, lloks Banksy-esque


Look at thet lamp. Painted!

If this indeed is a Banksy work, paint it over before someone rips a supporting wall out by accident!!! I just mailed to the contact address on the site of Banksy to find out if they know more.


What was that organisation that completely decorated the outside of the charred remains of the Forrest Arms Apartment building? Call them into action to save this gem!\

And put a banner on the building with a simple message: "Save this building!"

I guess the building must be important since it even has a German wikipage.

[Hamtragedy]

I was in there in the late 80's. I have no idea who ran or managed the place but a friend and I had a DJ gig in there, thanks to Tish and Gordon, who used to bounce at Majestic and Liedernacht. Fun Magazine had a Halloween Bash there in 87 or 88 and the place was packed. The ceiling had a slight leak in it then, but there were only two buckets on the freshly waxed dancefloor when you would first walk in, just in case it rained. There was a bar that was was completely in tact. This would be about 5-6 years before Burgess purchased it. He has since allowed it to rot. Stick a fork in it, it's done.


I wish the roof could be fixed for 10K but for a complete tear-off of a 90 year old tar roof with a slight pitch and damaged rafters, you could easily pay upwards of 50K-75K to consider putting on a new roof correctly. The clay tiles sure ain't cheap either, just ask Pewabic what they paid 7 years ago to put a new roof on the fire station across the street from them.

As for 50K for any kind of renovations to the Vanity or the Grande, try adding at least a zero, then doubling or tripling that number. It might be lower if you do alot of the work yourself. If you and your buds have a couple cool million to burn, then we can only say please. But if you realistically think you could even gut one of these places for 50, and protect it from the elements, then I know you're not serious.

[fryar]

PapillonAquatique, what? I go away for a few weeks, and now you want to invest in one of these places, to turn them into pizza parlors with a bakery? What happened to your nursery idea?

You ABSOLUTELY should visit Detroit and that location in particular before doing this, and take that opportunity to talk to some folks who know Detroit and can give you tours of some other areas that might make more sense to invest in. This sounds really well-intentioned, but misplaced. I don't think this idea works, as a business idea.

I guess you could make it a community center or something, where you don't expect a return.

Sorry. It's nice of you to want to save one of Detroit's gems.

[papillonaquatique]

PapillonAquatique, what? I go away for a few weeks, and now you want to invest in one of these places, to turn them into pizza parlors with a bakery? What happened to your nursery idea?

You ABSOLUTELY should visit Detroit and that location in particular before doing this, and take that opportunity to talk to some folks who know Detroit and can give you tours of some other areas that might make more sense to invest in. This sounds really well-intentioned, but misplaced. I don't think this idea works, as a business idea.

I guess you could make it a community center or something, where you don't expect a return.

Sorry. It's nice of you to want to save one of Detroit's gems.

I still want a nursery. However I have gotten several of my friends intersted in investing with me now provided we can come to some kind of group arrangement. This minimizes my financial risk and I think it is worth looking into. Especially since I don't want to go it alone.

I plan on visiting Detroit in person early next year for a few days. I would never purchase anything sight unseen. Leo told me that if I were to do something with either building that it would have to be a non-profit. That does not work for my friends. However if I were to do a non-profit I would like to do an LDS food bank. They do alot of good around here and maybe Detroit could use something like that if they don't already have enough of them set up. Once I get to Detroit I would like to have something to do in order to give back to the community. Perhaps you and the other posters here have some suggestions?

[papillonaquatique]

As for 50K for any kind of renovations to the Vanity or the Grande, try adding at least a zero, then doubling or tripling that number. It might be lower if you do alot of the work yourself. If you and your buds have a couple cool million to burn, then we can only say please. But if you realistically think you could even gut one of these places for 50, and protect it from the elements, then I know you're not serious.

