Unemployment Benefits in Michigan will cease.

[guito13]

Well... If you are 31 now you could have at most been eligible for unemployment benefits for 12 years. That's assuming you went to work full time the day you turned 18.

I started college when 17, worked 2-3 jobs during that time. Actually started working at age 13 with a paper route :-)

Sounds like a silly way to think about it. Do you feel the same way about pensions?

What is a pension? We dont get those nowadays.

[guito13]

I've also heard this viewpoint a thousand times - - - until the person voicing it was laid off, disposed of by an employer, lost their business and medical coverage. Then the crying begins. We used to have a quality called 'empathy', and another called 'understanding', in our social fabric. No longer.

I believe my post you quoted showed empathy. I have family memebers who have lost their houses, jobs, livelyhood and I am very aware of the struggles. Should we as a society just be empathetic to the point where we just help everyone with any of their problems? There is a fine line there.

[guito13]

Simply put:

You and your employer pay into your unemployment insurance, if you go on unemployment, you should work because we can't have you get your unemployment without "earning it."

But big banksters, masters of unearned income, who fuck up on the job and drive themselves into the abyss of bankruptcy, need our help to ensure their continued ability to earn income off of other people.

Neat, huh?

Nerd, I am in lockstep with your dislike of the big-business types who got bailed out. Never did agree with how they handled that and have made my opinion know to the lawmakers and anyone I can mention. We all have a vote and I will use mine [[and try to have others use theirs) to make them realize that we are paying attention and we DONT like what we have seen.

[Detroitnerd]

Should we as a society just be empathetic to the point where we just help everyone with any of their problems? There is a fine line there.

Well, we're able to come to the aid of the richest and most powerful, aren't we? I think we have it bass-ackwards.

[lincoln8740]

Simple question then:

How long should unemployment benefits go on for a consecutive period?

5 years, 10 years?

Guessing ghettopalmetto"s over/ under will be twenty years.

[Detroitnerd]

Nerd, I am in lockstep with your dislike of the big-business types who got bailed out. Never did agree with how they handled that and have made my opinion know to the lawmakers and anyone I can mention. We all have a vote and I will use mine [[and try to have others use theirs) to make them realize that we are paying attention and we DONT like what we have seen.

I applaud your sentiments. I wish we had a party to vote for that wasn't already bought and paid-for, though.

[ghettopalmetto]

Simple question then:

How long should unemployment benefits go on for a consecutive period?

I don't know that it should be a set period of time. I do know that right now, we're facing a special set of temporary circumstances, and if we force people into destitution [[not that collecting unemploymen provides a glamorous lifestyle), then it threatens the economic recovery as well as future employment prospects. This short-term penny-pinching is going to have long-term consequences.

[Retroit]

A few points:

• The whole justification for "saving the banks" was that if it were not done, it would impose a hardship on the whole economy, thus many little guys. Now, if the Democrats were pushing for the bail-outs because they wanted to help the filthy rich, they should have told us.
• Unemployment benefits come from: 1. the employee, 2. the employer, and 3. other employees and employers who pay into the pot. Your unemployment check is not paid out of a fund specifically reserved and paid into by you, but rather from the current funds contributed by those recently employed and their employers.
• No one should be reluctant to receive unemployment. You didn't have an opportunity to decline putting money in; you shouldn't decline taking it out. It's your money -- or at least some of it is.
• Yes, as some of you rationally figured out, I was not suggesting that unemployed be deprived of income as they slaved away in the coal mines. Simpler tasks like picking up litter, shoveling snow, tutoring students, etc. a couple days a week is what I had in mind.
• Last I checked, I was a "he". And, yes, I am a brilliant fucker, or so I've been told. Thank you.

[guito13]

Well, we're able to come to the aid of the richest and most powerful, aren't we? I think we have it bass-ackwards.

Aye, the hard working man/woman should be helped. I just want some way to know that my contribution is only helping the people who try to help themselves, i guess that is too much to ask sometimes.

