Charging for Belle Isle

[Detroitej72]

Not trying to be obnoxious, but this would be a great way to piss off the union members who clean the park. It would just be seen as patent union-busting.

Ah, Nerd, now I see your tactics.

Why do your deliberately try to be obtuse on these threads?

[jt1]

Yeah, Soo much futbol and cricket going on there.

Cricket is played on the park often. Your sarcasm is off base on this one.

[DanFromDetroit]

Not very thoughtful, Dan. And if that's the attitude behind instituting a fee, expect the measure to fail.

Well of course it will fail - the probability of this measure ever succeeding is 0 - nada - none - zilch. It's political suicide by whoever proposes it. But ask yourself seriously if a toll will help the park remain clean and safe & you'll have your answer. Who cares if it's run like a metropark so long as it's treated like the gem it is. Sorry but the cricket leagues and football [[futbol) teams have to suffer but life isn't fair. I would rather that than see the island in it's current condition, which is decrepit.

[Detroitnerd]

Yeah, Soo much futbol and cricket going on there.

I know. Games twice a week with the Detroit futbol league over at the athletic field, or the dedicated groups of Caribbean folks who play cricket by the Scott statue. Or are you being sarcastic and utterly clueless?

[Detroitnerd]

Ah, Nerd, now I see your tactics.

Why do your deliberately try to be obtuse on these threads?

No tactics. It's just a true observation.

[Russix]

No need to charge an entry fee. Speed cameras on the bridge, police bike patrols to write MIP tickets and a DUI checkpoint to get off the island. Oh did I mention the community service punishment would be cleaning up the island?

[milesdriven]

No need to charge an entry fee. Speed cameras on the bridge, police bike patrols to write MIP tickets and a DUI checkpoint to get off the island. Oh did I mention the community service punishment would be cleaning up the island?

Thankfully, speed cameras and DUI checkpoints are unconstitutional in Michigan, unlike Ohio [[although I've yet to see a checkpoint here since moving almost two years ago).

[UpTown]

This topic will go around and around and nothing will change unfortunately. I went down Sunday morning to sketch along the shore overlooking the city skyline, and found used diapers, used charcoal briquets, and Subway sandwich wrappers scattered a mere 20 feet from an 1/2 full garbage can.
If a non-profit organization is setup [[one that is actually legit. I know Detroit and "non-profit" don't really mix lately) and a small fee to get on the island is ONLY used for the island, then I believe it would work out well. But since everyone wants everything for free and doesn't want to put the effort in to maintain the park, dirty diapers will be the tumbleweeds on Belle Isle.

[Gannon]

I just figured it out.

A number of police vehicles lined up just over the bridge, proportionate to the level of traffic.

ONE laser sighting vehicle directly in front of the clock at the foot of the bridge, after crossing the river from Jefferson. One officer tags each vehicle while they are crossing the bridge. Laser line-of-sight is exact. Speeders will be tagged.

He or she has an open radio line to the cars awaiting command, and they pick 'em up and issue the ticket. [[City Council will have to insure the law is such that the ticket will be valid, I've seen this in other cities, so it shouldn't be difficult.) Once the laser officer points to a vehicle to pull over...they have to, and there is no-where they can go to escape.

The SPEEDERS pay for access to the island.

I'd like to see three trailers with speed reminders on 'em, perhaps with a nice strobe for night-time annoyance. If necessary, since these can be configured as traffic-flow counters as well, they can be turned into video ticket devices with cameras.

Same detail can be available for any disturbances.

We'd get all the money the island would need in roughly two weeks. Weed out some folk who would probably cause some troubles on the opposite end. Those who drive the speed limit have unlimited free access to the island.



My bet is this will solve a good number of problems.

Cheers from the island,
John

[Gannon]

On Friday & Saturday nights, the "paddy wagon" should be parked directly next to it, too. Why not?! It has to park SOMEWHERE, right?!

[animatedmartian]

I found a dude's driver license between the beach and the pier on the north side of the island. It expired in '05 though. Look like it had been there since '05. There was a trash can by a new Kids Row Concession stand; it was full. One guy complained that the bathrooms were disgusting and he had to go over to the older toilets across the street. It was missing a few toilets but it was clean. This was the same day as the boat races, but the entire island was packed. I'm all for a charging fee if it at least helps to keep the island better maintained.

[kraig]

Howdy Yessers- I want to throw an idea out here and would love to have you all punch as many holes in it as possible.

I went for a bike ride on Belle Isle yesterday. The place was packed. Sadly, it was also trashed. Bottles, broken Styrofoam coolers, dirty diapers pitched into the streets-just a whirling symphony of garbage.

Now the clean up begins, let's hope- And all taxpayers are on the hook for the clean up.

What would be wrong with charging $5 per vehicle to enter the island? -those funds going to pay for clean up service. [[Pedestrians, bicycles and handicapped vehicles free, DYC members receive a badge)

Would charging an entry fee imply some degree of safety and or security?

Here's a question that you need to ask before charging a fee. Would charging a fee compel someone to do a job that they're already getting paid to do any better than their currently doing it?

It seems to me that there is a strong perception in the City that an additional fee is always required in order to get the City to do what they're supposed to do. So unless the fee money is going directly into the pockets of those that aren't doing their jobs properly, it's not going to make a difference anyway.

[Ray1936]

kraig, I doubt if the C of D has more than a dozen employees working to clean up Belle Isle. To do it properly would take at least fifty or sixty, given the acreage involved. Here's one instance where I can't really blame the city, but, instead, blame the slobs that inhabit the city and visit the island.

