Deconstruction at Woodward + Warren

**Danny** · October-26-10, 07:26 AM

There is going to be a new 3 story building being built on the corner of Cass and Warren Ave. next to Marwil's Book Store. just across the street from Old Central High School Building [[Old Main).

DetroitPole · October-26-10, 09:39 AM

Ah yes, the university that graduates black students at the worst rate in the nation of schools surveyed, and white students and everybody else as the worst in the state, and they're building green glass convention centers and hotels and parks and whatever the hell is purportedly going there. They should be focusing on education. Period. More professors. More class times available. Lower tuition. My education never involved a hotel or a convention center.

There are too many hotels in this town. We have a massive convention center downtown. If we get light rail, the connection will be a breeze.

Universities don't "build" urban fabric in the sense of actually physically building them for the most part. Throwing down a superblock of poorly constructed stupid shit is not urban. What is urban is what has happened in the North Corridor - thanks in part to Wayne State simply being there as a university - people and businesses have filled up existing spaces because of the viability of the area.

If they wanted to build a park they should have put it where the former Forest Apartments [[not to be confused with the Forest Arms) between Cass and Second on Forest. That building was by all accounts a Stalinist monstrosity and had to come down. So what did they do? Parking lot! Not just any parking lot - one that stretches from Second to Cass - an entire block. How urban! How vital to a 24/7 campus! Why not a parking structure and a park next to it?

So fuck you very much Wayne State. Ask for any money from me and I'll throw a brick at your stupid Welcome Center that you destroyed a block of businesses to build and it will probably fall down.

**Pcm** · October-26-10, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPole

Ah yes, the university that graduates black students at the worst rate in the nation of schools surveyed, and white students and everybody else as the worst in the state, and they're building green glass convention centers and hotels and parks and whatever the hell is purportedly going there. They should be focusing on education. Period. More professors. More class times available. Lower tuition. My education never involved a hotel or a convention center.

There are too many hotels in this town. We have a massive convention center downtown. If we get light rail, the connection will be a breeze.

Universities don't "build" urban fabric in the sense of actually physically building them for the most part. Throwing down a superblock of poorly constructed stupid shit is not urban. What is urban is what has happened in the North Corridor - thanks in part to Wayne State simply being there as a university - people and businesses have filled up existing spaces because of the viability of the area.

If they wanted to build a park they should have put it where the former Forest Apartments [[not to be confused with the Forest Arms) between Cass and Second on Forest. That building was by all accounts a Stalinist monstrosity and had to come down. So what did they do? Parking lot! Not just any parking lot - one that stretches from Second to Cass - an entire block. How urban! How vital to a 24/7 campus! Why not a parking structure and a park next to it?

So fuck you very much Wayne State. Ask for any money from me and I'll throw a brick at your stupid Welcome Center that you destroyed a block of businesses to build and it will probably fall down.

We need more people like you.

**j to the jeremy** · October-26-10, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by Pcm

We need more people like you.

Agreed. As an Urban Studies student at WSU, their development policies make me go crazy. They make no effort to hide the fact that the entire University is run as a profit-making corporation centered around parking and on-campus businesses. Any viable neighborhood buildings are seen as competition rather than part of a campus community. The graduation gap just makes these policies more obscene, since the "state of the art" new dorms and welcome center are already showing their age and poor construction.

There were so many things for them to address before they tore down the entire block at Woodward and Warren, not to mention the numerous other vacant lots they've owned for years with "plans to develop" at a later date. [[AKA leave as parking indefinitely)

**English** · October-26-10, 11:41 AM

Again, I think that development varies according to the administration that's in power. WSU's planning doesn't just come out of the blue. Presidents have priorities. Presidents matter. So the current presidential search doesn't just affect faculty, staff, and students, but all of Midtown. Stay plugged in.

