Deconstruction at Woodward + Warren

**DetroitPlanner** · October-28-10, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by drjeff

McGregor is a beautiful building and it can still be useful- it's just not really useful as a modern conference center.

Cobo is good for big conventions, but not really ideal for a meeting of 200-300 people or less, which would be typical of an academic conference. WSU currently has no great place for that sort of conference. Sure I could probably find space on campus to handle it the actual meeting, but where do these 200 people stay and how do they get to/from campus? Besides having crappy public transportation, Detroit also doesn't have much in the way of taxis. I would love to host something here in Detroit, but it would be a logistical nightmare. I'm sure I'm not alone.

The RenCen, downtown Hotels, Casinos, and airport hotels all have meeting facilities that would work for meetings of that size. Why should the public sector be involved when the private sector already has a glut of this space?

WSU may not be able to handle it, but you sure can handle those things nearby at the DIA, Science Center, Rackham...... all have nice large meeting rooms with breakout areas.

**Pcm** · October-28-10, 10:21 AM

Planner, thank you for being on the side of rational thought.

Not much in the way of taxis, drjeff? Have you done research to support that vague anecdotal claim? Every time I've used a taxi within city limits, the rate has been fair, and their service on par with cabs in other cities. Please, cite examples.

To build redundant facilities [[hotels, conference centers) 2.5 miles from plenty of hotels and conference centers is a huge waste of money.

Westin [[Book Cadillac):
"The Westin Book Cadillac Detroit boasts more than 30,000 square feet of grand meeting and event spaces accommodating up to 1,000 guests."
http://www.bookcadillacwestin.com/wedding

Doubletree [[Fort Shelby):
Meeting capacity of up to 210 people.
http://doubletree.hilton.com/en/dt/h...tyhocn=DTTLFDT

Cobo:
Endless sized rooms to accommodate any size conference.
http://www.cobocenter.com/floor-plans.html

RenCen:
Can host from 12-250 people.
http://www.rencenmeetings.com/rooms/capacitychart/

Should I go on? Anyone with typing skills can search the internet for conference space. You cannot expect me to believe that there is no existing space for hotel guests and conference attendees, and no taxis, buses, or shuttles; so the University must build their own. The argument otherwise is absurd.

If this were a thriving town, I could see the rationale to justify building shit like his. Unfortunately, this is not a thriving town. There is NO DEMAND for more hotel and conference space. But who gives a shit? This thread isn't going to stop WSU from doing whatever the hell they want.

**casscorridor** · October-28-10, 11:31 AM

I'm not going to say I'm for it or against it, but I think the rational is that WSU wants a convention center and hotel directly across the street from the campus, and directly adjacent to a future light-rail station. I know anyone with a half a brain can get from Downtown hotels to Midtown via taxi or bus or shuttle, I think they understand that, but it doesn't change why they want the development. They want it because it's a status thing. Having a huge flashy development right next to the rail station across from the Welcome Center says something. It says "welcome, students from around the globe, to Wayne State and Detroit."

It seems very in-line with WSU's priorities... which seem to not be all about academics. Their top priority is boosting the status of the university, period. That means building new facilities, pumping money into research, private development and other things that are not directly benefiting the classroom experience. Like it or not, that is the University's agenda-- becoming a high status university.

Regardless of what you may think about Downtown, there are many people out there not familiar with Detroit that would prefer staying across the street from their destination than 2 miles away. I know its stupid, but at least understand where they are coming from. There will likely be many parents of students staying there that are uncomfortable with Detroit or any big city for that matter. Having a hotel across the street ensures 100% that they will have an easy care-free experience while visiting the campus. And this falls right in line with those priorities... i.e. attracting out-of-state and international students [[who will want to visit the campus before deciding to attend).

The hotel would also house doctors visiting the campus and the DMC, or visitors to CCS or other institutions, and the hotel would be a great choice for tourists wanting to experience all that the cultural center has to offer... museums, galleries, restaurants, shops, , etc. The center of Detroit's rebirth is taking place in Midtown, so having a hotel there makes sense, even though anyone with any common sense at all can easily get there from Downtown, especially after the light-rail is completed. But this is, again, in line with those priorities I mentioned, because it boosts the status of the university, brings the neighborhood closer to an 24/7 urban atmosphere.

