Vanity Ballroom 2010

bartock · August-12-10, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by preserve

new curbs everywhere - it's the law. doesn't matter if no one
lives there, they have to have handicap curbs everywhere.
N. Corktown is another area that has the sidewalks to nowhere, but the curbs are new and those bright little orange circles.

This describes parts of West Warren Avenue [[recently repaved with brand new sidewalks to nowhere).

bartock · August-12-10, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by claireianthelibrarian

Ugh, it hurts watching that place get desecrated.

Last spring, I wanna say the East Jefferson Business Association had some sort of Come to Jesus meeting aimed at the building owner about the state of unboarded-ness. Anyone know anything about that? Anyone attend?

Also: Would it be hard to board it back up? I don't wanna ruin fellow explorers' fun, and I know a new roof would matter just as much, but.... I can borrow a power drill and chip in for plywood, if a couple of you are a lil stronger than me and someone's got a truck. Would it matter? Anyone in?

Call the Mower Club and make it a whole day, whole block boarding up and landscaping. I'd come.

**reddog289** · August-12-10, 08:27 PM

From what I gather putting boards over an abandoned buildings window is like putting your finger in a leaky dam.Going back to the thread on Marabel, Her street was not always like that.The Vanity I belive was in that WTVS special Detroit Remember When. It looked good.No one fears a No Tresspassing sign anymore.
I just am starting to blame it on 40 years of a bad additude by many people.People leaving their property unwatched and those who jump on it saying "Well NOBODY CARES". Robinwood St where Marabel lived was according to the story full of renters. I am not saying that all renters are bad, or the landlords for that matter. But you got the renters saying "It's not my place I don't give a F#&k, " and the owners thinking "Well as long as I am getting some money from that property it's fine".
This Burgess fellow who owns the Vanity, he and other investors are part of the problem, Boarding up a building is one thing, Keeping it boarded up is a whole nother deal.

**detroiturbex** · August-12-10, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by claireianthelibrarian

Ugh, it hurts watching that place get desecrated.

Last spring, I wanna say the East Jefferson Business Association had some sort of Come to Jesus meeting aimed at the building owner about the state of unboarded-ness. Anyone know anything about that? Anyone attend?

Also: Would it be hard to board it back up? I don't wanna ruin fellow explorers' fun, and I know a new roof would matter just as much, but.... I can borrow a power drill and chip in for plywood, if a couple of you are a lil stronger than me and someone's got a truck. Would it matter? Anyone in?

The fun of a few explorers pales in comparison to preserving the building. I don't think we'd even need a board, just a giant chain with an equally giant clip-proof padlock to resecure the gate. Count me in.

**papillonaquatique** · August-12-10, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by reddog289

From what I gather putting boards over an abandoned buildings window is like putting your finger in a leaky dam.I just am starting to blame it on 40 years of a bad additude by many people.People leaving their property unwatched and those who jump on it saying "Well NOBODY CARES". But you got the renters saying "It's not my place I don't give a F#&k, " and the owners thinking "Well as long as I am getting some money from that property it's fine".
This Burgess fellow who owns the Vanity, he and other investors are part of the problem, Boarding up a building is one thing, Keeping it boarded up is a whole nother deal.

I am looking to invest and renovate buildings and properties in Detroit but the people scare me. It makes anyone who is even thinking about helping say "Why bother when it will only take a scrapper an hour to screw up any progress I make anyway?" Detroit is so beautiful and has so much to offer but the crime keeps anything from being done. I can live with a bunch of people with bad attitudes. I can't live with the fear and worry for the safety of my property as well as my own personal safety. I will continue to look for some balance though unless I can see that anything I do that might help will be purely worthless.

**Leo B** · August-12-10, 10:44 PM

Trolling....

**papillonaquatique** · August-12-10, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by Leo B

Trolling....

Not trolling just honesty. It is hard to get behind a cause when you would have so much to lose. I used to think that maybe one person could do it alone but I can see now that unless you have support that any efforts you make are likely to be futile. Why pour my money into The Grande or The Vanity when I alone can't stop the vandals? I would love to help but it would take a team of wild horses to keep the trouble out of either building. It is a shame because they are both works of art.

**detroiturbex** · August-13-10, 10:15 PM

Drove past the vanity today, someone was in the process of boarding it up. Kudos to whomever it was.

**kathy2trips** · August-14-10, 03:00 AM

Originally Posted by detroiturbex

Drove past the vanity today, someone was in the process of boarding it up. Kudos to whomever it was.

Thank you unknown board-er for your decency. I'm pretty tough and I've seen a few Detroit "trasher" films, but this one made me cry.

There was such a big dance culture in surrounding the Vanity Ballroom. There were studios and schools in that general area.

**canuck** · August-14-10, 03:22 AM

If it had been closer to Mexicantown, it could have been turned into a nice community center. I hope it stays up. There are a lot of nice details. I wonder are the bas-relief aztec and or mayan inspired tiles from Pewabic's tileworks? That stretch of town is pretty sad. The quality of architecture left dormant and some of those side streets are impeccable. To think these people have to drive a long ways to find groceries and everything used to be nearby.