**DetroitPlanner** · October-26-10, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by j to the jeremy

Agreed. As an Urban Studies student at WSU, their development policies make me go crazy. They make no effort to hide the fact that the entire University is run as a profit-making corporation centered around parking and on-campus businesses. Any viable neighborhood buildings are seen as competition rather than part of a campus community.

Be glad you are not at the U of M where they are taking most of AA's office space off the tax rolls and are turning it into a U of M super high tech office park.

**Pcm** · October-26-10, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Be glad you are not at the U of M where they are taking most of AA's office space off the tax rolls and are turning it into a U of M super high tech office park.

That doesn't sound like a bad thing at all. I can't really tell if you're being facetious or not...

**French777** · October-26-10, 04:35 PM

I walk past there everyday. WSU has constructed, what seems to be a 2-3 story stairwell on the site. I will try and post pictures later in the week.

**Pcm** · October-26-10, 04:41 PM

I heard it's a sniper tower. To guard the new parking lots and parks, ya know.

**Umbound** · October-26-10, 10:19 PM

I hope it is a hotel that meets the street/sidewalk and with a parking structure with ground-floor retail. I will take that well over some green space for Old Main. I used to be an Arch/Urban Planning major [[Hence my name UMbound cause i wanted to go their school) but as a commuter student from West Bloomfield I hope they build structure over green space. I already see enough green space in the burbs as it is and feel insulted a little even though i do not study Urban Planning anymore the school tore down those buildings. Heres hopin they build new ones.

Buildingofdetroit:
From my friend who does WSU PR:
"Current plans are for a green space/ campus park area. I heard that they would like for the whole plot of land along Warren from Woodward all the way to Cass to be a sort of 'front yard' for Old Main."

Green space is always nice, but so is urban fabric. :/

**leady106** · October-26-10, 10:46 PM

What appears to be built is an concrete block elevator shaft for the four story residential building with retail on the first floor. I would suspect that stairwells will follow shortly. Does anyone have any additional information as who is the developer and/or architect?

**DetroitPlanner** · October-27-10, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by Pcm

That doesn't sound like a bad thing at all. I can't really tell if you're being facetious or not...

Its bad if you're Ann Arbor because thats less tax revenue and increased demand. They don't have an income tax.

**Pcm** · October-27-10, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by leady106

What appears to be built is an concrete block elevator shaft for the four story residential building with retail on the first floor. I would suspect that stairwells will follow shortly. Does anyone have any additional information as who is the developer and/or architect?

And just so everyone knows, this cinderblock tower we're referring to is not at Warren and Woodward. It is at Cass and Woodward.

**casscorridor** · October-27-10, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by leady106

What appears to be built is an concrete block elevator shaft for the four story residential building with retail on the first floor. I would suspect that stairwells will follow shortly. Does anyone have any additional information as who is the developer and/or architect?

From UCCA Website:
Cass/Warren Dormitory Construction Underway
Located on Cass Avenue, between Warren and Hancock, this four story mixed-use development will offer 81 residential units geared toward student housing, as well as 6,000 sq/ft of ground floor commercial space. Most units will be one and two bedroom with a few four bedroom suites. Directly across the street from Wayne State’s Old Main, this building will offer close access to campus and local restaurants and institutions in the area.

[[note: these aren't actually dorms, and they are not a WSU project. This is a private development).

From the office of the Governor:
- City of Detroit - A five-story mixed-use commercial structure housing 10,000 square feet of retail space will rise on Cass Avenue near Warren at the heart of the Wayne State University campus in midtown Detroit, formerly a gas station site. The Detroit Brownfield Development Authority will use state and local tax capture of $429,998 to support the project which will create 64 residential suites in the upper four stories and 26 enclosed parking spaces. Total investment of $13 million is projected with 33 jobs created.

These are conflicting descriptions. The first, more recent description is 4 floors with 81 units and 6,000sq/ft of retail and the other is 5 floors with 64 units and 10,000sq/ft of retail. Is it possible that these are two different projects? Or has the plan just been modified?