The apartment component of the rumored plan also falls in line with those priorities because it offers modern apartments that are in short supply in the city, but that anyone from a functioning city would expect. They want to attract young educated professionals to live in the city, why else would they have built the studio one apartments? Overall, the rumored plan seems perfectly reasonable given the context and the priorities of the university, regardless of what any of us think.

**DetroitPlanner** · October-28-10, 12:44 PM

"Following the demolition of the aforementioned buildings most of the land will become an open green space with a meandering sidewalk that cuts across the property diagonally from Woodward to Warren. Other improvements will include site lighting, park benches, lawn irrigation, and planter beds for flowers and ornamental grasses, all of which will enhance this intersection as a major gateway to the campus.Following the demolition of the aforementioned buildings most of the land will become an open green space with a meandering sidewalk that cuts across the property diagonally from Woodward to Warren. Other improvements will include site lighting, park benches, lawn irrigation, and planter beds for flowers and ornamental grasses, all of which will enhance this intersection as a major gateway to the campus."

http://www.facilities.wayne.edu/projects/park.php

**drjeff** · October-28-10, 01:21 PM

You are missing my point completely. Of course there are places in Detroit to host a conference. The point is that if WSU wants to host a conference, currently that is not really feasible. WSU is a research university, and to attract grant dollars, there are things required that are not required of undergraduate-centered schools. Our peers are U of M and Michigan State, not the undergraduate schools in the rest of the state. Which brings up another point- just because you have a bachelors degree from some university, even if it is WSU, does not mean you have any clue what is "best" for the university. WSU does a lot more than educate undergrads. Hell, I don't teach undergrads at all, and I am full time faculty.

Pcm: You're saying if 200 people in midtown wanted to get downtown in any kind of a timely manner, that is possible with bus and taxis? I'm in midtown every day and I can count on one hand the numbers of taxis I see around here every day. It would be a total nightmare.

**DetroitPlanner** · October-28-10, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by drjeff

Our peers are U of M and Michigan State, not the undergraduate schools in the rest of the state. Which brings up another point- just because you have a bachelors degree from some university, even if it is WSU, does not mean you have any clue what is "best" for the university. WSU does a lot more than educate undergrads. Hell, I don't teach undergrads at all, and I am full time faculty.

U of M and MSU are in relative backwater places. There is nothing remotely like the Ren Cen Marriot, Book Cadillac, DIA, or casinos in the vicinity. Because of its location it has these meeting locations already available. Wayne has different priorities, and it should have different priorities. Besides my link to the WSU facility planning department does not mention ANYTHING about turning this into a hotel, conference center, or a Cheesecake Factory. It seems to me that it is you that has no clue what is 'best' for the univestity.

**BrushStart** · October-28-10, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by drjeff

You are missing my point completely. Of course there are places in Detroit to host a conference. The point is that if WSU wants to host a conference, currently that is not really feasible. WSU is a research university, and to attract grant dollars, there are things required that are not required of undergraduate-centered schools. Our peers are U of M and Michigan State, not the undergraduate schools in the rest of the state. Which brings up another point- just because you have a bachelors degree from some university, even if it is WSU, does not mean you have any clue what is "best" for the university. WSU does a lot more than educate undergrads. Hell, I don't teach undergrads at all, and I am full time faculty.

Pcm: You're saying if 200 people in midtown wanted to get downtown in any kind of a timely manner, that is possible with bus and taxis? I'm in midtown every day and I can count on one hand the numbers of taxis I see around here every day. It would be a total nightmare.

I am in complete agreement with you. I have no connection to WSU, but anything that WSU can do to up its prestige and visibility is great for Detroit. If that means building a hotel/conference center in midtown, so be it. WSU is a critical component in reshaping Detroit. Every major city has a flagship university. In New York, it's NYU, in Chicago, it's UofC. For Detroit, UofD Mercy is a great school, but it is not on par with Wayne. WSU is the only major research institution in Michigan that feeds most of its talent into the local market. It is also generates a lot of economic activity and spurs cutting-edge developments through research and grant work, e.g. TechTown. WSU is NOT comparable to Michigan's other public "directional" universities, of which I am a graduate. Because of its grad programs, WSU already eclipses those schools. Wayne should do everything it can to close the gap between it and UofM AA and MSU. I know that WSU has done a lot in terms of shedding its reputation as a commuter campus. On-campus student populations increase the educational environment, which is why UofM AA has a policy against students living off campus their Freshman year.

