LIGHT RAIL UPDATE: Ray LaHood to announce federal commitment

**Gistok** · August-02-10, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by BShea

As I said, there was a lot more to this story ...

The system that would run from Hart Plaza to the city limits at Eight Mile Road is expected to be operating by 2016, said Bob Berg, partner and vice president at Detroit-based Berg Muirhead and Associates, which does media relations work for the city.

Good lord is this the same Bob Berg who was Coleman Young's press secretary, and later as a city consultant "outted" one of the Detroit Police Department whistleblower... Nelthrope I believe....

If so, talk about keeping your snout in the government trough....

**detroitbob** · August-02-10, 02:26 AM

Chicago wants to extend the southside "el" but there is no $$$ and the projection as I read it is 10 years.
As for the downtown to New Center line in Detroit, the electric lines are arms extended off the current street lights, so I don't know what the earlier arguement about "pole after pole" refers to. Same streetlights...

bartock · August-02-10, 09:27 AM

What timing. So...LaHood, Bing, and others are supposed to have a press conference today regarding the environmental study and "clearing hurdles," according to the Detroit News. So I suspect CCK will be there as well...

**professorscott** · August-02-10, 12:09 PM

Rep. Kilpatrick was there and a host of others: the Governor, Senator Stabenow, and on and on, I can't possibly list them all without leaving somebody out so I won't try. Of course Rep. Donigan was there, I happened to catch Andy Dillon [[but no other Gov-wannabe), several of the M1 Rail folks.

The storyboards showed possible station locations and three options for a downtown alignment [[one staying on Woodward, two veering off to Washington Blvd). With the information from the public hearings and the EIS, all of those details will change and then firm up.

Also, since this has come up in various threads here on DY a number of times, the storyboards indicate median running from State Fair to north of Grand Blvd., then possible curbside running or possible median running from there south. But again, that's an engineering detail to some extent, not likely to be completely firmed up until later.

The actual press conference, as you'd imagine, was a transit lovefest without very much useful content; all the basic info is on the Detroit News website. But it's good to see all those folks in the same place agreeing that this is something that needs to happen.

I'm still seeing people saying "phase 1 to Grand Blvd. and phase 2 to Eight Mile", but from what was said at the DIA it seems that's no longer the thinking; the impression I got is that the people involved, and Mayor Bing in particular, want this to be done all in one shot.

**detmsp** · August-02-10, 01:15 PM

Is the possibility of truely combining the M1 Rail and DTOGS plan off the table? [[and by that I mean having one system that runs from Hart Plaza to 8 Mile with no need to switch trains)

**professorscott** · August-02-10, 01:33 PM

I got the strong impression from today's meeting that it is going to be one system. Even if not everyone agrees with that right now, after going through the Federal process it's almost certain to be a single system.

**esp1986** · August-02-10, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by professorscott

I got the strong impression from today's meeting that it is going to be one system. Even if not everyone agrees with that right now, after going through the Federal process it's almost certain to be a single system.

I truely believe you are correct... the Feds have been pushing the 'cooperation' aspect of the whole thing, and with that they seem to want everyone working together in order to get the federal dollars, and with that one can only be led to believe that with everyone working together, the result will be one cohesive system.

**Whitehouse** · August-02-10, 04:11 PM

I like the Luas light rail in Dublin. Ireland. Look at how this lightrail is meandering through the streets. There are loads of Youtube clips around.

**mikeg19** · August-02-10, 04:56 PM

I'm sorry. I'm not an environmental guru, but what the hell takes 12-18 months to determine? Why does it seem that projects around here take twice as long to complete than anywhere else? Light rail in 2016? I'll be gone by then. Maybe I should come back in thirty years and they will have the line up and running.

**Russix** · August-02-10, 05:05 PM

LOOK AT THE MAP!!! http://www.freep.com/article/2010080...ight-rail-line
Check out the stations!!!!!!

