Why is Brooks Patterson so well liked?

[Hermod]

Instead we would have a Detroit-version of Orville Hubbard.

Orville might have well become the uber-mayor of Michigania or whatever they might have called the lash up.

Coleman might well have ended up as a back-bencher on the fifty man city council.

[mwilbert]

I'm no expert on Patterson, but it seems to me like he has done a reasonable job of reflecting the preferences of his constituents. They aren't very interested in the city; they don't care about things like mass transit; they want to try to keep their taxes low by having as much development as possible, regardless of sprawl; they support vigorous law enforcement and don't like crime or people who commit crimes.

Combine that with a county that has been reasonably functional and prosperous, and what's not to like? It isn't as if he has been trying to get the people of Oakland County to do anything they aren't already inclined to do. If and when county residents feel less prosperous, or decide these policies worked less well than they had thought, perhaps they will like him less. Or not, as he didn't really take them anywhere they weren't going anyway.

[noggin]

If you compare Oakland with Wayne County you would have to come to the conclusion Oakland is much better managed. Oakland's government charges less for many services, are more available online, and administer with fewer workers. They also have gone with a multiyear budget to enable to plan much farther ahead against economic downturns.

[R8RBOB]

Orville might have well become the uber-mayor of Michigania or whatever they might have called the lash up.

Coleman might well have ended up as a back-bencher on the fifty man city council.

Question of the day...

Who was the biggest racist? Orville Hubbard or Coleman Young

You didn't get was I was referring to when I mentioned Orville Hubbard. Hubbard was a racist to the day he died. If Young was a racist and a bully then Orville Hubbard gave him the playbook on how to be a racist and a bully.

[Novine]

"They also have gone with a multiyear budget to enable to plan much farther ahead against economic downturns."

Another of Patterson's myths. Has anyone gone back and looked at the budget projections for most of the past budgets? Most of them missed their marks and the budgets required mid-year cuts and layoffs to keep them balanced. The budgets were only as good as the projections and most of them weren't very good when it came to forecasting the future. Only in the past year or two have those budgets accurately reflected what's going on in the world.

"Combine that with a county that has been reasonably functional and prosperous, and what's not to like?"

What's not to like is that instead of leading the County down a path that would have helped it whether the economic storm we're in, he took a route that's left much of the County floundering. A leader would have told residents that the County couldn't rely on sprawl and reject transit and develop in an unsustainable way as it did during his tenure. But Patterson isn't a leader so we're in the position we're in instead of holding our own.

[Meddle]

Like I said, I don't ever remember Patterson being liked. Scoffed at, ridiculed, laughed at maybe. Liked? Don't think so. That was back when he was prosecutor though.

The Wiki certainly doesn't paint him as well liked either.

[jgavrile]

The roads in Oakland County suck! Take Haagerty Rd for example ? How many decades will it take to widen that damm road? Its been to narrow for the past 30 years. Opening M-5 has not helped that road much. Should have been widened to 5 lanes, back 30 years ago. That is just one of many. Its like they turned a blind eye to the increase in population and traffic.

[Hermod]

Question of the day...

Who was the biggest racist? Orville Hubbard or Coleman Young

You didn't get was I was referring to when I mentioned Orville Hubbard. Hubbard was a racist to the day he died. If Young was a racist and a bully then Orville Hubbard gave him the playbook on how to be a racist and a bully.

Back in the day, most of the residents of Dearborn loved Orville Hubbard. Dearborn was a smooth-running city that was excellent at delivering government services. The folks just kept re-electing him year after year. Of course, it is easy to run a first class city when the Ford corporation's property taxes make up a huge percentage of your city budget.

[mwilbert]

What's not to like is that instead of leading the County down a path that would have helped it whether the economic storm we're in, he took a route that's left much of the County floundering. A leader would have told residents that the County couldn't rely on sprawl and reject transit and develop in an unsustainable way as it did during his tenure. But Patterson isn't a leader so we're in the position we're in instead of holding our own.

Exactly my point. He is liked because he didn't make people feel they had to do anything they didn't want to do. People are generally shortsighted.

[R8RBOB]

Back in the day, most of the residents of Dearborn loved Orville Hubbard. Dearborn was a smooth-running city that was excellent at delivering government services. The folks just kept re-electing him year after year. Of course, it is easy to run a first class city when the Ford corporation's property taxes make up a huge percentage of your city budget.

Hmm,,,,,reading your statement reeks of double standard. "Smooth-running city" sounds like an oxymoron. When in you lifetime have you known any branch of government being smooth-running? As for the folks reelecting him well I suppose you could say the same about the citizens of Detroit reelecting Coleman Young, but we know why the citizens of Dearborn kept reelecting Hubbard. He promised to "keep Dearborn CLEAN" and with his Gestapo shaking down the "DIRT" he meant it.

BTW......I noticed you slyly didn't answer the question. Since you are older than I am and you were expose to both men in their prime then you can answer the question.

