What Direction is Detroit Heading?

**Searay215** · July-27-10, 07:53 AM

You mean someone cares? Just kidding....I would love to see it go up, but that is a tough job and will take more years than I have to live.

**kryptonite** · July-27-10, 09:46 AM

My 2c says Detroit is improving. I have loved this place all my life and I sense a huge improvement in attitudes about the city. Look at the huge crowds Downtown on weekends, and not only in the summer. Downtown/Midtown will drive any recovery. SW Detroit may also recover some, much because of influence by Corktown and Woodbridge and SW's funky hard-*ss artsy elements.

The college age demographic finds Detroit trendy thanks much to Kid Rock, Eminem, White Stripes, etc. Not just locals either, young people around the world have a funky/hip view of Detroit as a mecca for rockers, etc.

It will be a long time in the making and it will be a good while before Detroit's great residential neighborhoods benefit. But to me the worst is past us.

**Detroitnerd** · July-27-10, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Ravine

Answer: Straight Down.

The city is being run-- directly, face-first into the ground-- by a pack of wretched incompetents & criminals, and most of the populace is too busy watching TV and deciding [[based on their dreams and grand-babies' birthdays) which lottery numbers to play to bother with voting. Of the relatively few who vote, a large percentage cast their votes based on cheesy reasons such as name-recognition and-- go ahead, tell me it ain't so-- the belief that the candidate is a Person of Faith [[whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.)
Far too many of us [[of course, this next comment is true of folks all across the globe) believe that "they" are supposed to be doing something about our horrendous condition.

Tell it like it is, pops.

**kryptonite** · July-27-10, 10:12 AM

I have to agree, Detroit's politicians are a sorry, power mad, often stupid, malevolent and incompetent bunch. But maybe the new city council offers a bit of hope, we'll see.

My guess is Detroit's improvement will have to happen independently of local politicians - it will happen because of business leaders, small businesses, immigrants, citizens and some churches.

**bailey** · July-27-10, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by kryptonite

My 2c says Detroit is improving. I have loved this place all my life and I sense a huge improvement in attitudes about the city. Look at the huge crowds Downtown on weekends, and not only in the summer. Downtown/Midtown will drive any recovery. SW Detroit may also recover some, much because of influence by Corktown and Woodbridge and SW's funky hard-*ss artsy elements.

The college age demographic finds Detroit trendy thanks much to Kid Rock, Eminem, White Stripes, etc. Not just locals either, young people around the world have a funky/hip view of Detroit as a mecca for rockers, etc.

It will be a long time in the making and it will be a good while before Detroit's great residential neighborhoods benefit. But to me the worst is past us.

Which is to say they think a guy from Romeo [[who has never lived in Detroit) , a guy from Warren [[ who also never lived in Detroit) and some people who did live in Detroit once, however left as soon as they really became successful, are cool and have somehow made Detroit "cool"?

But you're right. it is viewed as a mecca....as evidenced by Movement every year. And like Mecca it's a place many visit, but few move to.

**Detroitej72** · July-27-10, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

a guy from Warren [[ who also never lived in Detroit) and some people who did live in Detroit once, however left as soon as they really became successful, are cool and have somehow made Detroit "cool"?

Better check your sources. Marshall did indeed live in Detroit at a couple locations, and Meg White still lives in Indian Village.

And to answer the question: "What direction is Detroit heading?", forward.

Ravine · July-27-10, 11:38 AM

If a person stumbles at the top of a stair-case and pitches, head-first, down the steps, I suppose we could say that the body is moving forward.
Other than that angle, I don't see your "forward."
Among the throng of folks hanging around the DPS meeting, this morning, I wonder how many actually work for a living.

**sumas** · July-27-10, 11:50 AM

Welcome brushstart. Happy you choose Detroit for your residency. Really can't say which direction we are headed. Mostly just want to commend the many many community advocates that don't wait for city hall to show a few brains.

I've lived in Detroit for more than 1/2 a century. Seen the ups and downs but mostly I feel pretty optimistic.

**agirlintheD** · July-27-10, 12:02 PM

Hmmmm....perhaps if we continue to shine the light on the cockroaches that is the past [[present?) council/administration/government/school board/etc. we might stand a chance at steering this presently rudderless vessel....one can hope [[and pray like hell). Otherwise, we're screwed.

**5thSFGP** · July-27-10, 12:58 PM

One only needs to drive around the neighborhoods to get a feel for the direction Detroit is moving. The truth is that it's not moving at all except down. The infrastructure is shot, the tax base has left, and the only thing left is for the last guy to turn off the lights. Progress made downtown does not spread outward into the neighborhoods - as it normally would, because there's nothing to move to except vacant lots, burned out and boarded houses interrupted by a few who struggle to stay. 40 years of crime, bad decisions, even worse elections, have taken a terrible toll on Detroit. I don't see a light at the end of the tunnel - if there was it would probably be a train.