[guito13]

A few points:

• The whole justification for "saving the banks" was that if it were not done, it would impose a hardship on the whole economy, thus many little guys. Now, if the Democrats were pushing for the bail-outs because they wanted to help the filthy rich, they should have told us.
• Unemployment benefits come from: 1. the employee, 2. the employer, and 3. other employees and employers who pay into the pot. Your unemployment check is not paid out of a fund specifically reserved and paid into by you, but rather from the current funds contributed by those recently employed and their employers.
• No one should be reluctant to receive unemployment. You didn't have an opportunity to decline putting money in; you shouldn't decline taking it out. It's your money -- or at least some of it is.
• Yes, as some of you rationally figured out, I was not suggesting that unemployed be deprived of income as they slaved away in the coal mines. Simpler tasks like picking up litter, shoveling snow, tutoring students, etc. a couple days a week is what I had in mind.
• Last I checked, I was a "he". And, yes, I am a brilliant fucker, or so I've been told. Thank you.

I just wasnt sure of your sex and didnt want to be called sexist [[or racist as it usually comes to that on this board lol) however I never called you brilliant

[Detroitnerd]

The whole justification for "saving the banks" was that if it were not done, it would impose a hardship on the whole economy, thus many little guys. Now, if the Democrats were pushing for the bail-outs because they wanted to help the filthy rich, they should have told us.

Which was all bipartisan, red-white-and-blue bullshit. If there had to be a bailout, it should have been bought something: At the least, regulation and transparency; at medium, controlling stock or markdowns or bankruptcy; at most, outright nationalization.

Instead, we get shtupped in the tochas and Washington and Wall Street party. This was the most egregious example of corporate welfare we've witnessed yet. And now that they've hosed us so completely, we're all supposed to instead focus on those greedy people who want unemployment checks? Cheese-it.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "The real story here is Danny running an independent film business."

Brilliant...

[1KielsonDrive]

I believe my post you quoted showed empathy. I have family memebers who have lost their houses, jobs, livelyhood and I am very aware of the struggles. Should we as a society just be empathetic to the point where we just help everyone with any of their problems? There is a fine line there.

My answer to your question is YES. That doesn't mean helping every individual everytime there is a problem. It means helping the large segments of our society that are most in need. What is the 'American Dream'? Betterment of it's citizens. Opportunity for it's citizens. Where is the betterment? The opportunity?

[1KielsonDrive]

Aye, the hard working man/woman should be helped. I just want some way to know that my contribution is only helping the people who try to help themselves, i guess that is too much to ask sometimes.

How will you ever determine that? How do you know for sure? One very important way to know is to compare societies. Who has the best safety nets? Who offers the best educational opportunities? Who has the best economic standards across the board? Not, the most riches, rich people, rich companies, popular culture, etc.

[iheartthed]

I started college when 17, worked 2-3 jobs during that time. Actually started working at age 13 with a paper route :-)

Well, if you didn't work a single job for the minimum time required to collect benefits AND make earn the minimum amount in wages necessary to collect benefits, then you would not be eligible. I doubt that you worked a job to qualify before you turned 18. And since you cannot collect unemployment benefits while you are a full time student, and you have suggested that you were a full time student at 17, then at the earliest you were eligible for unemployment when you were 19... Twelve years ago.

[guito13]

How will you ever determine that? How do you know for sure? One very important way to know is to compare societies. Who has the best safety nets? Who offers the best educational opportunities? Who has the best economic standards across the board? Not, the most riches, rich people, rich companies, popular culture, etc.

Drug testing, Verification of job searching activities, verification that any resources given are being used appropriately [[i.e. if given money to go to school, make sure person is attending/doing well).

Maybe it boils down to the age old debate of the true nature of humans, are we inherently good/hardworking or opportunistic/lazy, obviously I lean more torwards the latter.

[1KielsonDrive]

Simple question then:

How long should unemployment benefits go on for a consecutive period?

5 years, 10 years?

Guessing ghettopalmetto"s over/ under will be twenty years.

I'll answer this one. Indefinitely! As long as our society isn't doing its job and providing benefits [[education, employment, etc.) to its citizens, then it should support them in various ways, including income. If there is a threat to our system by way of a revolution, or some other type of insurrection, you better believe that the 'powers that be', ie; our entrenched 'political class', will be jumping through hoops to kill or buy off the opposition. And it won't be because they have any care or concern for the less fortunate, it'll be because they are concerned about their own assess. Why do you think the police establishment in our country has now become part of the military establishment?

[1KielsonDrive]

Which was all bipartisan, red-white-and-blue bullshit. If there had to be a bailout, it should have been bought something: At the least, regulation and transparency; at medium, controlling stock or markdowns or bankruptcy; at most, outright nationalization.