And also, what the hell happened to the Environmental Impact Study that was suppose to be completed at the end of last year?????
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...FREE/908179982#

**mwilbert** · August-02-10, 05:15 PM

Have to agree with professorscott. Although Detroit may have some uniquely dysfunctional aspects, in this case six years is a normal amount of time. Check out LRT projects in some other D's, like Dallas and Denver. What was not normal was how much time passed between the People Mover and thinking seriously about some better transit.

**Parkguy** · August-02-10, 05:19 PM

I was at the press conference, too. I think the whole tone was upbeat and positive.

Environmental Impact: the federal government has a set procedure for these studies. The long time frame has less to do with gathering scientific data, and more to do with scheduled hearings and public meetings with set amounts of time in between. Also, public announcements about the dates and locations of the meetings have to be legally posted ahead of time. I've dealt with the FCC many times in the past, and they have very specific requirements for their procedures. I'm sure the same is the case with the Dept. of Transportation. In the case of the FCC, even relatively routine matters will have two or three steps separated by 30 or 60 days.

**stasu1213** · August-02-10, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by English

Yep, and once upon a time, some of us voted Archer in, too.

I think Archer was the best mayor for Detroit. I was sad when he had announced that he wasn't seeking another term. This city would had been far ahead of what it is now.

**Gsgeorge** · August-02-10, 06:49 PM

Here are the full reports from Freep & DetNews.

http://www.freep.com/article/2010080...ight-rail-line

http://www.detnews.com/article/20100...t-rail-project

**Baselinepunk** · August-02-10, 06:58 PM

I think that with the amount of contributing historical structures along the route there would be a fair amount of section 106 reviews as well.

**Parkguy** · August-02-10, 08:41 PM

The original "private" part of the system is going ahead as scheduled... meaning that construction should start next year, with about a two year build-out. This will have mostly curb-lane tracks, with some median tracks. The "extended" route, as the Free Press calls it, falls under this new study, with mostly median tracks. That section will be built all at once, rather than short segments at a time. Or at least, that's the implication.

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**3rdDegreeBurns** · August-02-10, 10:25 PM

Wow, a pretty happy day for Detroit transit! I can't wait to ride this train. I also can't imagine that Oakland County will do anything but DEMAND to have this line extended at least as far North as Royal Oak, hopefully to Birmingham or Pontiac.

Does anyone know if they are reducing the number of stops between Hart Plaza and Grand Blvd? I know this was a big point of contention for a lot of people on the forum in the past. It seems to me that if the FTA is handing the reigns over to DDOT [[and the funding) that we will see significantly fewer stops between Downtown and New Center. I generally like the layouts that take the train down Washington Blvd. and circulate up and down Congress and Larned. This would result in 9-10 stops for the first phase but with 6 of those being downtown. I think that type of configuration make a lot of sense and would satisfy those who have been concerned about the high number of stops originally proposed by M1.

**Russix** · August-03-10, 12:43 AM

^^Well this looks like the old DTOGS map relabeled "Woodward M1-Rail"

After reading the official press release and reading some comments from those who attended I've concluded that much of the details regarding the final design are still not final.

**Gsgeorge** · August-03-10, 02:43 AM

Originally Posted by Russix

^^Well this looks like the old DTOGS map relabeled "Woodward M1-Rail"

After reading the official press release and reading some comments from those who attended I've concluded that much of the details regarding the final design are still not final.

Agreed. But I am confident the line will probably be borne out as the more pedestrian-oriented "modern streetcar" south of the Boulevard, with the more frequent M1 stops, and north of the Boulevard as the original DTOGS alignment, center lane, less frequent stops.

**Gsgeorge** · August-03-10, 02:46 AM

A great article from Model D that really sums up the newest developments...

http://www.modeldmedia.com/features/...ail080210.aspx

The key part is this:

The Obama Administration sent U.S. Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood to the city Monday [[Aug. 2) morning to deliver the good news: 9.3 miles of Woodward Avenue Light Rail, from the Detroit River to 8 Mile Road, will be shepherded through the system as one single project.