**bailey** · July-27-10, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by 5thSFGP

One only needs to drive around the neighborhoods to get a feel for the direction Detroit is moving. The truth is that it's not moving at all except down. The infrastructure is shot, the tax base has left, and the only thing left is for the last guy to turn off the lights. Progress made downtown does not spread outward into the neighborhoods - as it normally would, because there's nothing to move to except vacant lots, burned out and boarded houses interrupted by a few who struggle to stay. 40 years of crime, bad decisions, even worse elections, have taken a terrible toll on Detroit. I don't see a light at the end of the tunnel - if there was it would probably be a train.

It couldn't be a train. L. Brooks Patterson hates mass transit in all its forms, he would not let any tunnels to be built for them in Detroit.

**eno** · July-27-10, 01:18 PM

Detroit hasn't hit bottom yet. Until it starts gaining population as a sign that "life is worthwhile in Detroit" will we see a reversal of Detroit's decline. The twin towers of Detroit are ignorance and apathy. Too many people don't know and don't care how to live a responsible life as good citizens.

**BrushStart** · July-27-10, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by 5thSFGP

Progress made downtown does not spread outward into the neighborhoods - as it normally would, because there's nothing to move to except vacant lots, burned out and boarded houses interrupted by a few who struggle to stay.

I think the opposite is true. Detroit is not going to change by having neighborhoods that can compete with the suburbs. The suburbs have mastered that game, and it will be almost impossible for Detroit to win at it.

Detroit has to play its strongest suits, those being, downtown, midtown, new center, and the riverfront. Face it, outside of Ann Arbor, Detroit is the only actual "city" in this part of the region. The suburbs cannot attract new businesses because companies are not looking to relocate to a generic office park in suburbia anymore. Being located downtown is a status symbol for businesses, which is why they headquarter in expensive places like Chicago and NYC. Fix downtown and the Woodward corridor and people like Dan Gilbert will continue to come. Detroit needs fresh faces with deep pockets. Attracting people to Detroit's crumbling neighborhoods with cheap real estate is important, but it is far less important than a company moving 2,000 employess downtown.

**casscorridor** · July-27-10, 02:30 PM

The redevelopment will indeed happen from the inside out, not reverse. That data used by Troy-based Kresge and others might suggest otherwise-- that the revival will happen from the outer neighborhoods and move in. They think this because that is where the tax base is, that is where most of the people with money live, that that is where redeveloment will occur.

But if a suburban house and lawn and car is what one desires, why choose Detroit when there are places that are physically similar but without the urban problems, like Ferndale or Royal Oak? Beyond being committed to living in the city, or cost of housing, there isn't much reason. And as we have seen, once someone is able to move out, they do. The outer neighborhoods are in decline, some of them rapidly declining like the area around 7 Mile east of Woodward [[see Robinwood Street).

I think the situation in the neighborhoods around Downtown is much much different [[over all) people are moving in, not out. Businesses are opening, not closing. Houses and buildings are slowly being fixed up, not slowly deteriorating. Buildings are being renovated, not going abandoned. New develoments are sprouting up, and there is a renewed interest in urban life.

As others have mentioned, the core neighborhoods are Downtown, Midtown, New Center, Corktown, Woodbridge, Eastern Market and Rivertown. All the makings of a vibrant major city are here. All that is needed is to connect the dots. The rail on Woodward will be the beginning of that connectivity, hopefully it will be expanded with a new line on Jefferson, which is second to Woodward in terms of urban potential, and traditionally the city extended along the river. From these neighborhoods, the vibrant urban area can expand. The more new residents, the more potential new residents. It builds on each other. The more retail stores, the more potential retail stores. Why? Because urban areas work because of density and access to transit. Suburban areas work because of easy parking and wide roads. Detroit can have both [[seeing that everything post-1915 is essentially suburban), but only one mode will work in the central city, and that is the urban mode.

**kryptonite** · July-27-10, 02:51 PM

Casscorridor, I enjoyed your observations.

The attitude about Downtown/Midtown is so different from 30 years ago. In the early 80's you strictly went from your car to wherever you were going, you did not walk around if you were smart. Downtown was deserted on the weekends except for the RenCen and for Hart Plaza during the ethnic festivals.

That all changed, in my opinion the casinos and two new stadiums were essential in creating an atmosphere that encourages people on foot. Now Downtown is packed most weekends. Eastern Market in the early 80's was busy, but one had no trouble finding plenty of parking, nowadays it is mobbed. Plus 30 years ago the 'redevelopment' of the riverfront meant Hart Plaza and nothing else. Over the years the riverfront has changed for the better.

There are many reasons that I personally feel that at least Detroit's core areas are reviving. The neighborhoods are still suffering very much. Maybe better things are in store? The enormous change in city council after the last election and Detroiters' response to Kwame/Beatty, etc. seems to encourage me at least that maybe in the future they will give some thought to skilled politicians with the city's best interests in mind. It's encouraging that Carolyn Cheeks-Kilpatrick is fighting to retain her seat and not just have it handed to her as a legacy.

DetroitDad · July-27-10, 06:33 PM

An individuals who think that their better life must be found and not created is going to have constant problems.

**tallboy66** · July-27-10, 06:52 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-3Iq3XQkAw

**Alex Martin** · July-27-10, 10:21 PM

It will gradually go up. Here's why: Rich people are buying up buildings and land by Masonic Temple. The people involved had to sign a "no talk" agreement. Half a billion for improvements at and around Henry Ford Hospital. Time magazine is in town at an undisclosed location. Why? Property values are at the bottom. Time to buy in low. This was all put together a while ago.