Instead, we get shtupped in the tochas and Washington and Wall Street party. This was the most egregious example of corporate welfare we've witnessed yet. And now that they've hosed us so completely, we're all supposed to instead focus on those greedy people who want unemployment checks? Cheese-it.

Good point. The old 'divide and conquer' routine. Keep the masses focused on Michael and Brittany while the Foxes [[???) are raiding the henhouse.

[1KielsonDrive]

Drug testing, Verification of job searching activities, verification that any resources given are being used appropriately [[i.e. if given money to go to school, make sure person is attending/doing well).

Maybe it boils down to the age old debate of the true nature of humans, are we inherently good/hardworking or opportunistic/lazy, obviously I lean more torwards the latter.

We don't even verify what corporations are doing with their money. How much taxes they owe and pay. If they are following guilelines - BP and their wells are the latest example. What does your senator do with his/her funds and contributions? Now, corporations don't have to account for their lobbying expenses, thanks to the Supreme Heroes. Why should working class people be any different than the rich and powerful in their 'verifications' and 'requirements'?

[guito13]

We don't even verify what corporations are doing with their money. How much taxes they owe and pay. If they are following guilelines - BP and their wells are the latest example. What does your senator do with his/her funds and contributions? Now, corporations don't have to account for their lobbying expenses, thanks to the Supreme Heroes. Why should working class people be any different than the rich and powerful in their 'verifications' and 'requirements'?

This thread is about unemployment and thats what I am speaking to. I think the other side should be held to the same level of accountability, if not more.

[1KielsonDrive]

Drug testing, Verification of job searching activities, verification that any resources given are being used appropriately [[i.e. if given money to go to school, make sure person is attending/doing well).

Maybe it boils down to the age old debate of the true nature of humans, are we inherently good/hardworking or opportunistic/lazy, obviously I lean more torwards the latter.

Let's all verify what happened to the pallets of billions of dollars swiped by some one riding a donkey in Iraq during the Bush administration. Let's all try to verify what happened with billions of dollars swiped by someone in Afghanistan recently, which our 'free press' is barely reporting. Let's all try to verify what happened to billions of dollars paid to Blackwater for security [[para-military, mercenary) in countries around the world, on behalf of the US government.

[1KielsonDrive]

Drug testing, Verification of job searching activities, verification that any resources given are being used appropriately [[i.e. if given money to go to school, make sure person is attending/doing well).

Maybe it boils down to the age old debate of the true nature of humans, are we inherently good/hardworking or opportunistic/lazy, obviously I lean more torwards the latter.

I'll go along with 'what is good for the goose is good for the gander', anytime a rich wall street banker, corporate executive, politician and church leader is held to the same standard as I am.

[Retroit]

I just wasnt sure of your sex and didnt want to be called sexist [[or racist as it usually comes to that on this board lol) however I never called you brilliant

Well ghettopimento did, and I'm not about to let it pass unnoticed.

[Retroit]

What is the 'American Dream'? Betterment of it's citizens. Opportunity for it's citizens. Where is the betterment? The opportunity?
...
As long as our society isn't doing its job and providing benefits [[education, employment, etc.) to its citizens, then it should support them in various ways, including income.

I have a different understanding of the American Dream. I don't think of America as a country that is obligated -- or who's government is obligated -- to provide for people. I look at it as a land of opportunity where people can choose their level of success based on how willing they are to work for it. My ideal for America is not a welfare agency, but a piece of land where people can live in freedom unencumbered by oppressive monarchs, tyrants, and Democrats. Businesses are born out of the will, desires, and needs of the people. If you don't think that businesses are doing a good enough job serving the people, start your own business in competition with them and put them out of business. This, too, is part of the American Dream.

If there is a threat to our system by way of a revolution, or some other type of insurrection, you better believe that the 'powers that be', ie; our entrenched 'political class', will be jumping through hoops to kill or buy off the opposition. And it won't be because they have any care or concern for the less fortunate, it'll be because they are concerned about their own assess. Why do you think the police establishment in our country has now become part of the military establishment?

So you would prefer that revolutionists and insurrectionists not be inhibited by the entrenched "political class"? Would this be a Socialist or Communist Revolution by chance? If our way of life was threatened to be replaced by something akin to the abomination that existed in the USSR, I would gladly accept the assistance of every corrupt capitalist, every corrupt politician, and every corrupt police or military establishment to prevent it.

[Detroitnerd]

Speaking of the American Dream, here's George Carlin's take on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1...eature=related