This means, for the first time, private funding -- in this case, $125 million in funds raised for the M1 Rail Line that was to stretch 3.4 miles from the Detroit River to New Center -- is being leveraged as matching funds for a federal transit project.

And then there is this....

She [Megan Owens of Transportation Riders United] hopes the next, slightly unrelated transit step for the area is the creation of a regional transit authority so the project can continue north into the suburbs as a part of a broader regional system. "People are asking, 'Why is this stopping at Eight Mile?' " she says. "But we don't currently have a regional agency that can manage the project if it goes beyond, goes outside of Detroit."

**Whitehouse** · August-03-10, 09:04 AM

That Campus Martius loop, is that one or the other, or is a complete loop an option? And what is that light blue line?

I think this will be a speedy entrance to Downtown coming from the north. A streetcar always has the right of way, at least over here in the Netherlands. And it's also a safe way to travel. Not only from a riding perspective but also cause of the use of safety cameras.

When construction commences I expect a "tour" on this site with lots of pictures of the progress. I wonder what they will find along the way from an archeological perspective. Lots of remnants of the old streetcar system I expect.

**esp1986** · August-03-10, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by Whitehouse

That Campus Martius loop, is that one or the other, or is a complete loop an option? And what is that light blue line?

I think this will be a speedy entrance to Downtown coming from the north. A streetcar always has the right of way, at least over here in the Netherlands. And it's also a safe way to travel. Not only from a riding perspective but also cause of the use of safety cameras.

When construction commences I expect a "tour" on this site with lots of pictures of the progress. I wonder what they will find along the way from an archeological perspective. Lots of remnants of the old streetcar system I expect.

Those are alternative routes for the line to take. Tha Campus Martius loop is only going around the park which is surrounded by a one way loop, so it will come in one way on go out the other. The light blue line is an alternative which heads through Capitol Park and down Washington Boulevard then through the Central Business District.

From an economic development standpoint, I think the Washington Boulevard alternative is preferred, as the line would provide exposure to the desolate Capitol Park and some derelict buildings on Washington, like the Book Building and Tower, among others. However, the loop through the CBD is a waste of time in my opinion, with only a block separating the line. Campus Martius is fairly well developed, compared to Capitol Park and Washington Boulevard, so skipping it on the line wouldn't hurt too much.

However, I truely believe that the Campus Martius loop option is the best, as we are trying to make this a speedy and efficient system. The most anyone would have to walk from Woodward would be three blocks... honestly, if it's really that bad, take the people mover. And besides, if the system continues to come to fruition, the plan is for a line heading out Michigan Avenue, meaning that it will likely have to cross Washington Boulevard, thereby negating a great need there.

Campus Martius is at the center of downtown, and having the line run through there would be a big boost. Perhaps eliminating the vacancy at the Monroe Block. Obviously time will tell if it will all come to fruition, but I think we need to start in the middle and work our way out, and all of the spots will likely be covered from there.

**French777** · August-03-10, 09:55 AM

Too bad there isn't an option to come down Washington Blvd and make its way back up through Campus Martius.

**R8RBOB** · August-03-10, 10:01 AM

So which makes sense: a ground-level rail system or an elevated setup like the People Mover?

**dtowncitylover** · August-03-10, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

So which makes sense: a ground-level rail system or an elevated setup like the People Mover?

Elevated is much to costly, up into the billions. Ground level system for sure!

If anyone was listening to 97.1 the Ticket yesterday afternoon, they were talking about light rail. One of the callers, most of them anti-light rail and ignorant, was talking about how someone might crash into the LRT car and destroy it. If he knew any better, he would that those cars are much, much more heavier than cars and would quickly destroy you, so please, get out of the way of the LRT. lol