**drjeff** · October-27-10, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPole

Ah yes, the university that graduates black students at the worst rate in the nation of schools surveyed, and white students and everybody else as the worst in the state, and they're building green glass convention centers and hotels and parks and whatever the hell is purportedly going there. They should be focusing on education. Period. More professors. More class times available. Lower tuition. My education never involved a hotel or a convention center.

There are too many hotels in this town. We have a massive convention center downtown. If we get light rail, the connection will be a breeze.

Universities don't "build" urban fabric in the sense of actually physically building them for the most part. Throwing down a superblock of poorly constructed stupid shit is not urban. What is urban is what has happened in the North Corridor - thanks in part to Wayne State simply being there as a university - people and businesses have filled up existing spaces because of the viability of the area.

If they wanted to build a park they should have put it where the former Forest Apartments [[not to be confused with the Forest Arms) between Cass and Second on Forest. That building was by all accounts a Stalinist monstrosity and had to come down. So what did they do? Parking lot! Not just any parking lot - one that stretches from Second to Cass - an entire block. How urban! How vital to a 24/7 campus! Why not a parking structure and a park next to it?

So fuck you very much Wayne State. Ask for any money from me and I'll throw a brick at your stupid Welcome Center that you destroyed a block of businesses to build and it will probably fall down.

You have no idea what you're talking about. WSU is one of only three research universities in the state, and is actually higher ranked than MSU as a research medical school. Despite that fact, WSU tuition is the 3rd lowest of all public universities in Michigan. Undergraduate admissions standards are very low, which leads to the problems with retention. However, things have actually improved in recent years due to several programs aimed to help students who are ill-prepared for college to succeed.

The graduation rates are meaningless given the nature of WSU- many students, particularly minorities, go to school part time and thus the standard graduation timeline does not apply.

As a research university, WSU needs places on campus to host conferences. Currently the only place to do so [[McGregor) is old and woefully inadequate. Also, there is no hotel anywhere in the vicinity of midtown. So when out of town speakers at the university are invited, your choices are to put them up at the Inn on Ferry Street, which is very nice but small, or someplace downtown where they are nowhere near campus. There is noplace nearby that can accomadate even a moderately-sized conference. This does not reflect well on the university and makes it impossible to do the things WSU must do to increase its stature as a research university. U of M and Michigan State, our peers, have MULTIPLE conference centers.

So yeah, if you're an undergrad this project probably doesn't mean much, but to the overall university it means a lot.

**Pcm** · October-27-10, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

From UCCA Website:
Cass/Warren Dormitory Construction Underway
Located on Cass Avenue, between Warren and Hancock, this four story mixed-use development will offer 81 residential units geared toward student housing, as well as 6,000 sq/ft of ground floor commercial space. Most units will be one and two bedroom with a few four bedroom suites. Directly across the street from Wayne State’s Old Main, this building will offer close access to campus and local restaurants and institutions in the area.

[[note: these aren't actually dorms, and they are not a WSU project. This is a private development).

From the office of the Governor:
- City of Detroit - A five-story mixed-use commercial structure housing 10,000 square feet of retail space will rise on Cass Avenue near Warren at the heart of the Wayne State University campus in midtown Detroit, formerly a gas station site. The Detroit Brownfield Development Authority will use state and local tax capture of $429,998 to support the project which will create 64 residential suites in the upper four stories and 26 enclosed parking spaces. Total investment of $13 million is projected with 33 jobs created.

These are conflicting descriptions. The first, more recent description is 4 floors with 81 units and 6,000sq/ft of retail and the other is 5 floors with 64 units and 10,000sq/ft of retail. Is it possible that these are two different projects? Or has the plan just been modified?