[BagAJellyDonuts]

When you compare the condition of the parks where an admission is charged versus those that do not, exactly why would anybody care to go to the free parks?

I will never forget driving the loop around the island, as I was nearing the bridge, the car in front of me took the opportunity to empty all their garbage. Some respect.

[kraig]

When you compare the condition of the parks where an admission is charged versus those that do not, exactly why would anybody care to go to the free parks?

I will never forget driving the loop around the island, as I was nearing the bridge, the car in front of me took the opportunity to empty all their garbage. Some respect.

So given your argument, that would make the City of Detroit one of the cleanest cities in the state. Seeing that we charge a trash fee on top of the highest millage rate around and a city income tax on residents and non-residents who work in the city.

Sorry, not seeing that argument.

[BagAJellyDonuts]

So given your argument, that would make the City of Detroit one of the cleanest cities in the state. Seeing that we charge a trash fee on top of the highest millage rate around and a city income tax on residents and non-residents who work in the city.

Sorry, not seeing that argument.

Yep, free concerts and movies always attract the best behaved crowds.

You wonder why people shit on Belle Isle, it's free.

[kraig]

Yep, free concerts and movies always attract the best behaved crowds.

You wonder why people shit on Belle Isle, it's free.

Again, not seeing your argument. Other cities all over the state, have free attractions such as concerts and movies. Yet they manage to keep their parks clean. Just this weekend I was at the SterlingFest in Sterling Heights. There was more trash being thrown away than the cans could hold, but they had people policing the more crowded areas and making sure that the cans were being emptied throughout the day and then made sure that everything was cleaned up afterwards.

People don't shit on Belle Isle because it's free, people shit on Belle Isle because it's free to do so. When the city has parks such as Belle Isle and Balduck where the bathrooms remain closed due to disrepair, and the City doesn't make any attempts to rectify the situation for years, that sends a clear message to the populace that clean parks are not a priority of the City.

[mwilbert]

One way you can get the money to pay for people to empty trash containers and repair bathrooms is to charge something. After a summer weekend you see all kinds of trash piled up near the trash containers because they are full, and of course if there is any wind it blows all over. There should be more containers and/or they should be emptied during the day on the weekends. There should be staff to work on all the other facilities on the island that is under-maintained, such as the comfort stations.

No doubt there are some sloppy people who visit Belle Isle, but there are sloppy people everywhere. You need to hire people to keep it clean, and if it is clean then it is at least possible that people will be more respectful. I think it is understandable that the city government thinks that perhaps its existing resources need to go somewhere else, and that is why some dedicated revenue sources seem like a good idea to me.

[kraig]

One way you can get the money to pay for people to empty trash containers and repair bathrooms is to charge something. After a summer weekend you see all kinds of trash piled up near the trash containers because they are full, and of course if there is any wind it blows all over. There should be more containers and/or they should be emptied during the day on the weekends. There should be staff to work on all the other facilities on the island that is under-maintained, such as the comfort stations.

No doubt there are some sloppy people who visit Belle Isle, but there are sloppy people everywhere. You need to hire people to keep it clean, and if it is clean then it is at least possible that people will be more respectful. I think it is understandable that the city government thinks that perhaps its existing resources need to go somewhere else, and that is why some dedicated revenue sources seem like a good idea to me.

The budget is there to keep the parks clean. One of the problems is the will of those in charge to get the job done. The maintenance workers know that having most of them work 9-5 shifts Monday thru Friday won't do enough to keep the parks clean during the evenings and on the weekends when the parks receive the bulk of its visitors. But if they're being ignored by those in charge of setting the schedules, what can they do?

Charging a fee isn't going to make anyone any smarter. And the problem right now is that those in charge are not working smart enough.

[Gannon]

I KNOW, that is why I figure my solution is overall the best.

No solid, unmovable infrastructure costs...using assets that probably already exist in the police aresenal and training [[if they DON'T have a laser speed-detection device in their stock, they are far behind the times).

Those 175 vehicles purchased with Homeland Security monies were supposed to have all the latest technology.


SO, we use it as a fund-raiser and 'filter', potentially solving a bunch of troubles on the Island.


Same team could be used to glean some serious cash from those maniacs who drive the Lodge in rush hour, too. LOL!


Cheers

[Brittz]

I was on the Isle Saturday and yes it was packed. Twice city workers changed the cans holding trash in our area. All of our trash was bagged. I hate that the restrooms are locked. They use porta johns-just awful. We need running water on the Isle. I found the place looked rather clean.

[speaknow]

I have a unique perspective of Belle Isle since I'm a retired DPD police sergeant who spent a LONG summer in 1995 temporarily assigned to the Harbormaster Section. Quite frankly, motor vehicles should be prohibited from the park. Make everyone pay a mandatory shuttle fee [[$2-$5) to get on the island. Shuttle busses would be the only means of getting on and off the island. Limit the number of coolers and prohibit all glass bottles and grilles [[this means that the Parks and Recreation Dept would actually have to service and maintain the grills on the island). No loudspeakers or DJ equipment would be allowed. Current and properly stickered DBC and DYC member vehicles would be allowed and required to park in their alloted parking spaces within the confines of their parking lots. The last shuttle bus leaving the island would be 11:00PM. if you missed it, be prepared to walk [[yes, people use to ask the police for rides off the island).

Do the above, and part of the problems on the island would be eliminated.

[mwilbert]

I really like the idea of restricting cars, but I suspect that is even less likely than charging fees.