My friends are in the Navy and they each have wonderful Navy husbands who will be moving with them. They are not afraid of hard work and nor am I. We hope to be able to do alot of the work ourselves to cut costs and just for the experience of learning something new. It would be alot easier to estimate costs if we could get ahold of the plans for the building so we can figure out all of the little things. That is where we are stuck currently. You would think the city would have it on file somewhere or at least have a number to call so someone could get back to you or something. Maybe I am just not looking hard enough?

[papillonaquatique]

Those ropes in the beginning of the clip....

[[As someone said before...) I smell Banksy!

Edit:
I posted that remark with a bit of irony but looking back at the clip it might even be the genuine article!! Even the lamp on the front wall was painted!

Rope on the right, lloks Banksy-esque


Look at thet lamp. Painted!

If this indeed is a Banksy work, paint it over before someone rips a supporting wall out by accident!!! I just mailed to the contact address on the site of Banksy to find out if they know more.


What was that organisation that completely decorated the outside of the charred remains of the Forrest Arms Apartment building? Call them into action to save this gem!\

And put a banner on the building with a simple message: "Save this building!"

I guess the building must be important since it even has a German wikipage.

I understand that Banksy is an artist but does he really have a clue to the fact that his art is putting buildings in danger of scrappers and so called art thieves?

[DC48080]

Leo told me that if I were to do something with either building that it would have to be a non-profit.

Who is this Leo person that you've referenced several times?

[papillonaquatique]

Who is this Leo person that you've referenced several times?

Leo Early. He is working on a book in regards to The Grande Ballroom. Both buildings were designed by the same person and share many similarities. He knows alot more about them than I do.

[DC48080]

So why does he feel that any venture regarding these buildings must be a non-profit?

[papillonaquatique]

So why does he feel that any venture regarding these buildings must be a non-profit?

I asked him that and he has not gotten the chance to reply to my email yet.

[DC48080]

Whether intended or not, any business venture in that area will turn out to be non-profit. In other words, making a profit on operating a business there will be just about impossible.

[papillonaquatique]

Whether intended or not, any business venture in that area will turn out to be non-profit. In other words, making a profit on operating a business there will be just about impossible.

The Vanity, The Grande or both? Can you explain to me which areas of Detroit are decent and which areas are just too far gone? It seems like Detroit is just speckled with areas that are ok and areas that the city could do without. It seems like most people believe that the farther your building is from the Fox Theater the less likely it is to succeed.

[pkbroch]

PLEASE DO YOURSELF A FAVOR:

Use some of your investments and purchase a Delta Airlines ticket for $ 315.41 round trip.
It is flight # 1121, leaving Salt Lake City to Detroit.

When you get at the airport, rent a car. Drive to one of the downtown hotels. I recommend the Hilton Garden Inn on Jefferson. Drive Jefferson east and check out the places you are talking about. All the speculation will not give an accurate picture of what you are talking about you must see Detroit in person to invest wisely.

Fall is a lovely time to come.

Now your talking two ballrooms. Why waste 4-6 months talking about a project when you haven't even checked it out.

Blue prints may be held by that City Engineering department, but in order to obtain a copy, if possible, you have to have a vested interest.

[papillonaquatique]

I am checking out both ballrooms and several other buildings as possibilities. The Grande and The Vanity are my first picks due to their history and design but I am also looking at other buildings incase neither of these buildings can be saved. I am looking around now so I can map out where I need to visit once I get to Detroit and so I can have appointments to view these buildings made ect. Time investigating is time well spent.

Trying to find the plans for either of these two buildings is like pulling teeth I swear.

[fryar]

Just wanted to chime back in. If you're ok with something like the food bank idea, that's different. Didn't realize you were putting so much planning into this & just wanted to make sure you didn't go off half-cocked.

FWIW: The area north of the Vanity Ballroom looks pretty abandoned as well. The area around the Grande Ballroom looks a lot more populated.

[mcsdetroitfriend]

one of those lamp posts is in MCS, same exact thing