These have to be two different projects. The site on Cass where the former Christian Science Reading room was just that, not a gas station as the second paragraph mentions.

bartock · October-27-10, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

From UCCA Website:
Cass/Warren Dormitory Construction Underway
Located on Cass Avenue, between Warren and Hancock, this four story mixed-use development will offer 81 residential units geared toward student housing, as well as 6,000 sq/ft of ground floor commercial space. Most units will be one and two bedroom with a few four bedroom suites. Directly across the street from Wayne State’s Old Main, this building will offer close access to campus and local restaurants and institutions in the area.

[[note: these aren't actually dorms, and they are not a WSU project. This is a private development).

From the office of the Governor:
- City of Detroit - A five-story mixed-use commercial structure housing 10,000 square feet of retail space will rise on Cass Avenue near Warren at the heart of the Wayne State University campus in midtown Detroit, formerly a gas station site. The Detroit Brownfield Development Authority will use state and local tax capture of $429,998 to support the project which will create 64 residential suites in the upper four stories and 26 enclosed parking spaces. Total investment of $13 million is projected with 33 jobs created.

These are conflicting descriptions. The first, more recent description is 4 floors with 81 units and 6,000sq/ft of retail and the other is 5 floors with 64 units and 10,000sq/ft of retail. Is it possible that these are two different projects? Or has the plan just been modified?

What used to be a gas station near Cass and Warren?

**Pcm** · October-27-10, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by drjeff

As a research university, WSU needs places on campus to host conferences. Currently the only place to do so [[McGregor) is old and woefully inadequate. Also, there is no hotel anywhere in the vicinity of midtown. So when out of town speakers at the university are invited, your choices are to put them up at the Inn on Ferry Street, which is very nice but small, or someplace downtown where they are nowhere near campus. There is noplace nearby that can accomadate even a moderately-sized conference. This does not reflect well on the university and makes it impossible to do the things WSU must do to increase its stature as a research university. U of M and Michigan State, our peers, have MULTIPLE conference centers.

Is it really so much that 2.5 miles down the street is a BIG established convention center? And, within walking distance from that are loads of hotels?

The only thing that building a hotel and convention center would do is poach business from existing hotels and convention centers. And if McGregor is so small and old and inadequate, why can't WSU demo and rebuild? In fact, on the McGregor website, it directs people to downtown for hotels and nightlife:

"When the sun goes down, the lights go up in Downtown Detroit. A favorite night spot is Greektown which dishes up specially prepared ethnic dinners and entertainment. The Renaissance Center and its towering 72-story Westin Hotel contain dozens of shops. The Detroit Symphony is one of the best venues for music and theatre with performances throughout the year. Live, professional entertainment abounds at the Fisher Theatre, Detroit Music Hall, and the Fox Theatre. Just 10 minutes from Downtown, via the international tunnel or bridge, is Detroit’s sister city in Canada, Windsor – a haven for shoppers."

http://busop.wayne.edu/mcgregor.php

From that paragraph, it seems to me that WSU is trying to be a good neighbor and promote the city. Why would they want to separate themselves from downtown?

Seriously. Two point five miles. Look it up. Your/WSU's position on this is silly.

**drjeff** · October-27-10, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by Pcm

Is it really so much that 2.5 miles down the street is a BIG established convention center? And, within walking distance from that are loads of hotels?

The only thing that building a hotel and convention center would do is poach business from existing hotels and convention centers. And if McGregor is so small and old and inadequate, why can't WSU demo and rebuild? In fact, on the McGregor website, it directs people to downtown for hotels and nightlife:

"When the sun goes down, the lights go up in Downtown Detroit. A favorite night spot is Greektown which dishes up specially prepared ethnic dinners and entertainment. The Renaissance Center and its towering 72-story Westin Hotel contain dozens of shops. The Detroit Symphony is one of the best venues for music and theatre with performances throughout the year. Live, professional entertainment abounds at the Fisher Theatre, Detroit Music Hall, and the Fox Theatre. Just 10 minutes from Downtown, via the international tunnel or bridge, is Detroit’s sister city in Canada, Windsor – a haven for shoppers."

http://busop.wayne.edu/mcgregor.php

From that paragraph, it seems to me that WSU is trying to be a good neighbor and promote the city. Why would they want to separate themselves from downtown?