**Al Publican** · August-14-10, 03:31 PM

I was back in Detroit last April and glanced over at it while on Jefferson. Did the fire yesterday in the Jefferson-Dickerson area reach the old Vanity Ballroom buidling? Who owns that building?

**FerndaleDamon** · August-14-10, 03:54 PM

No, the fire didn't reach the Vanity, as it was a few blocks away.

**claireianthelibrarian** · August-15-10, 01:55 AM

To echo others, THANK YOU ANONYBOARDER!

Kathy2trips, much agreed. With a number of abandoned building visits under my belt, I still was really upset after my visit to the Vanity.

canuck, I believe the Aztec shapes are from the same molds as those used originally in the construction of the Fisher Theater. Not a Pewabic connection. Still really cool, though.

**mauser** · August-15-10, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by detroiturbex

Drove past the vanity today, someone was in the process of boarding it up. Kudos to whomever it was.

SWEET !

Somebody gave me crap for publishing that video with the entry shown wide open. I showed it open because it should be closed. I hope the owner got word and went to take care of it himself. They put the huge metal security barriers on all the openings at one point, so you would think he could come pull that gate shut and cover up what is basically the font door.

Vanity was sealed tight for a couple decades, it is possible to keep buildings closed.

**DetroitZack** · August-15-10, 11:58 PM

I drove by yesterday and like detroiturbex said it is now boarded up pretty good. That's good to hear. But still, I would be shocked if this building isn't eventually demolished. The damage to the ballroom I think is too far gone for someone to want to do anything with the place.

**papillonaquatique** · August-16-10, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitZack

I drove by yesterday and like detroiturbex said it is now boarded up pretty good. That's good to hear. But still, I would be shocked if this building isn't eventually demolished. The damage to the ballroom I think is too far gone for someone to want to do anything with the place.

Oh the ballroom needs to be completely gutted and a new one put it that is for certain but I just hope whoever does it keeps to the original design simply because it is so beautiful.

If I had to take bets on who boarded up the building I would put my money on the owner. If I owned that building and saw a bunch of people talking on a public forum about how easily they could get into it I would be down there within hours to fix the situation.

**DetroitZack** · August-16-10, 02:56 PM

Too bad it is still open to the elements via the roof. That's what I think seals its fate. I mean it could definately still be repaired but I don't see someone actually wanting to do that.

**fryar** · August-16-10, 07:24 PM

1) +1 Thank you, anonyboarder!!!
2) So this guy's plan is to let the place rot, thanks to the open roof, until Detroit bounces back, at which time it will be worth gazillions because of, well, the rot? It's not called investment to just sit on a deed and let the property in question go to hell. Investment creates value, or at least seeks to, whereas this is purely destructive.
3) Papillon, I totally get what you're saying, it comes down to a spray painter being just as destructive as the real estate speculator [[on the road to bankruptcy, it seems), but people who connect this to a persistently depressed economy probably have a point.
4) And yet, maybe they're missing the point as well. This is something I don't get about [[metro) Detroit. So it's the 50's, and you've got highways and cars, and racial strife, and so people sprawl and sprawl and sprawl, sure, I get that. But they must have been doing so with a vengeance, or what am I missing? In New York, in between cars, highways and the suburban commuter trains, suburbs became more feasible in the 50's as well, and a lot of middle class people filled in the areas between the farms and country estates, sure enough, but when they went to the Opera, the Theater, Broadway, museums, and so on and so forth, they still came into the city, and let me tell you, it is way more of a PITA to come into NYC from the burbs than that quick 20 minute drive to downtown from Troy, door to door. This place looks like it was really decked out and would have been hard to match, so why did it die, decades ago? People just stopped dancing, or they stopped dancing in nice p[[a)laces? Suburban kids and college students come to the Fox for shows, right? So why didn't their parents' generation go dancing at Vanity Ballroom? Race issues, I expect, but it's definitely a shame to see willful abandonment do it's worst at the expense of highlight after highlight, like in this case, in the process robbing Detroit of cultural pedigree.

**papillonaquatique** · August-16-10, 11:58 PM

Regardless of who it was I too would like to thank the anonyboarder. It is nice to know that someone else cares too.

Is The Vanity constructed of a solid outer shell as well? The inside will have to be replaced regardless of a new roof or not but I do hope that the foundation and any brick work is solid enough to last.

Would it be too much to hope that perhaps The Vanity and or The Grande could be gutted and then maybe turned into a theater/food place of some kind. Maybe like a pizza palace type place that also shows cartoons for the children to watch? I mean if you could gut the inside of either building and then slap a roof on top of either one you might be able to run such a place of business I assume? The cost to replace the interior of either building would be sky high but maybe if you could run a different type of business for awhile you may be able to save up the funds to restore the building completely over time? That may be worth a shot. I would think that you could get some volunteers to help with the gutting of most of the building to help cut costs and then you would only have to deal with putting up a roof and then starting up a small business of some kind. 20K for the roof, 50K for the gutting and structural issues and 30K for the business sounds possible to me.