1970s - People still walking around Downtown.

1980s - A lot of businesses had moved out. Downtown looking bad. They had the Festival Marketplace in Greektown. Cops were everywhere but that didn't work out.

1990s - Not worth going downtown.

2000s - Tear down some buildings. Get things together for the big revival.

Anybody wonder why they're pushing so hard for another bridge to Canada? They gonna be sending over Government cheese? Uh uh. It's all put together now. Just need to get a few more ducks in the row.

By October it's going to be a whole different story. They broke ground in Pontiac today for a movie facility.

**WayneMan** · July-27-10, 10:53 PM

The city will get better, although, progress will be slow. It may be a good city by the end of my lifetime. [[which is a long ways away) As for now, it seems like for every step of progress in mid-town or downtown, it's two steps back for the neighborhoods.

**mikefmich** · July-27-10, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by eno

Detroit hasn't hit bottom yet. Until it starts gaining population as a sign that "life is worthwhile in Detroit" will we see a reversal of Detroit's decline. The twin towers of Detroit are ignorance and apathy. Too many people don't know and don't care how to live a responsible life as good citizens.

The year I was born Detroit peaked in population. There was a slow ebb downward for awhile.....nothing horrid.

43 summers ago changed the slow to fast. I worked in every corner of the city for 9 years 1968-1977.

So I'm saying.....I've seen many decades of this city. I don't feel there is much of a deeper bottom. If the city scratches much deeper, the bottom is gonna fall out and will be sucked into the river like a bathtub draining.

Seriously my God....how much deeper can they possible go and still exist???

If I was worth a half trillion dollars, and thought it would re-build the city I would give them 400 billion of it.

Trouble is....in terms of $$$, that is not even enough. 400 Billion might rebuild the city physically, but there is a lot more to rebuild than structures.

Massive $$....massive job infusion.....massive population return. Where is it going to come from??

I was a teenager when the city really nosedived, now I'm a grandfather. I don't expect to see it happen in my lifetime. Years ago.....I thought the city would come back in 15-20 years.

**Jason** · July-27-10, 11:05 PM

I think the city is going at two different directions at once.

On one hand, the city still has a lot of the same dysfunctionalities, services are getting worse, people are still moving out, etc.

But on the other hand, the region's attitude towards Detroit is changing. More people are going to Detroit for events, and even for business. More people are saying "there are nice parts of Detroit". I think in a way Detroit has opened up, and has gotten more people involved.

So I'd say that the greater downtown area is improving in general. The average Detroit neighborhood is getting worse.

I wonder what direction other neighborhoods are going though. How's Indian Village or Palmer Woods/university district?

DetroitDad · July-27-10, 11:07 PM

You guys really believe it's a matter of luck?

**mikefmich** · July-27-10, 11:42 PM

Where is luck? I don't recollect seeing luck mentioned. What did I miss?

**carlscomputers** · July-28-10, 01:05 AM

I myself refuse to give up on this town! It's hard to be optimistic when whole neighborhoods have 5 to 10 occupied houses out of 20, & some of them are squatters. I think back to the 60's when I was a kid, going downtown was a joy. Lot's of people, lot's of things to see & do. I've worked in my city for the City for the last 26 years & I must admit, it has gone down. There are still signs of life downtown, a few clubs, stadiums, meeting places, etc., but nothing like it used to be. I always ask myself WHY? Why can't Detroit be a true World Class City? We are an International Border City, We are a Ethnically diverse city, We are a geographically large city. So once again I ask WHY? I don't have the answer, just a bunch of dreams & ideas about a better Detroit! There are a lot of good ideas here on this "Great Forum On All Things Detroit", I wonder if the "powers that be" are reading/listening? So, what direction do I think Detroit is going? That depends on US!

**Susan Messer** · July-28-10, 08:37 AM

Very interesting discussion--can't help noticing the range of opinions. I have to say it reminds me of this paragraph, from the last page of my novel Grand River and Joy.

These are the thoughts of the main character--Harry Levine--in the mid-80s in Detroit. I know it's not a pragmatic answer to the question being posed, but it's a novelistic one.

Everywhere he looked, he saw various stages of repair and decay. The world was served up as a spectrum from marvelous to ravaged, with an infinite number of way stops and combinations. People’s bodies, a building, roads, a house, cars, even car parts [[mufflers, radiators, tires), items in his own refrigerator [[a piece of apple pie left too long, a hunk of cheese), tree stumps, relationships. You couldn’t say that anything was just one way [[decaying or rebuilding, on the upswing or the down, dying or surviving). It all depended on the moment, and on where you looked. It was a matter of proportion. He’d see a detail on the crown of a building, marvelous, left over from its glory days in the 20s, while at street level, a sloppy hand-painted sign or heavy metal grate, even barbed wire, covered its face. Or something could look beautiful on the outside—a woman, a tree—and inside, there was sickness, something growing that was also destroying. This was what he had come to understand about the world.