[mjs]

In a representative democracy, that's exactly what an elected official is supposed to do. An elected official's job isn't to force his constituency to do what that government official thinks is best for them. What arrogance to think he knows better than the majority of his constituents!

In a country where taxpayers are told their opinions on bailouts and Obamacare mean less than nothing, its refreshing to see a politician that understand he serves the public rather than the public serving his vision of how things should be.

[mjs]

[quote=R8RBOB;171027]When in you lifetime have you known any branch of government being smooth-running?[quote]

Every local government I've been a constituent of. I grew up in Oakland County which is why I don't get the Patterson bashing. What services do you believe Oakland County residents are being short changed on? Roads aren't perfect, but thats the cost of being somewhere popular. I move through most of Oakland County faster than I move through most of Wayne County and the one who opposes putting road money into the newly developing areas is the Governor who came from Wayne County. If Patterson were Governor, I'm sure Oakland County would get many more expansion projects and they'd get done much quicker.

Often thought of moving to Detroit, but never did because I don't believe I could deal with how the government performs. If there's a light out on my street, I want it working in a few days. If someone is ripping siding off the neighbor's house, I want cops there in a few minutes. Once the criminal is caught, I want him to feel the system treated him so harshly and so unfairly that he had to quit his job as a criminal.

[English]

I move through most of Oakland County faster than I move through most of Wayne County and the one who opposes putting road money into the newly developing areas is the Governor who came from Wayne County.

Speaking as someone who's had to drive all over Wayne, Washtenaw, Oakland, Livingston, and Ingham counties for my job over the past four years, the bolded isn't even remotely true.

[mjs]

Speaking as someone who's had to drive all over Wayne, Washtenaw, Oakland, Livingston, and Ingham counties for my job over the past four years, the bolded isn't even remotely true.

I don't see how driving in Washtenaw, Livingston, and Ingham Counties makes you any wiser on traffic in Wayne an Oakland Counties. You obviously travel in the Southeast areas of Oakland County. Yes, traffic near Woodward, Telegraph, and I-75 in Troy and Royal Oak are as bad as similar areas are in Taylor, Dearborn Heights, and Hamtramack, but what about the other 2/3 of the county in areas like Highland, Holly, and Independance? Nearly all of Wayne County has city water and sewage while only part of Oakland County does and water and sewage slows development way before roads do. Most of Oakland County has five to ten mile gaps between the lights. Just look at a map and compare parkland or look at a satellite view and compare greenspace. People don't say they're moving to Wayne County to move outside of the suburbs.

[Meddle]

I grew up in Oakland County which is why I don't get the Patterson bashing.

Sorry, but you're giving credit where credit isn't due. OC's heyday was long before LBP had anything to do with it. He was just a weasel prosecutor when OC was growing up and becoming affluent.

Hubbard had his problems in many ways. Some of the surrounding communities really didn't want anything to do with him. But he was fair in his distrust of all outsiders. No matter your race, if you didn't own property there, he didn't want you there. Most city owned parks and facilities were for residents ONLY. The ones that allowed outsiders charged for the privilege. Even Greenfield Village had two different admission rates. No non-residents got in Camp Dearborn in Milford without a resident escort for years although that loosened up later on.

There was a major divide between affluent west Dearborn and working class east Dearborn. They were like two different worlds and when the Arabic community started to grow, he wasn't too wild about it, but at least they paid taxes.

Hubbard was a jerk in a lot of ways, but he kept the city running very well.

[Detroit Stylin]

Sorry, but you're giving credit where credit isn't due. OC's heyday was long before LBP had anything to do with it. He was just a weasel prosecutor when OC was growing up and becoming affluent.

Hubbard had his problems in many ways. Some of the surrounding communities really didn't want anything to do with him. But he was fair in his distrust of all outsiders. No matter your race, if you didn't own property there, he didn't want you there. Most city owned parks and facilities were for residents ONLY. The ones that allowed outsiders charged for the privilege. Even Greenfield Village had two different admission rates. No non-residents got in Camp Dearborn in Milford without a resident escort for years although that loosened up later on.

There was a major divide between affluent west Dearborn and working class east Dearborn. They were like two different worlds and when the Arabic community started to grow, he wasn't too wild about it, but at least they paid taxes.

Hubbard was a jerk in a lot of ways, but he kept the city running very well.

IOW.....be a racist that can impact the lives of entire groups of people who don't look like you, but as long as you can provide efficient services to your constituents, then history will look favorably upon you....

[Meddle]

Traffic in OC was always a mess. I hated going there. Telegraph from 11 Mile North was to be avoided if at all possible. Maple, Orchard Lake, Haggerty and most of the mile roads would have traffic standing still even in non-busy times. I-75 was just flat out dangerous from 8 Mile to Square Lake and beyond. It would take me longer some days to get from I-75 and Maple to John R and Maple than it did to get from Redford to I-75 across 8 Mile. And don't even get me started on the Greenfield and 9 Mile area.