**EASTSIDE CAT 67-83** · August-17-10, 07:50 AM

Yes it would be too much to hope, this gem from the past is just that. The surrounding neighborhood is devoid of any economic activity and there really is no draw to bring people back into these areas for entertainment. I watched the empty shell decay over the years and it kept pace with the neighborhood. Its just a story with a sad ending.

**papillonaquatique** · August-17-10, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by EASTSIDE CAT 67-83

Yes it would be too much to hope, this gem from the past is just that. The surrounding neighborhood is devoid of any economic activity and there really is no draw to bring people back into these areas for entertainment. I watched the empty shell decay over the years and it kept pace with the neighborhood. Its just a story with a sad ending.

The Vanity or The Grande or both? I tell you what for an outsider trying to figure out where the good neighborhoods are at I can't seem to find one. It seems there are bad things in every neck of the woods up there. I wish someone could break it down section by section for me at some point because I just don't seem to get it and I am trying to. Detroit seems like a fabulous city but with a fair share of problems currently but that shouldn't doom it forever.

DC48080 · August-17-10, 08:16 AM

I hate to rain on the Pollyanna parade here but all of these fantasies need to be grounded in some kind of reality.

1: The area in which this building is located is one of the poorest and highest crime areas of Detroit.

2: Ballroom dancing went out of mainstream favor many decades ago. These places would not have closed in the first place if there was a demand for the services they offered.

3: A previous poster mentioned that the roof could be replaced for $20K and the interior re-done for $50K. Assuming those figures are in U.S. Dollars and not some mystical other currency, those numbers are woefully inadequate.

4: The building is not in compliance with ADA regulations. An elevator would need to be installed to give access to the second floor. Retrofitting an elevator into such a bulding would be very expensive.

5: The building is privately owned. While I hate to see such a beautiful building sit and molder, it is the owner's prerogative to do just that if he so desires. If the aforementioned pizza palace or any other buisness plan was viable it is likely he would have done something with the building.

Sitting around and playing "golly gee, wouldn't it be swell if we had this or that in Detroit" on an internet forum isn't going to accomplish anything. These forums are irrelevant in the grand schme of things.

If you have a realistic idea for a viable use for the building, prepare a business plan and present it to investors or lending institutions and see if you can raise the capital necessary to bring your idea to fruition. Or, self-fund the project and see if you can make money from it. Money talks and fantasies walk in the real world.

**papillonaquatique** · August-17-10, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by DC48080

I hate to rain on the Pollyanna parade here but all of these fantasies need to be grounded in some kind of reality.

1: The area in which this building is located is one of the poorest and highest crime areas of Detroit.

2: Ballroom dancing went out of mainstream favor many decades ago. These places would not have closed in the first place if there was a demand for the services they offered.

3: A previous poster mentioned that the roof could be replaced for $20K andthe interior re-done for $50K. Assuming those figures are in U.S. Dollars and not some mystical other currency, those numbers are woefully inadequate.

4: The building is not in compliance with ADA regulations. An elevator would need to be installed to give access to the second floor. Retrofitting an elevator into such a bulding would be very expensive.

5: The building is privately owned. While I hate to see such a beautiful building sit and molder, it is the owner's prerogative to do just that if he so desires. If the aforementioned pizza palace or any other buisness plan was viable it is likely he would have done something with the building.

Sitting around and playing "golly gee, wouldn't it be swell if we had this or that in Detroit" on an internet forum isn't going to accomplish anything. These forums are irrelevant in the grand schme of things.

If you have a realistic idea for a viable use for the building, prepare a business plan and present it to investors or lending institutions and see if you can raise the capital necessary to bring your idea to fruition. Or, self-fund the project and see if you can make money from it. Money talks and fantasies walk in the real world.

1. I am not from Detroit so I don't have a clue what the neighborhoods are like.

2. Where I live now the colleges give courses on ballroom dancing. It is really popular here. However it wouldn't be the only use for the building and I am sure that alternative arrangements could be reached.

3. I estimated 20K for the roofing due to the average roof repair cost where I am at costs 10K but The Grande and The Vanity are bigger and I assumed they would cost more. I could very well be wrong. As for the interior being 50K I mean just to gut the interior. No repairs of any kind.

4. Are you kidding me? I bet you could get a break for historically accurate repairs. I can understand wheelchair access but why would anyone in a wheelchair be in a ballroom? I guess maybe to watch?

5. I don't have the contact info for the current owners nor the original floor plan for this building. Me and a group of friends are interested in the building and we have come up with several ideas but until I get the information we need we can't really formulate a plan. I have emailed Leo and I hope he will be in touch.

6. Why is it so hard to find out anything about The Grande or The Vanity from their early years and why are people so secretive about information regarding these buildings?

DC48080 · August-17-10, 08:46 AM

**papillonaquatique** · August-17-10, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by DC48080

If thinking about doing something makes me a Polly Anna then I am proud to be one. Everything starts with a thought after all. Besides don't you find a sense of comfort in knowing that you are not the only one who cares? That there are others like you out there with the same ambitions? That is just human nature.