The importance of WSU growing as a premier research institution cannot be understated. A powerful university can do more for a city than virtually any other kind of institution. Universities are multi-faceted and bring a diverse range of benefits to their host cities. Look no further than the Wayne grads that have had a tremendous impact on Detroit in terms of business and culture. Employers feed on top-notch universities, and major employers drive cities forward. Building up WSU will help attract more world-class talent, which will have a collateral effect on the quality of our hospitals, emerging business sectors, and new high-tech industries. So, I say, let Wayne do what Wayne wants. If a few old buildings in midtown have to get axed to build a modern hotel/conference center, I'm all for it.

**drjeff** · October-28-10, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

U of M and MSU are in relative backwater places. There is nothing remotely like the Ren Cen Marriot, Book Cadillac, DIA, or casinos in the vicinity. Because of its location it has these meeting locations already available. Wayne has different priorities, and it should have different priorities. Besides my link to the WSU facility planning department does not mention ANYTHING about turning this into a hotel, conference center, or a Cheesecake Factory. It seems to me that it is you that has no clue what is 'best' for the univestity.

I was, in fact, responding to others here who were outraged at the mere idea that WSU might want to build a small hotel near campus. It's not my job to plan such things. But I think it's a good idea.

**rbdetsport** · October-28-10, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Ststannies

First of all, most of the space that's coming down has been vacant for some time and those buildings were nothing notable from an architectural standpoint...so they weren't worth saving. The University plans to put up a high-rise and high-visibilty building that will have restaurant and retail spaces on the first 2 floors around a sky-lit atruim. The portion of the buildiung facing Warren will have 12 additional floors devoted to a hotel and, current plans are for the Woorward side to be topped with 28 additional floors of apartments. The development will also include a parking deck in the back for the residences and hotel guests. From my perspective as a native and current Detroit resident and WSU graduate, the university should be thanked for taking on such an active role in redeveloping its campus and the are around it. The resurrenction of lower Cass Ave would never have happened without the uniiveristy being there to anchor it all. Thak you Wayne State!!!!

Ststannies, can you give us a source of where you got this from? It seems to many that you pulled this news out of your ass.

**ElCorridor** · November-04-10, 10:54 AM

So, it looks like the development across from Old Main on Cass where the former Scientist Church was located will be a student/public housing project call "The Union". Currently, a elevator tower is up on the site with further construction.

Can't say I'm thrilled with the design, but anything other than another bare plot of land is preferred on that site IMHO.

Here's the link: http://www.unionmidtown.com/

**Pcm** · November-04-10, 11:12 AM

Very Troy-esque.

Better than nothing, though.

**casscorridor** · November-08-10, 02:59 PM

I sorta like the design. Better than Studio One, at least there is brick. The fake balconies are stupid, but I like the scale of the building and the shops on the bottom. Hopefully more buildings like this will be built, as in small to medium scale buildings with apartments on top and stores on the bottom, nothing too tall, but also nothing under three stories. The facade is only of aesthetic importance, what is really important is whether or not the building conforms to the "rules" of urbanism.

**Gistok** · November-08-10, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by BrushStart

[[snip)
So, I say, let Wayne do what Wayne wants.
[[snip)

Unfortunately WSU has always wanted to do exactly what they wanted... but there have been voices of reason to counter that...

If WSU had always done what they wanted, then the David MacKenzie House [[19th Century Queen Anne style historic home of Wayne's first president) would today be a storm drain.... and Old Main would likely be a parking lot....

It's good to know that WSU has NOT always been able to do what they wanted... it prevented the campus from looking like the sprawling suburban Oakland Unversity campus plopped down in the heart of Midtown.

However... that said... I'm not against a hotel in the campus.

**ekleezy** · December-02-16, 04:08 PM

I was looking through google street view a little while ago and noticed the buildings on this corner disappearing a few years ago. Has anyone heard anything recently about plans for this location? It seems hard to believe that WSU wants to leave it as it currently is. If they want it to permanently be a green space I'd think they would at least add a few trees.

**SpartanDawg** · December-02-16, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by ekleezy

I was looking through google street view a little while ago and noticed the buildings on this corner disappearing a few years ago. Has anyone heard anything recently about plans for this location? It seems hard to believe that WSU wants to leave it as it currently is. If they want it to permanently be a green space I'd think they would at least add a few trees.

recently at an event at UM someone giving a presentation stated they predict something like a 20+ tower on the site