Seriously. Two point five miles. Look it up. Your/WSU's position on this is silly.

And how do you propose a visitor to Detroit would get that 2.5 miles from hotel/entertainment area to WSU? The bus? Hell, I live here and I won't ride the bus.

Look, I love downtown. But I doubt a small hotel that is aimed toward housing people here to visit WSU will really affect downtown hotel business anyway. It will affect the ability of WSU to draw people here and see the city/university.

**Detroitnerd** · October-27-10, 01:37 PM

Am I out of line to think that WSU seems determined to build a suburban-style campus, and to destroy the city block by block if it gets in its way?

**French777** · October-27-10, 02:01 PM

There are students here from 49 states and over 70 countries. I believe a small hotel on campus would be an easier place for visting families to stay, versus driving or taking the bus downtown.

**Pcm** · October-27-10, 02:09 PM

Are you guys kidding? This has to be a joke.

If you and everyone else in the world is so afraid to take the city bus, TAKE A CAB. Also, I do believe that most respectable hotels have this super high tech secret experimental transit solution, called SHUTTLES.

I'm going to assume that none of you have ever left Detroit nor have you ever stayed in a hotel. That can be the only reason... because, good Lord, 2.5 miles is way too far for anyone to ever stray away from their home.

**Mackinaw** · October-28-10, 08:38 AM

What a tremendous waste of resources. Shame on Wayne. Build up one of your AMPLE vacant/parking lots and let Woodward be Woodward! ...Too late I guess.

**English** · October-28-10, 09:07 AM

They are not going to raze McGregor any time soon. It's a Minoru Yamasaki building. Good luck with that. It is also still beautiful in its own midcentury way -- I heard the former president of Mozambique speak there last week and remembered how much in awe of that place I was as a child growing up in the city.

WSU is listening to their constituents. Faculty and students, many [[if not most) of whom live in the 'burbs and commute, want more, better and newer parking. They tend to rush back up the Lodge, 75, and 94 after class and work, so that things are emptying out around 5-6 and are completely quiet after the night class ends. The folks I now work with gripe about the parking all the time -- they want more, newer, and better. If you want "urban fabric" in Midtown, you need people other than poor students, starving artists, and upper class folks who can afford a 200K loft or $1200+ rent who are willing to live within walking distance. Currently, Midtown doesn't offer those kinds of housing options.

**drjeff** · October-28-10, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by English

They are not going to raze McGregor any time soon. It's a Minoru Yamasaki building. Good luck with that. It is also still beautiful in its own midcentury way -- I heard the former president of Mozambique speak there last week and remembered how much in awe of that place I was as a child growing up in the city.

WSU is listening to their constituents. Faculty and students, many [[if not most) of whom live in the 'burbs and commute, want more, better and newer parking. They tend to rush back up the Lodge, 75, and 94 after class and work, so that things are emptying out around 5-6 and are completely quiet after the night class ends. The folks I now work with gripe about the parking all the time -- they want more, newer, and better. If you want "urban fabric" in Midtown, you need people other than poor students, starving artists, and upper class folks who can afford a 200K loft or $1200+ rent who are willing to live within walking distance. Currently, Midtown doesn't offer those kinds of housing options.

McGregor is a beautiful building and it can still be useful- it's just not really useful as a modern conference center.

Cobo is good for big conventions, but not really ideal for a meeting of 200-300 people or less, which would be typical of an academic conference. WSU currently has no great place for that sort of conference. Sure I could probably find space on campus to handle it the actual meeting, but where do these 200 people stay and how do they get to/from campus? Besides having crappy public transportation, Detroit also doesn't have much in the way of taxis. I would love to host something here in Detroit, but it would be a logistical nightmare. I'm sure I'm not alone.