[Meddle]

.be a racist that can impact the lives of entire groups of people who don't look like you, but as long as you can provode efficient services to your constituents, then history will look favorably upon you....

True to an extent, but like I said, he didn't care if you looked like him or not; if you didn't own property there, you were second class. You could be the Grand Dragon himself, but if you were an outsider, he'd crap on you.


You won't find it in any of the published accounts, but as I recall, he wasn't any too wild about calling Detroit Fire in to assist on the Rotunda fire.

[Detroit Stylin]

True to an extent, but like I said, he didn't care if you looked like him or not; if you didn't own property there, you were second class. You could be the Grand Dragon himself, but if you were an outsider, he'd crap on you.

I have an extremely hard time believing the latter...

[English]

I don't see how driving in Washtenaw, Livingston, and Ingham Counties makes you any wiser on traffic in Wayne an Oakland Counties. You obviously travel in the Southeast areas of Oakland County.

Why did you assume that when I wrote "all over," I meant SE Oakland County? Traffic is less than optimal in the exurbs and in more rural areas during rush hours, especially when schools are getting out. Many of the areas that you mention have narrower roads which definitely get clogged in the morning and evening. There is also less reliable road servicing depending on the weather. Trust me, I have been caught in bad weather outside of "SE Oakland County" in my subcompact and it is not fun.

Yes, traffic near Woodward, Telegraph, and I-75 in Troy and Royal Oak are as bad as similar areas are in Taylor, Dearborn Heights, and Hamtramack, but what about the other 2/3 of the county in areas like Highland, Holly, and Independance? Nearly all of Wayne County has city water and sewage while only part of Oakland County does and water and sewage slows development way before roads do. Most of Oakland County has five to ten mile gaps between the lights. Just look at a map and compare parkland or look at a satellite view and compare greenspace. People don't say they're moving to Wayne County to move outside of the suburbs.

You're comparing rural and exurban areas to urban and suburban; parkland to developed areas. And traffic in Troy and Royal Oak is absolutely not comparable to traffic in Dearborn Heights or Hamtramck [[haven't been to Taylor in over a year, so I won't give an opinion about that).

Why don't we just say this... your experience has been your experience, and that's fine. My experiences don't lead me to believe that Oakland County is easier to travel through. Plain and simple.

[Meddle]

And I haven't been there in 10 years, but OC was about the worst place to drive for me, just about tied with Macomb. You'd get into heavy traffic even on the outlying rural roads, and there was no place to pass. You just dragged along in a line of 20-30 cars. If somebody wanted to turn left, you might as well put it in park and shut it off for a while.

[R8RBOB]

Sorry, but you're giving credit where credit isn't due. OC's heyday was long before LBP had anything to do with it. He was just a weasel prosecutor when OC was growing up and becoming affluent.

Hubbard had his problems in many ways. Some of the surrounding communities really didn't want anything to do with him. But he was fair in his distrust of all outsiders. No matter your race, if you didn't own property there, he didn't want you there. Most city owned parks and facilities were for residents ONLY. The ones that allowed outsiders charged for the privilege. Even Greenfield Village had two different admission rates. No non-residents got in Camp Dearborn in Milford without a resident escort for years although that loosened up later on.

There was a major divide between affluent west Dearborn and working class east Dearborn. They were like two different worlds and when the Arabic community started to grow, he wasn't too wild about it, but at least they paid taxes.

Hubbard was a jerk in a lot of ways, but he kept the city running very well.

But he was a racist, yes?

[313WX]

And I haven't been there in 10 years, but OC was about the worst place to drive for me, just about tied with Macomb. You'd get into heavy traffic even on the outlying rural roads, and there was no place to pass. You just dragged along in a line of 20-30 cars. If somebody wanted to turn left, you might as well put it in park and shut it off for a while.

I agree, especially dring rush hour.

But it's all in population density [[and that's where majority of Detroit's population base is now). The out skirts of Detroit [[along the 7 Mile corridor, for example) are the same way during the weekdays, but streets such as Chene & Mack were just as congested during Detroit's peak.

[Hermod]

I agree, especially dring rush hour.

But it's all in population density [[and that's where majority of Detroit's population base is now). The out skirts of Detroit [[along the 7 Mile corridor, for example) are the same way during the weekdays, but streets such as Chene & Mack were just as congested during Detroit's peak.

There is a difference between the roads being too crowded and the roads being maintained. Back in the 1950s, you could tell the difference when you were driving east on a mile road and went from Oakland County to Macomb County. The Oakland County roads [[even the dirt and gravel roads) were better maintained.

As the counties became more populated, the roads became more congested, but Oakland County roads had the potholes and frost heaves fixed more quickly.

[Bobl]

My quick answer to the question is: Beats me. I always thought he was a drunk curmudgeon.